fancmn

If you've been following my recent troubles with ATI drivers, here's copy of my email to ATI support. I'm kinda ticked that this problem isn't documented anywhere on their web site and ATI tech support seems to be completely unaware of it...

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Dear <removed>,

I have solved the problem and wanted to share the solution with your team and in particular with the driver development group.

The current Radeon drivers are incompatible with VGAsave (the default Microsoft VGA driver used in Windows 2000/XP).

VGAsave is used in Safe Mode, VGA Mode, and Normal mode when no other video adapter is configured.

Since it is not possible to select a Radeon in the initial Windows 2000 Hardware Wizard, all users will be stuck with VGAsave and the following fatal installation error:

“Please setup your display adapter with a standard VGA adapter before running setup”

I was only able to circumvent this incompatibility by installing a PCI video card simultaneously with my Radeon 8500.

After configuring the PCI video card and rebooting, VGAsave was no longer present and the Radeon drivers installed without errors.

After troubleshooting this problem over a 5-day period, I'm convinced that the current drivers will not install when VGAsave is present in any form or mode.

The only solution is to configure a 2nd card to handle video functions, thereby replacing VGAsave.

Based on my Internet research, Windows XP is also affected by the same problem.


ORIGINAL PROBLEM SUMMARY:

I have a dual-boot system (Win 98SE and Windows 2K).

I have removed all previous drivers and removed my old video card.

I then physically installed my ATI 8500 Pro for OS detection.

As you know, ATI drivers require that the PC be in Standard VGA mode before drivers will install.

Win98 makes this easy because it lets you select 'standard VGA adapter' at first boot / hardware detection.

The ATI drivers then happily install and my ATI 8500 is working fine under Win98SE.

Windows 2000, however, does not let you select anything generic at 1st boot.

The 2K Hardware Wizard does not contain 'standard VGA adapter' and you end-up exiting with device disabled or unknown.

The ATI Driver installer will then terminate after installing the files, but before registering them with the OS.

Error: “Please setup your display adapter with a standard VGA adapter before running setup”

I've also trying installing the .inf files manually.

You can point to the .inf files, but in the end you get an error that a file wasn't found or couldn't be copied.

The Hardware Wizard does not indicate which file could not be found.

Even if it prompts you to reboot, the device is disabled (X) or unrecognized (!).

I've removed the drivers completely and attempted reinstallation many times with no success.

I've also attempted the driver install from Safe Mode, but it fails because DirectX isn't running.

Running the driver install from VGA Mode produced the same 'Standard VGA' error.

Ran the ATI Driver Remover and Driver Cleaner 3 from Safe mode, no change.

Also downloaded the 'update inf' from Intel for the 440BX chip set.

Ran the update, but it reports that everything is up-to-date and exits.

There is no on-board video on my motherboard.

System has been updated to SP4 and DirectX 9.0b.

In the absence of a working video driver, Windows 2000 will use something called 'VGAsave' for basic video functions.

According to Microsoft, this is the official Standard VGA Adapter.

Windows 2000 uses VGAsave in Safe Mode, VGA Mode, and Normal mode when no other video device is fully configured.

Unfortunately, there seems to be conflict between VGAsave and the ATI drivers.

The ATI drivers will apparently not install (by installer or by .inf) when VGAsave is present.


===========================================
> Regarding auto reply:
>
> The auto response was created to provide a quick response to common
configuration problems. We apologize for any inconvenience the auto reply
has caused you. We have had a good response thus far in regards to it but in some cases it does not always help everyone.
>
>
> Regarding setting up a system with a standard VGA driver in Windows 2000:
>
> Please follow the steps belows to setup your Windows 2000 OS with a
standard VGA driver.
>
> 1 - Restart the computer
> 2 - Once the computer finishes shutting down and starts to come on again, ap the F8 key at one second internvals.
> 3. - When the Windows Advanced Options Menu is displayed, arrow down to the fifth option, ENABLE VGA MODE
> 4 - Press enter.
> 5 - Select your operating system from the next screen and follow the
prompts to complete booting.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> <removed>
> Customer Care
> ATI Technologies, Inc.
> http://www.ati.com

The_Neon_Cowboy

Well I had wk2 for about a year and I never seen that error.
(win 3.1/95/98/me/nt4/2000 sp1,2,3,4/xp sp1,sp1a, numerous sp2 beta's)...

I don't know what’s going on in your particular setup but something can't be right...

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El Kapitano

XP since release and 2K before that, I've never seen it either.

Judas

This Problem does indeed excist and has been sent off to ATI ALOT of time by me on various computer setups... If i recall right... 12... This problem is Pretty damn brutal, and to get around it, you have to do down to the finest detail what he said you have to do. And even then, you can mess up. Regardless of what you do, you CAN'T install a driver of any sorts without it just spitting an error at you or simply doing nothing. Doesn't matter what driver revision. IF the card is not detected on fresh install as the microsoft version of the drivers or even then, i've encounter times when it does, but has a problem with the device, that you have to find another PCI card in which case and muck up the registry defeating the purpose of fresh install. Updating drivers is the most common, Nothing hurts more then working with a costomer and doing a simple driver update that just for some reason, went wrong and now, the system is blown to bits. Backup and reinstall freshly. No Windows Restore will fix it. No Driver RollBack... No quick fix.... Driver cleaner.. ATI remover..... you name it. It totally destroys it all. HOWEVER, this only occurs IF you use the official Cats and attempt update IF you have been able to install.. (i've only encountered on my machine twice out of DOZENs of reinstalls.. of a failing to install)..... Omega's work flawlessly with just a simple download... update overtop.... Officials have to be removed.... there lays the problem mostly.... I think the majority of the problem is the fact that the installers for drivers is just getting out of hand and is now starting to mess up... We need MS to create a fully fledge dedicated Driver installer package system... not some install sheild that if for software... something more Dedicated to Driver installing and hardware related.... Not sure i explain myself right....

