Radeon 8500 -> FireGL 8500 (help needed)

JCLW · Nov 15, 2002, 08:19 PM

I know that not everyone will want to run the FireGL driver because you'll take a 5~10% performance hit in games but for those of us running professional 3D apps the idea of running the FireGL drivers on an overclocked $100 128mb 8500LE and getting the same (or better) performance as a $300 FireGL 8800 sounds good.

A bunch of us have been working on it over here but we've hit a bit of a wall with the Win2000 version. KlaasBaas has a working WinXP version.

In a nutshell, FireGL 8X00 cards have a device ID of 5148. Radeon 8500 cards have a device ID of 514C. The drivers normally check to see if there is a "5148" card in the system. We are modifying the FireGL drivers to check for a "514C" card instead by doing the following:

For the Win2000 driver:
In fglrx.inf:
In [ATI.Mfg] section added: "ATI Fire GL 8500 Video Accelerator=FGLRX,PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_514C"

In fglrxgl.dll:
@offset 0x000CAE88 changed "48" to "4C" (device ID check)

In fglrxm.sys:
@offset 0x00000130 changed "30" to "B4" (checksum)
@offset 0x00000130 changed "0A" to "09" (checksum)
@offset 0x00042034 changed "48" to "4C" (device ID check)
@offset 0x00042036 changed "80" to "00" (device ID check)

The WinXP driver mod is much the same.

When modded, the XP driver works fine, but the Win2000 driver will not complete the install (for unknown reasons - it just says "Could not complete the installation - Set your video mode to stadard VGA and try again"

or something to that effect).

As you can read everything at the rage3d thread I won't repeat it all here.

I was hoping that since people here obviously are pretty good with drivers someone might lend a hand.

Cheers,
- JW

BTW I like the smilies.

digitalwanderer · Nov 15, 2002, 11:11 PM

...more in the .inf file that needs changing? I don't know squat about fireGL and such, and I'm not the best with .inf modding, but I thought you had to add a couple of lines to the inf. I'll have to poke around and get back to ya, if not by tomorrow sometime feel free to bump the thread and remind me. (I forget, sorry.

)

Vampyromaniac · Nov 16, 2002, 01:28 AM

Hmm, how would the actual FireGl compare to a regular 8500 in games?

EDIT: bah email-noification !!!

JCLW · Nov 16, 2002, 09:24 AM

5~10% slower in DirectX games. 20% faster in OpenGL games.

JCLW · Nov 24, 2002, 05:54 PM

Anyone?

Tangent: Those popups you get when you go to www.driverheaven.com by mistake are anoying.

- JW

Forge · Dec 7, 2002, 12:58 PM

Has anyone done any further research into a hard mod or BIOS mod?

If all it's checking is the PCI ID, that should be really easy to hack up.

RIV@NVX · Dec 7, 2002, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Forge
Has anyone done any further research into a hard mod or BIOS mod?

If all it's checking is the PCI ID, that should be really easy to hack up.

I can try, but you will test. OK?
I don't need that, so if anyone wants to test, I will make it.
Do you want me to use BBA 7.008 BIOS I have or yours one?
If yours, please send it to me.
Also, please mention PCI IDs for FireGL.

JCLW · Dec 7, 2002, 04:18 PM

Vendor ID is 1002 (ATI)

Device IDs:
Radeon 8500 is 514C
FireGL 8500 is 5148

- JW

JCLW · Dec 7, 2002, 04:52 PM

Here's the whole list

Code:

