[BWX]

[color=red]EDIT ZARDON: This thread is a SPLIT thread from Cat Makers feedback thread - in the interests of helping ATI help you all, all discussion, ranting and debates will be held in this thread so the main thread for offering feedback will remain easier to follow for ATI.[/color]

Originally Posted by gialitt

good grief, this thing is so alpha!

i quickly killed it off and went back to the old one like many others. i for one have hard time resolving how these packages end up bloating system (and usually) system tray with tentacles, acting finicky with ill disposition at every juncture and what's more outrageous - limited functionality to boot. it's supposed to provide more user control not more poseur bell & whstles -- in practice it's actually more difficult to navigate these controls - IMO anything but useful OR user friendly.

That's a good way to sum up my feelings about the CCC without getting too "crass".. It is frustrating though, it seems when you have a complaint, many people just want to argue with you and defend the CCC to the ends of the earth.

This thread gives me a lot of hope for the CCC though. Hopefully ATI will actually make the things we all want happen, fix the annoying problems, and add the functionality that the CCC is supposed to bring, when sadly it actually reduces it.

*crossing fingers about CCC while contemplating installing SP2..

[Zardon]

Originally Posted by BWX

*crossing fingers about CCC while contemplating installing SP2..

Well I know you dont like CCC but its worked fine with SP2 and 1.1 .net.

[_leech_]

My one real suggestion:

Rewrite CCC in win32/MFC/WTL or any multiplatform GUI toolkit like Qt or wxWidgets. Unless something is demonstrated that absolutly has to rely on .NET and can't be done using a stable, efficient platform, .NET shouldn't be a necessity.

[ww2]

First of all, the problem I'm going to talk about isn't even related to CCC, but I'm gonna post it anyway hoping to get some feedback from ATI (you probably already know about it, but I'm gonna say it anyway, just in case). I could send an email to you guys, but I doubt that even if you have a support team exclusively dedicated to answering customer emails you would have time to read my message in less than a week. So here it goes:

Problem description: Servers with PunkBuster cause the game to freeze.

How to reproduce it: Just install Catalyst 4.10 with or without CCC (4.9 works fine) and run or join a game server with PunkBuster enabled. I created a dedicated Q3A server with PB disabled, and had no problems at all (I joined the game, of course). Executing the same procedure with PB enabled results in a complete game freeze just a few seconds after you join.

Alot of people have been complaining about the same problem and it's agreed that some conflict/incompatibility between PunkBuster and Catalyst 4.10 is causing the bug. Note that this is not a Quake III Arena-specific issue.
Thanks for your attention.

EDIT: Forgot about the system specs. I think the only relevant thing to say is that I'm using Win XP Pro with SP2 and my mobo chipset is not an nForce one (saw people saying the problem only happens when using nvidia motherboard chipsets, which is not true.)

[jimmsta]

I agree with _leech_... CCC should be written in a multiplatform toolkit, and be ported to the linux driver, seeing as us linux users are stuck with "fireglcontrol", which is a crappy info program, which does not allow changing of graphics options. WHY ATI? WHY?

And, on another note, I've sent bug reports in, but have not gotten a response... Why are the linux drivers so INFERIOR to the windows drivers? I WANT to be able to use my Radeon in Linux... but at the very moment, the only game that I can play is Half-life...

I've tried getting UT2k4 to work correctly, but nothing that I change helps. Is this due to the fact that I use Gentoo? ATI must SPEAK UP on their linux driver issues!!!

[eggs420]

Yeah same for bsd though I doubt that will happen.

[Spyre]

Originally Posted by leglod

Hello, I am French then want to excuse me well my English. I do not have a problem with CCC the quite simply parcque one I do not use it, for the simple one and good resond that it reclame the netframework of Microsoft which is too buguer has Mons feel! But I profit of this forum to put a question about the catalyst in general! Since version 3.8 approximately it seems that the spilotes do not support any more the stake 8bits what poses a reel problem with certain plays, like Rally Masters of DICE INFOGRAMME to see this forum Rally Masters or http://glodonordi.free.fr/RallyMaste...Mastersen.html . Thus is my question to know if ATI work about this problem?