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MythicaL

Hey Judas, welcome back!

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Always knew I didn't belong in this world. I wasn't made for this. But I'll never forget those who betrayed me, and those who never failed my trust.

HawK

Here is another one who never seen this stop error, nor on W2K or XP
Could it be related to the 8500 only? (9200 did install ok on both OS's)
Also; Ati states the Catalysts do need SP4 on W2K

fancmn

For what it's worth, I tested a 9200 two weeks ago and got the exact same 'standard VGA' error.

Since the Radeon driver supports the whole family of boards, I don't think it matters which you're using.

While trying to install the 9200, I beat the crap out the driver and .inf for days and after one magic reboot it went in on Win2k (98SE worked immediately).

I subsequently decided the 9200 blew and removed it.

You can imagine how relucant I was at that point to remove everything and start over in a week (8500 was on order).

I almost consider keeping the 9200 just because of the difficulty I had getting it to work.

I guess (thinking now) I could have left the 2K Radeon drivers in place, but I was going back to my Kyro II till the 8500 arrived.

For whatever reason, this didn't occure to me at the time.

For the record, system was updated to SP4 before any of this happened

Judas

This happens across all versions of the radeon series with all the catalyst drivers (the earliest) and the latest.... run into this problem with an orginal radeon... all the way through the 7xxx/8xxx/9xxx line so far.... x800? not sure "YET"

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fancmn

Thanks for the vote of confidence Judas.

I also tried many of the older Radeon driver revisions and found they similarly affected.

I wish I had found a solution faster, becasue I spend most of recent holiday weekend troubleshooting.

I guess the upshot of all of this is:

Win2K users should seriously consider installing thier new Radeon *before* removing their old card.

This is not something that most people or card makers would normally recommend.

I don't have XP, but when searching on the error, I found XP users who were also affected.

Judas

I run XP majority of the time on all system.... it's been awhile since i install 9x or w2k...... The problem is pretty nasty..... but it's rare if you do everything in your power to prevent bad installs.... and use drivers like omegas....

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GeoffM

Well it's happening to me with OD's grrrr!

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AMD Athlon 4800+ X2 Asus AV600
3 GIG Kingston PC3200 RAM
ATI x1600 512
SB Audigy 2 ZS Platiumn Pro

The_Neon_Cowboy

If it happens it must be some rare error or something. Like I said before I’ve still never seen it either way that sounds like something in windows not being right error.

Answer me this…If their truely incompatible then why could I take windows 2000 install it on my system right now, load dx9, my mobo drivers and service pack 4, plug any of my three ATI cards in and load the drivers just fine? With out seeing your error. There’s got to be another factor involved thats being over looked.

I did some research and I can’t find anything on this except there are many different stop errors and for different things.

What is the “exact error” you guys are receiving take a screen shot or something if need be. So I can try to look into this more.


Anyways you should report any driver bugs here.
http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/index.asp

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Judas

i never said that the OD's never had this issue... i'm just say that the way they are made... and how they are easily updated.... it very rare in comparison to the officials...

Neon.. i have sent multiple reports in about this from various machiens...

Although that was well over 6 months ago..


as for the error.... i would do it.. but i don't feel like reinstalling windows right now.... Try to catch me on MSN and keep reminding me to purposely screw up my install to attempt to get that error message and print screen it..

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The_Neon_Cowboy

Like I said I've looked and looked I'm not finding squat on it I can't verify the problem or even come up with a possible solution till I get more info. I have windows 2000 here to play with but it’s not installed and I am readying for Million Man Lan. If you run across it again pm me all the info you can on it. Thankx

-neon

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fancmn

I can think of a fairly easy way to test this theory (VGAsave & Radeon/Omega drivers)

First, wait till your Win2K/XP box needs a Radeon/Omega driver update.

Remove the drivers completely by installer, then ATI remover, then Driver Clean 3, whatever.

Reboot and bail out of any Hardware Wizard detection.

Check Device Manager to see if video devices are ? marked.

Check Display/Settings/Advanced/Adapter to see if it says 'VGA'.

Hit 'Details' or 'Properties' button to the right and it should open a window to 'VGAsave' from Device Manager.

This a Non-PnP hidden device window from Device Manager.

Once you've verified that VGAsave is running, attempt to install ATI/Omega drivers and see what happens.

I'm not sure if a fresh install of Windows is a fair test because 1) the hardware detection process may be slightly different at OS install 2) most people affected with this problem don't want to reload Windows anyway.

BTW, the exact error message should be listed in my original post, but I didn't do a screen capture.