1002	ATI Technologies
	4158	68800AX Mach 32
	4242	Radeon 8500 DV Edition
	4243	Lucent OHCI IEEE1394 Host Controller
	4336	Radeon Mobility U1
	4354	215CT222 Mach 64 CT
	4358	210888CX Mach64 CX
	4554	Mach64 ET
	4654	Mach64 VT
	4742	ATI GTC (GT-C2U2) ATI 3D Rage Pro Turbo AGP 2X
	4744	Rage 3D Pro AGP 1x
	4747	Rage 3D Pro
	4749	Rage Pro Turbo PCI ATI ALL IN WONDER PRO (8MB)
	474C	Rage XC PCI-66
	474D	Rage XL AGP 2x
	474E	Rage XC AGP 2x
	474F	Rage XL PCI-66
	4750	Rage 3D Pro PCI Graphics Accelerator
	4751	Rage 3D Pro PCI
	4752	Rage XL PCI
	4753	Rage XC PCI
	4754	Mach 64 GT Rage 3D II Graphics Accelerator
	4755	Rage 3D II+
	4756	Rage 3D IIC PCI Graphics Accelerator
	4757	3D 11C AGP Rage 3D IIC AGP
	4758	210888GX Mach 64 GX (WinTurbo)
	4759	Rage 3D IIC
	475A	Rage 3D IIC AGP
	4966	Radeon RV250
	496E	Radeon RV250 Secondary
	4C42	Rage 3D LT Pro AGP 133 MHz
	4C44	Rage 3D LT Pro AGP 66 MHz
	4C45	Rage Mobility M3 AGP
	4C46	Mobility M3 AGP 2x
	4C47	Rage 3D LT-G
	4C49	Rage 3D LT Pro PCI
	4C4D	01541014 Rage P/M Mobility AGP 2x
	4C4E	Rage L Mobility AGP 2x
	4C50	Rage 3D LT Pro PCI
	4C51	Rage 3D LT Pro PCI
	4C52	Rage P/M Mobility PCI
	4C53	Rage L Mobility PCI
	4C54	Mach 64 LT
	4C57	Radeon Mobility M6 LW
	4C58	FireGL Mobility
	4C59	Mobility 6 Radeon Mobility M6 LY
	4C5A	Radeon Mobility M6 LZ
	4C64	Radeon Mobility M9-GL
	4C66	Radeon Mobility M9
	4D46	Rage Mobility 128 AGP 4x
	4D4C	Rage Mobility 128 AGP
	4E44	R300 Radeon 9700 Pro
	4E64	Radeon 9700 Series - Secondary
	5041	Rage 128 Pro PA PCI
	5042	Rage 128 Pro PB AGP 2x
	5043	Rage 128 Pro PC AGP 4x
	5044	Rage 128 Pro PD PCI
	5045	Rage 128 Pro PE AGP 2x
	5046	Rage 128 Pro PF AGP 4x
	5047	Rage 128 Pro PG PCI
	5048	Rage 128 Pro PH AGP  Rage 128 Pro PH AGP 2x
	5049	Rage 128 Pro PI AGP  Rage 128 Pro PI AGP 4x
	504A	Rage 128 Pro PJ PCI Rage 128 Pro PJ PCI (TMDS)
	504B	Rage 128 Pro PK AGP  Rage 128 Pro PK AGP 2x (TMDS)
	504C	Rage 128 Pro PL AGP  Rage 128 Pro PL AGP 4x (TMDS)
	504D	Rage 128 Pro PM PCI Rage 128 Pro PM PCI
	504E	Rage 128 Pro PN AGP  Rage 128 Pro PN AGP 2x
	504F	Rage 128 Pro PO AGP  Rage 128 Pro PO AGP 4x
	5050	Rage 128 Pro PP PCI Rage 128 Pro PP PCI (TMDS)
	5051	Rage 128 Pro PQ AGP  Rage 128 Pro PQ AGP 2x (TMDS)
	5052	Rage 128 Pro PR AGP  Rage 128 Pro PR AGP 4x (TMDS)
	5053	Rage 128 Pro PS PCI Rage 128 Pro PS PCI
	5054	Rage 128 Pro PT AGP  Rage 128 Pro PT AGP 2x
	5055	Rage 128 Pro PU AGP  Rage 128 Pro PU AGP 4x
	5056	Rage 128 Pro PV PCI Rage 128 Pro PV PCI (TMDS)
	5057	Rage 128 Pro PW AGP  Rage 128 Pro PW AGP 2x (TMDS)
	5058	Rage 128 Pro PX AGP  Rage 128 Pro PX AGP 4x (TMDS)
	5144	Radeon 7200 / Radeon
	5145	Radeon QE
	5146	Radeon QF
	5147	Radeon QG
	5148	Radeon R200 QH FireGL 8700/8800
	5149	Radeon R200 QI
	514A	Radeon R200 QJ
	514B	Radeon R200 QK
	514C	Radeon R200 QL Radeon 8500
	514E	Radeon R200 QM
	514F	Radeon R200 QN
	5157	RV200 Radeon 7500
	5158	Radeon 7500 QX
	5159	Radeon VE QY Radeon 7000 / Radeon VE
	515A	Radeon VE QZ
	5168	Radeon R200 Qh
	5169	Radeon R200 Qi
	516A	Radeon R200 Qj
	516B	Radeon R200 Qk
	516C	Radeon 8500 / 8500LE
	5245	Rage 128 GL PCI
	5246	Rage 128 GL AGP 2x Rage Fury 16/32MB
	5247	Rage 128 RG
	524B	Rage 128 VR RK PCI
	524C	Rage 128 VR RL AGP 2x
	5345	Rage 128 4x SE PCI
	5346	Rage 128 SF 4x AGP 2x
	5347	Rage 128 SG 4x AGP 4x
	5348	Rage 128 4x SH
	534B	Rage 128 SK PCI Rage 128 4x SK PCI
	534C	Rage 128 SL AGP 2x Rage 128 4x SL AGP 2x
	534D	Rage 128 SM AGP 4x Rage 128 4x SM AGP 4x
	534E	Rage 128 4x
	5354	Mach 64 ST
	5446	Rage 128 PRO ULTRA
	544C	Rage 128 Pro TL
	5452	Rage 128 Pro TR
	5455	Rage 128 Pro Ultra TU
	5654	215VT222 Mach 64 VT VIDEO XPRESSION
	5655	Mach 64 VT3
	5656	Mach 64 VT4 PCI
	700F	PCI to AGP Bridge
	CAB0	CPU to PCI Bridge