There is NO chance of the rally masters problem being fixed without a game patch as newish ATI hardware doesnt support 8bit texturing

There was supposed to be an ATI info base article added to explain this but as far as I can tell it was never added

[Spyre]

@ ww2

Already fixed in beta drivers will be in 4.12 official drivers, and should hopefully be a hotfix release before then

[The_Neon_Cowboy]

Originally Posted by _leech_

My one real suggestion:

Rewrite CCC in win32/MFC/WTL or any multiplatform GUI toolkit like Qt or wxWidgets. Unless something is demonstrated that absolutly has to rely on .NET and can't be done using a stable, efficient platform, .NET shouldn't be a necessity.

this has been adressed before a million times. ALL companies will be introduceing .net based control panel aplications as it's requred for the next big version of windows. no offence I just wish people would grow up and stop complaing about .net you don't like it you better switch to linux. .the new CP one allows them to do a alot more and do it in alot less developement time. major changes can come in a single reslease insted of 5-6 mouths the old way.... ".NET shouldn't be a necessity." even thouh it's a optional part of SP2 it's imbeded into the next version of windows. meaning you nave .net or you don't have windows. net allows features you could ever get with the old CP

Originally Posted by jimmsta

I agree with _leech_... CCC should be written in a multiplatform toolkit, and be ported to the linux driver, seeing as us linux users are stuck with "fireglcontrol", which is a crappy info program, which does not allow changing of graphics options. WHY ATI? WHY?

And, on another note, I've sent bug reports in, but have not gotten a response... Why are the linux drivers so INFERIOR to the windows drivers? I WANT to be able to use my Radeon in Linux... but at the very moment, the only game that I can play is Half-life...

I've tried getting UT2k4 to work correctly, but nothing that I change helps. Is this due to the fact that I use Gentoo? ATI must SPEAK UP on their linux driver issues!!!

.net is fully portable to linux just in case you didn't know people run .net on linux all the time with some simple legwork...

linux is inferior to windows in many many ways
(windows is inferior to linux in a few ways)

IMO: I'm sorry linux gets a bum rap but why should ati prioritise the minority and ignore the magority. like 80-90% of pc run windows and mac, linux, unix, dos, freebsd, etc hsare the smaller minorties...

Linux and windows are far from being simular alot of ati's options ar set via windows registry. linux has no such "windows like" registry nor does it act like windows. so i'm guessing it the nature of the os itself that limits what they can do for you guys inthe way of drivers...

[_leech_]

Originally Posted by The_Neon_Cowboy

this has been adressed before a million times. ALL companies will be introduceing .net based control panel aplications as it's requred for the next big version of windows.

Except that .NET is far from finished, same with Longhorn. It's safe to say most - if not all - of the problems people are having with CCC have little to do with ATI at all. As far as "all" companies introducing .NET control panels, i have yet to see any indication that this is true. Also, as far as i understand, Longhorn can run normal win32 apps just fine, not to do so would be instant suicide for the OS.

There's no reason why CCC couldn't have been writen in a more efficient, stable platform and then migrated to .NET/Longhorn when the time came or the platform matured.

[Dazog]

It would be nice to Have a Check in the CCC installer to tell us what version of .net is installed on our pc and if none is installed it tells the customer where to download it to actually use the CCC.

[_leech_]

Originally Posted by MindlessOath

@ _leech_ your arguement has been argued time and time again. your have already got an answer, please leave it at that. this IS improving, how about help with it, or dont bother annoying us further (just cause i have heard it before, and so many times, use the search function if your not to lazy to).

Gee, sorry for annoying you, i thought this thread was about how to make CCC better, my bad

[Konge Odin]

My problem is that cli.exe (ATIccc) uses too many resources at startup.
Without cli.exe, running the control panel client wont work of course.
With the old control panel this problem was nonexisting.

Of course the panel also hangs often when adjusting AA settings back and forth without pressing ok and then moving to other tabs.

Apart from that I am quite content with the panel.
My method is:
Do a change then press apply and done, then open the program again go to the profile and make a profile for the game I am going to use.
Now I am only using the profiles for adjusting since it seems to hang often otherwise. Open program, choose profile, press apply and done.
Other than this minor problems I really like the program.

