CM :Any word on the ATI ,Punkbuster issue?

Chaos · Oct 3, 2004, 11:13 AM

Summary of Problems

There were several other things that were brought to my attention -

* Problem does not occur on non-PB servers
* This problem seems specific to WinXP - this does not happen on Win2k
* Removal of the Nvidia GART Driver clears this problem up
* Reverting to ATI's 3.9 seems to clear this up for some people
* Reducing the AGP aperture size reduces the amount of delay
* Decreasing the PB scan frequency with pb_sleep decreases the frequency of the freezes
* Changing from an ATI to Nvidia card seems to have eliminated problems for many users

I brought this to the attention of the three parties involved, ATI, Nvidia and Evenbalance. While all three were receptive, resolving this issue has become a stalemate.

Full Story

Shinjikun · Oct 3, 2004, 11:15 AM

Has anyone encountered any issues like the ones mentioned in the article? I'm running on an nForce2 board with an ATi card (using the latest drivers for both) and I haven't encountered any issues yet.

dipstick · Oct 3, 2004, 11:23 AM

I haven't run into anything like that either but there are lots that have.

eggs420 · Oct 3, 2004, 11:26 AM

That's a load of bullshit, pardon my french. I have an nforce3 and I play at LEAST 2 hours of a pb game a day and I don't get any freezes what so ever. _ROCK SOLID_. Our clan has no members that get those crashes, at that can be blamed on the game OR pb. Quite a few have nforce2's, too. In fact, the last time I had a full lock up (that I couldn't explain/fix off the bat) was literally years ago..In the first version of bf:v with PB enabled we saw some oddness, but that was patched up and is gone.

PB does have some serious shortcomings and flaws, but come on..

I had this problem once with pb in bf1942. Without pb, the game wouldn't crash but with it it would. Turned out I had a flaky ram stick. Pulled that sucker and never had a problem again.

Shinjikun · Oct 3, 2004, 11:32 AM

I wonder if they are referring to a hard lock up or just stuttering.

Chaos · Oct 3, 2004, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinjikun

I wonder if they are referring to a hard lock up or just stuttering.

If you read it, it seems like a 4-5 second time frame where the system is unusable then things return to normal

chaosmaker · Oct 3, 2004, 12:44 PM

Quote:

That's a load of bullshit, pardon my french.

Just because it doesn't happen to you doesn't make it BS, it is happening, and too quite a few people, hopefully it will be resolved. As you can see it gives people something to try. Do you work for evenbalance?

virgo · Oct 3, 2004, 12:52 PM

Yep,I had exactly those problems but since I installed the 5.10 nForce drivers and the Omega 8.07 betas things seem to be running OK at the moment.

ericdrum · Oct 3, 2004, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eggs420

That's a load of bullshit, pardon my french. I have an nforce3 and I play at LEAST 2 hours of a pb game a day and I don't get any freezes what so ever. _ROCK SOLID_. Our clan has no members that get those crashes, at that can be blamed on the game OR pb. Quite a few have nforce2's, too. In fact, the last time I had a full lock up (that I couldn't explain/fix off the bat) was literally years ago..In the first version of bf:v with PB enabled we saw some oddness, but that was patched up and is gone.

PB does have some serious shortcomings and flaws, but come on..

I had this problem once with pb in bf1942. Without pb, the game wouldn't crash but with it it would. Turned out I had a flaky ram stick. Pulled that sucker and never had a problem again.

Errr... maybe you should read the whole article. If nVidia, ATI and evenbalance can reproduce the problem, I think it's legit. It's a matter of tracking down the exact problem.

Shinjikun · Oct 3, 2004, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos

If you read it, it seems like a 4-5 second time frame where the system is unusable then things return to normal

So it's more of a stutter than a hard lock up then; interesting. I haven't seen any stuttering since I built this system back in July but then again other people may be encountering this issue.

Mr cairo · Oct 3, 2004, 04:12 PM

i got this in Vietnam and cod .... this is on the MSI K8N Neo Platinum nForce3 board the pc game would just pause as if i was having a hooge lag spike then continue ....... so i changed the mobo back to my old MSI Via mobo and the problem has gone ....... its a very real problem

HENNESSY · Oct 3, 2004, 05:14 PM

I just upgraded from P4 to AMD 64 with nForce3 (ASUS K8N-e Deluxe)and now I have this problem too. While playing it just freezes for about 4 seconds and then resumes. It happens like every 5 minutes. I'm glad this news item showed up, im gonna try removing Nvidia GART Drivers.