- JW

RIV@NVX · Dec 7, 2002, 05:23 PM

OK, will be done for tomorrow (I don't have time to do it this moment).
I will use my 7.008 BIOS, you will test.
OK?

JCLW · Dec 9, 2002, 10:28 PM

Oh well.

There go the posts.

Anyways, I'll probably exchange the card next weekend unless I figure out a way to fix it before that.

- JW

Forge · Dec 18, 2002, 04:29 AM

RIV@NVX - When you have it running, let me know. My 9700 Pro will be here soon, and if it works on 8500->8800, it just might work on 9700->X1.

If you get a BIOS, I'll find an 8500 to test with somehow.

RIV@NVX · Dec 18, 2002, 06:58 AM

Too bad that if you try you will screw up your card.
Don't try this, it will probably not work because of ASIC code on card that differs from modded BIOS.

merry · Dec 18, 2002, 07:12 AM

Could you possibly edit an 8500 .rom bios file, changing 514C -> 5148 ?

But you should also change the checksum(s), they're also written in the bios.

I think they have some info on bios at radeon2.ru, but I don't understand Russian. You could have a try, Riv@, should be closer to Croatian than to Romanian.

Anyway, if this doesn't work, whoever tries it would be in trouble prima.

Chrille · Dec 18, 2002, 08:15 AM

Does this work. It would be great if it did. Is it possible to run the firegl drivers on radeon 8500 without to change the bios.

JCLW · Dec 18, 2002, 10:08 AM

The BIOS mod didn't work for me, so be careful if you play with it. I had to exchange my card. Actually I still have to exchange it - hopefully I'll have time later today.

If you run WinXP there are working modified drivers (latest version - modified by KlaasBaas over at Rage3D). Let me know if you want them and I will host.

There is no working set of the modified latest Win2000 drivers.