[axx]

I also agree it should be rewriten to be able to use it with out .net, I do like the way it looks but it loads too slow hangs in parts and the main problem I have with it is the loss of fps in all games and benchmarks I have used and benched.
gigabyte K8T800|AMD3200+ 2gig|1 gig of corsair xms3200c2
Radeon X800pro||Win XP|Ser. Pk1|DNA 3.1.4.10B|

[The_Neon_Cowboy]

Originally Posted by _leech_

Except that .NET is far from finished, same with Longhorn. It's safe to say most - if not all - of the problems people are having with CCC have little to do with ATI at all. As far as "all" companies introducing .NET control panels, i have yet to see any indication that this is true. Also, as far as i understand, Longhorn can run normal win32 apps just fine, not to do so would be instant suicide for the OS.

There's no reason why CCC couldn't have been writen in a more efficient, stable platform and then migrated to .NET/Longhorn when the time came or the platform matured.

Just because Microsoft .net will be updated, and features may change expand just like windows does doesn't mean it not a "final product" you speak as if it's some pre alpha or something even though it's been out there for what? years?

OK NVIDIA has plans, bitboys already has a .net CP, others (sis,s3 etc) if they don't have one they have plans .... because it's "required" in long horn. It's only a matter of "time".

You what would rather ATI waited a year and fell behind it's competitors?

ATI jumped a head, dragging people like you (who were happy in your little classic cp stone age) kicking an screaming into the future. The new cp allows so much more and opens up a world of possibilities to you why do you not see this....

Why would the develop a "win32" app /test/update and code a new CP just to keep it 6 mounths to a year??? that took twice the time and twice the money and was really slow to get updated maybe even really buggy … time to finally get the bugs worked out. Add what the fans want... just to flush that hard work down the toilette ... and start from scratch again with .net

It’s not “constructive” to keep complaining over .net it’s here been here for quite a while and is here to stay. It’s the future, don’t like it take it up with Bill gates and Microsoft. EVEN if .net wasn’t planed to be integrated into longhorn.

Don’t be thinking it’s just because of Microsoft’s plans though. But even with out them .net is a versatile frame work on which other computer languages run. It’s easy to work with, it cut development time and cost in ½… as I said before it opens up a world of possibilities that you would NEVER would of had with the old CP.

[DeKay]

i dont know if its been posted before or if its related to the CP but every time i install a new driver set, on the restart following the installation, i have no screens at all (after loging on). when rebooting i have my screens set up correctly but it would be nice to see them correctly set up at the first reboot, any idea why this happens ? its been doing this since my first driver sets, its not a big problem but is quite annoying ....

[jimmsta]

I will say, that I've never even tried CCC, because of all the flak it got when it was first released... I use Omega's drivers, anyway, so I've got RadLinker by my side all the time. I'm hoping that ATI will NOT force the CCC on us in the future, as I cannot see what good a bloated memory application has over an "outdated" CPL file....

EDIT: You know what? I think I'll try it out, anyway... then I can submit whatever bug reports... and do some 3dmark'ing.... well needed 3dmark'ing....

[OldBuzzard]

If you are really so 'stressed' about cli.exe loading at startup, all you have to do is go to the STARTUP folder and delete it. You can still access CCC by using either the Desktop shortcut, or right clicking on the desktop.

I think that a lot of the whining is just because it's something 'new', and for a lot of people new=scary.

As for other applications using .NET, LogiGamer, which allows you to make profiles for button assignments for MX series mice is written using .NET and if you have an MX mouse you should investigate it. .NET is the wave of the future, so you need to get used to it.

[johndoe74]

demands 100+ MB memory at startup - ok fine i got a gig of memory, but i don't have a gig of memory to waste on an application thats just a prettier version of something we already have available albiet without the pretty frills and all that - it's just a user interface people - it shouldn't ask for more than a few odd megs or so

[prosper]

Here's suggestion for a fix...

When using any Radeon card with the HDTV Wonder:

You can not view HDTV when in Inverted Landscape mode.
Can't watch regular TV with the analog capture either.

Been a real pain for me since my projector is ceiling mounted, but doesn't have the ability to flip the display on it's own.

My prior NVidia card did this with no problem.

I contacted ATI and they said it will be fixed some day...

That was 3 months ago.
So, I've got a $300 paper weight.

[tbdad]

HDTVI was using Control Center with good success until I received my HDTV Wonder card. Upon installing all the latest drivers, I get a permission warning saying I need to contact my administrator. Problem is I am the administrator.

[Eaten]

Originally Posted by The_Neon_Cowboy

ATI jumped a head, dragging people like you (who were happy in your little classic cp stone age) kicking an screaming into the future. The new cp allows so much more and opens up a world of possibilities to you why do you not see this....