Mr cairo · Oct 3, 2004, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HENNESSY

I just upgraded from P4 to AMD 64 with nForce3 (ASUS K8N-e Deluxe)and now I have this problem too. While playing it just freezes for about 4 seconds and then resumes. It happens like every 5 minutes.

try this

Uninstall the GART driver from 5.10 Nvidia drivers and installed the 4.27 GART driver from previous version of Nforce drivers

its working for me so far

HENNESSY · Oct 3, 2004, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cairo

try this

Uninstall the GART driver from 5.10 Nvidia drivers and installed the 4.27 GART driver from previous version of Nforce drivers

its working for me so far

I uninstalled the 5.10 GART driver and the problem seems to be gone. Where can I find the 4.27 GART driver, and what does a GART driver do anyway?

fibonaccov · Oct 3, 2004, 06:03 PM

Man I'm so glad someone wrote this article - I've been seeing this issue for more than a year with Quake3 and Yes, increasing pb_sleep does help somehow but not completely - these freezes happen at different intervals with the same duration - quite annoying during MP and it only happens when PB is involved - it sucks.

This is NOT BS like some of you peeps are saying. It's a fecking freeze which lasts for 5-10 secs and only when PB is involved...I tried reinstalling my OS and PB, same.

Running XP / nForce mobo / ATI 9800 Pro with latest Omega driver (as always)

--fib

MythicaL · Oct 3, 2004, 06:53 PM

Happens to me ALL the time in CoD Single Player

ericdrum · Oct 3, 2004, 06:57 PM

Are those with this issue having it only on nF3 mobos?

Alistair · Oct 3, 2004, 10:46 PM

This may explain my Joint Operation freezes I get occassionally.

MythicaL · Oct 3, 2004, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericdrum

Are those with this issue having it only on nF3 mobos?

I don't think so, seeing as how I have an nF2 mobo

Maybe it's AMD processors?

Mr cairo · Oct 4, 2004, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HENNESSY

I uninstalled the 5.10 GART driver and the problem seems to be gone. Where can I find the 4.27 GART driver, and what does a GART driver do anyway?

youll get the 4.27 driver from the older set of nvidia mobo drivers the ones before the 5.10's

what does a GART driver do = http://www2.ati.com/drivers/igp-gart-1009-1.html

hope it keeps working for you m8

ToP3koms · Oct 6, 2004, 06:01 PM

[COLOR=Silver]I just experienced this same problem with Q3.I was using the newest Omega drivers (8.07 betas) and I would get a hard lock and crash.Reverting back to the 4.9 based Omega's sorted it out.I'm wondering if maybe it had something to do with the 256MB memory fix in the newer drivers ?[/COLOR]

Shinjikun · Oct 6, 2004, 08:11 PM

Strange issue. I'm using an nForce2 board with a Barton CPU, ATi 9500 Pro, and the 5.03 Remix drivers and I haven't encountered any Punk Buster stuttering since I built the machine.

MythicaL · Oct 6, 2004, 10:03 PM

Most of the time if you get an unexpected illegal operation in a game, it is because you have EAX sound enabled.

shadd · Oct 6, 2004, 10:09 PM

i can verify this issue %100 percent. the freeze length depends on agp size with 128 giving apprx. 5 second lock every so minutes depending on pb_sleep 20-500.

and yes the new cat betas 8.07 and omega 8.07 turn this freeze into a total hard lock requiring a reboot. this lock will take place upon joining a pb enabled server. the time of the hardlock depends on pb-sleep 20-500.

w2k on different partition works perfectly.

i first built this system with a 9700pro and had the freezes. upgraded to a x800xt pe and the problem persists.

have tried different sound cards, nic's, everything i could think of.

this is in quake3.

basic specs:

+3200 clawhammer
msi neo platimum nf3
1 gig ram
sapphire x800xt pe(9700 was sapphire to if that might matter)
465 watt enermax(new)

shadd · Oct 6, 2004, 10:17 PM

its really odd that some people have it, some dont with seemingly identical hardware. im going to try reinstalling XP and all drivers before upgrading any service packs. i think it might be some wierd XP hardware setup issue.

HENNESSY · Oct 7, 2004, 04:46 AM

yep, the ati hotfix turns freeze into hardlock.
from what ive read so far the get-freeze-combo is: nforce2/3 + nvidia gart driver + winxp + ati

is there anyone out there with this combination who does not get freezes?

PamelorAnderson · Oct 7, 2004, 03:59 PM

I think this has alot to do with ATI as I have experienced this problem on an Intel system and now an Nvdia System.

--
My old system: Using Catalyst Drivers from 3.9-4.x I kept getting the intermittent(sp?) 5 second freeze-skips (depending upon my pb_sleep values) on PB servers (RTCW & Quake3)

Intel 850G 423 Socket
P4 1.7Ghz
512 MB Samsung RDRAM
Sapphire Radeon 9600 Pro 128 MB
4x AGP
80GB Maxtor IDE 8MB Cache
Win XP SP 1
--
My new system - Just built this past week, only thing I kept from old was the video card. Using the newest CATs and Omegas, I get the hard lockup where I have to reboot

Gigabyte GA-K8NS Nforce3 250
Athlon 64 2800+ Newcastle
512 MB Mushkin 400 3200 DDR
Sapphire Radeon 9600 Pro 128MB
120 GB Seagate SATA
Win XP SP 2

I've tried everything. Lowered AGB to 4x, Disabled Fast-Write...as soon as the client contacts Punkbuster it freezes. Setting PB_Sleep to 500 just delay