- JW

RIV@NVX · Dec 18, 2002, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by merry
Could you possibly edit an 8500 .rom bios file, changing 514C -> 5148 ?

But you should also change the checksum(s), they're also written in the bios.

I think they have some info on bios at radeon2.ru, but I don't understand Russian. You could have a try, Riv@, should be closer to Croatian than to Romanian.

Anyway, if this doesn't work, whoever tries it would be in trouble prima.

Hey hey, I can' read cyrilic

SOLUTION DOESN'T WORK (at least didn't in JCLW's case).

threedee · Dec 21, 2002, 07:22 PM

Could someone point me to these hacked drivers?

I am very interested in trying them out but can't seem to find anywhere to download them : (

Thanks

RIV@NVX · Dec 21, 2002, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JCLW
I know that not everyone will want to run the FireGL driver because you'll take a 5~10% performance hit in games but for those of us running professional 3D apps the idea of running the FireGL drivers on an overclocked $100 128mb 8500LE and getting the same (or better) performance as a $300 FireGL 8800 sounds good.

A bunch of us have been working on it over here but we've hit a bit of a wall with the Win2000 version. KlaasBaas has a working WinXP version.

In a nutshell, FireGL 8X00 cards have a device ID of 5148. Radeon 8500 cards have a device ID of 514C. The drivers normally check to see if there is a "5148" card in the system. We are modifying the FireGL drivers to check for a "514C" card instead by doing the following:

For the Win2000 driver:
In fglrx.inf:
In [ATI.Mfg] section added: "ATI Fire GL 8500 Video Accelerator=FGLRX,PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_514C"

In fglrxgl.dll:
@offset 0x000CAE88 changed "48" to "4C" (device ID check)

In fglrxm.sys:
@offset 0x00000130 changed "30" to "B4" (checksum)
@offset 0x00000130 changed "0A" to "09" (checksum)
@offset 0x00042034 changed "48" to "4C" (device ID check)
@offset 0x00042036 changed "80" to "00" (device ID check)

The WinXP driver mod is much the same.

When modded, the XP driver works fine, but the Win2000 driver will not complete the install (for unknown reasons - it just says "Could not complete the installation - Set your video mode to stadard VGA and try again" or something to that effect).

As you can read everything at the rage3d thread I won't repeat it all here.

I was hoping that since people here obviously are pretty good with drivers someone might lend a hand.

Cheers,
- JW

BTW I like the smilies.

threedee · Dec 22, 2002, 10:23 AM

Excellent!! Found the driver and my 8500 (now 8800 !!) works great!!

You people who made these drivers possible have made me a happy man indeed!!

Thankyou very much!

Zarathustra · Dec 22, 2002, 11:16 AM

Heh very cool. I think I'll try this out on the 8500 in my server (which doesn't get used for games obviously)

UPDATE: Yes these do work even under .NET Server. Now I must find a working Control Panel for them...

JCLW · Dec 22, 2002, 07:57 PM

I take it you guys are both using the WinXP 3046 driver?

- JW

JCLW · Dec 22, 2002, 08:53 PM

The 3051 drivers are out so I'll have a go at them when I get my Xmas shopping done.

- JW

Zarathustra · Dec 22, 2002, 11:23 PM

I'm using whatever version was linked to in the Rage3D thread that had the modified files bundled with it. Any idea what Control Panel I should use with em? None of the FireGL pages at ATI link to a separate Control Panel.

JCLW · Dec 23, 2002, 01:12 AM

It didn't install a control panel?

Try installing the latest regular control panel.

- JW

Zarathustra · Dec 23, 2002, 12:29 PM

Ok the control panel from the Cat2.5 set works, but there aren't any FireGL specific options. I thought they'd have something to enable specific Maya, 3DMax, etc settings.

JCLW · Dec 23, 2002, 01:42 PM

They should... maybe you grabbed an older driver.

I just finished the 3051 install packages, but I havn't tried them yet. As always, at your own risk:
FireGL 8500 win2k.3051
FireGL 8500 winXP.3051

- JW