Now this I would like someone to explain. What exactly is that "more" that the .net allows? I mean, apart from bloat?

A Control panel is used to change settings that usually are stored in the registry. So far, these changes have been possible to make with a slick, fast control panel that doesn't require huge (as in RAM) executables running in the background accessing the registry a billion times a second (Btw, I wonder if they have fixed that one yet? As long as CLI.exe doesn't stop doing this, I'll go nowhere near the CCC)

Originally Posted by OldBuzzard

If you are really so 'stressed' about cli.exe loading at startup, all you have to do is go to the STARTUP folder and delete it. You can still access CCC by using either the Desktop shortcut, or right clicking on the desktop.

I think that a lot of the whining is just because it's something 'new', and for a lot of people new=scary.

Two instances of the CLI.exe are run after a basic installation of CCC. I you kill them both, the CCC does not start from desktop or anywhere.

The only thing scary about the CCC is how bad and bloaty it is at this point, it's like killing a fly with a goddamn nuclear explosive. And it's kinda hard to see how the CCC has a positive effect on usability - the gui is basically a friggin mess compared to the old one.

Originally Posted by johndoe74

demands 100+ MB memory at startup - ok fine i got a gig of memory, but i don't have a gig of memory to waste on an application thats just a prettier version of something we already have available albiet without the pretty frills and all that - it's just a user interface people - it shouldn't ask for more than a few odd megs or so

Exactly.

[OldBuzzard]

You DON"T have to kill both CLI's, just delete the shortcut for CCC in the startup folder.

CCC only loads ONE instance of CLI, the other is loaded by .net, and typically it only uses about 4-4.5 meg. The CLI that CCC uses starts at about 50 meg or so and within SECONDS drops down to about 7-8 meg. THEN, when you close CCC the 2nd one goes away. You don't have to take my word on this, just bring up TASK MANAGER and monitor what happens when you bring up CCC and then shut it down.

OH, while you are at it, take a look at the memory usage of some of the other processes, and you will see that CLI isn't all the RAM hungry anyway.

[Eaten]

Originally Posted by OldBuzzard

You DON"T have to kill both CLI's, just delete the shortcut for CCC in the startup folder.

CCC only loads ONE instance of CLI, the other is loaded by .net, and typically it only uses about 4-4.5 meg. The CLI that CCC uses starts at about 50 meg or so and within SECONDS drops down to about 7-8 meg. THEN, when you close CCC the 2nd one goes away. You don't have to take my word on this, just bring up TASK MANAGER and monitor what happens when you bring up CCC and then shut it down.

OH, while you are at it, take a look at the memory usage of some of the other processes, and you will see that CLI isn't all the RAM hungry anyway.

Even if the memory usage stays at 7-8 megs, the only other processes that manage to reserve as much ram are programs that I actively use. Hell, my audio file player actually uses less ram than that. For something that runs in the background doing basically nothing, that's out of proportion, even if it is "only" 7 or 8 megs of ram.

I'd rather have even that little bit memory for actual programs to use instead of it being hogged by the system. Besides, it's still memory that didn't need to be taken before to achieve the same level of functionality, or can someone seriously claim that the 3d-preview adds anything to usability?

[AndreyPopov]

when you plan to provide full support for multicard configurations?

[Samir]

dotNET = sranje...

[sherfh]

All I can say is:

Use Omega Catalyst!

All the 'perks' (are there any?) of using CCC ** without the memory usage and shi7 of CCC.

All hail Omega (and RadLinker which incorporated the tweak)!

** Latest Omega has AI toggle built in.

[CapnBry]

I personally don't care if you code it in C, .NET, or Windows Scripting Host, my gripe is what exactly do these two processes do?

-- I don't need a vendor's tooltray app that switches me between screen resolutions.
-- I don't need a hotkey to bring up a configuration dialog for something I never change.
-- I don't need something managing my window layouts across multiple monitors.
-- I don't need a dialog with a really cool huge gradient title bar which I can color coordinate with my desktop theme.
-- I don't need the ability to stream video I'm trying to watch to another PC with a similar video card.
-- I don't want a "Shower Door" shader running on any videos I try to watch.

I just want video drivers, and maybe occasionally (every month at the most?) I may want to change the configuration on them. That doesn't require some amazing skinned, always running, using 8 - 50MB of memory application. XP already has skinning, and I want my configuration editor to do just that, edit my configuration then exit.

[The_Neon_Cowboy]

....

Originally Posted by Eaten

Now this I would like someone to explain. What exactly is that "more" that the .net allows? I mean, apart from bloat?

[color=lime]I could tell you but then i'd have to kill you (I avoid breaking my NDA), and i'm running out of places to hide the bodies so not today... come back and make this comment in 6mo to a year wise guy and then answer it your self...[/color]

[color=#00ff00]the number on thing I can say is a update to CCC can happen mouthly[/color]
[color=#00ff00]and real update to the old CP takes about 3-6 mouths...[/color]

[color=#00ff00]hmm a fast changeing (and fast fixes )VS. an old slow chageing one BARF would you like drivers only released every 3-6 mouths as well [/color]
[color=lime]you'd be selling your ati card and you know it...[/color]

A Control panel is used to change settings that usually are stored in the registry. So far, these changes have been possible to make with a slick, fast control panel that doesn't require huge (as in RAM) executables running in the background accessing the registry a billion times a second (Btw, I wonder if they have fixed that one yet? As long as CLI.exe doesn't stop doing this, I'll go nowhere near the CCC)

[color=lime]Only change registry settings? how nieave your are of the other capabilties and possabilties ....[/color]

[color=#00ff00]comeone a billion times a second how's down to earth you are (if your a man from mars ) I wish people would quit exadurateing and get your F-A-C-T-S stright.....[/color]

Two instances of the CLI.exe are run after a basic installation of CCC. I you kill them both, the CCC does not start from desktop or anywhere.

The only thing scary about the CCC is how bad and bloaty it is at this point, it's like killing a fly with a goddamn nuclear explosive. And it's kinda hard to see how the CCC has a positive effect on usability - the gui is basically a friggin mess compared to the old one.

[color=lime]Bloaty? I assume you could say windows is bloaty and it's unfixable so you better go to linux then ..... It looks frigging cool annd things that look cool sell like hot cakes.. even if not just for looking cool!... welcome to the world of the real....[/color]

[color=#00ff00]let me geuess you one of the users that used if for 1 minute or didn'teven load it at all [/color]

Exactly.

[color=lime]first off the only time CCC and .net would use 100mb @ startup is if you have turned off your pageing file. CCC usea roughly 80% swap file 20% memory.... as found in previous testing[/color]

[color=#00ff00]4.8 CATALYST Control Center, Investigated[/color]
[color=#00ff00]Some Quick 4.9 CCC VS Old CP numbers[/color]


[color=#00ff00]please show me 100mb of ram useage, PHISICAL MEMORY as in RAM not as in a PAGEING FILE ON YOUR HARD DISK DRIVE. Stop useing the number provided by the task manager! That is virtual memory + physical with is your comment chage something totally diffrent[/color]





[color=#00ff00]yes these are from an older test but you guys wer still saying it then even after i've tested and found otherwise.... [/color]

[color=#00ff00]now long as you don't play with the control pannel running, aka running two 3d games at once the performance diffreance is 0% [/color]

[nookadum]

linux is inferior to windows in many many ways
(windows is inferior to linux in a few ways)

IMO: I'm sorry linux gets a bum rap but why should ati prioritise the minority and ignore the magority. like 80-90% of pc run windows and mac, linux, unix, dos, freebsd, etc hsare the smaller minorties...

ATI should prioritize BOTH the minority AND the majority.

I know it's your own opinion, and I know most PCs run Windows, but as a major company, ATI should support ALL PLATFORMS EQUALLY. If NVidia can do it, why can't ATI? And don't go calling me an NVidia fanboy, I own a 9550 and I'm very unsatisfied with their cross-platform support.

They may have great support for Windows users, but why can't they even it up so they can support *nix and Mac (especially now that OSX is based on BSD) users as well? This just shows that they're not treating their customers right. (Yes, I know there was a new Linux driver released, but it still sucks.)

And yes, there are gamers on Linux too. If you go to slashdot and ask around, I guarantee a lot (more than a million actually) will say that they game on Linux.

But I do agree with you on one thing NC, .NET is the future for Windows. Nothing's wrong with that. But ATI needs to concentrate on more important things NOW, and not this CCC crap. We don't need another control panel.