Direct3D Problems in Win2K, not in Win98

Per Hansson · Aug 4, 2002, 08:07 AM

Hi all, I got recommended to this forum due to your said expertise with ATI graphicscards so here is something for you to try to solve:

This is a problem I've had for a long time now, and I've been unable to solve it...

If you wish you may take a look at the first place I have posted about this: Techspot forums that thread is two pages long...

As a first note I'm using the BIOS that came with the card v7.004 articlenumber 11385702103 date 2001/11/07 perhaps a new BIOS would fix this? If you think so could you e-mail the latest BIOS to me? (the exact model of my ATI card is listed below)

A "short" summary of the things I've tried are as follows (sorry in advance for the long post, it would probably make more sense if you read this at the original page (without all the cuts etc...))
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Okay, here is the deal, after that my computer has worked completley flawlessley in Win2K for several months it has now given up on me, I was writing a ATI Radeon driver comparsion but when I came to the last driver the comp said no, read on for a more technical explanation

As I said I was running benchmarks on my computer, both Direct3D and OpenGL testing ATI's drivers, but all of a sudden Direct3D refused to work!

OpenGL works perfectly fine, but as soon as I try to start up a D3D game the program or computer either hangs or the game is totally unplayable, like Max Payne for example, the camera "locks of" from m.r Payne and just flies around as it likes...

Ok, I thought, I'll just reformat then, said and done, I formatted and reinstalled Win2K, only installing in this order: Win2K (obviously), VIA 4in1438(2)v(a) DirectX 8.1, and the ATI display drivers (after a while tried out several different versions with complete reinstalls of Win2K inbetween)

And the result was exactly the same as before, D3D didn't work but OpenGL did...

Ok I thought, nice to have a change from the hardware problems between the ATI 8500 and Epox 8KHA+ mobo I had a few months ago atleast, because this clearly has to be a software bug...

Then I tried WinXP, installed it just as Win2K with the same drivers, same story then...

Then I thought that it might be my DirectX install file that is corrupt so I used another one from a PC Gamer cd, same story...

Ok, then I thoguht have I done all this I might just as well try the worst pice of *** OS over created, so I installed Win98, the VIA drivers, DirectX 8.1a and the new(est) ATI display drivers (tried old ones to) and then the darn thing worked!

It runs Direct3D without a problem for hours!

And now I've run into another problem in Win2K, after a few hours of MP3 playing the sound hangs...

This problem is not there in Win98SE...

Well well, if anyone is able to help me solve this problem I'm gonna give you a wet kiss (no wait, that was almost a threat, well I'll owe you one)

My hardware configuartion is the following:

FIC AN17 KT333 mainboard (which I should have done a review of had it not been for this darn bug...)

256MB Twinmos PC2100 DDR-SDRAM (In the review of the Epox 8KHA+ mobo I brought this memory to 185mhz at fastest memory timings...)

AMD Athlon XP 1700+ Palomino CPU (green cpu package; like it matters )

Built by ATI, ATI Radeon 8500 RETAIL 275/275 core/mem clock speed

SB Live! 5.1 soundcard connected to a DTT 3500 speaketr system via the digital output...

Realtek RTL8139A LAN card

Dual Maxtor D740X-FDB 20GB HDD's connected to the onboard Promise RAID controller in RAID-0 mode

Pioneer 16X DVD player connected as lone master on the mainboards IDE connectors...

Enermax 430w power-supply

The CPU and GFX card are watercooled, the watercooling for the GFX card is made by me tm with the help of a CNC mill...

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Forgot to mention that I have tried the Win2K Service Pack 2 to no avail...

I have also tried to figure out if the GFX card is using the default monitor instead of the one listed in device manager, I never really figured this out, for more details see the original thread over at Techspot...

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My software configuration is now:

VIA 4in1 4.40v(a)p3
DirectX 8.1B

Though the problem is the same as before

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Just tried something new, removed the RAID array and put a lone harddrive on Primary Master on the mainboard’s IDE controller.

Installed Win2K as I have described above and the problem was still there!

So this puts my idea about that it should be the RAID controller causing the problems to an end to…

Also I went into safe mode to change the monitor driver, though that was impossible …

I did change it in Win2K though and Powerstrip reported the monitor as manufacturerd by Eizo but the problem was still the same though

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This is just so wierd, I played MP3 in Win98 yesterday, 8 hours without problems!

And in Win2K it hangs within an hour!

I also played an OpenGL game in Win2K and the music hanged after a while then to...

Though in Win98 I can play forever, and that is exactly what I'm going to do now; got myself a copy of Warcraft3...

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Just tried out the DirectX 8.1 hotfix to no avail... (d3d8.dll v5.1.2600.44)

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Today I tried this: Install Win2K, install ATI drivers 6071 WHQL i.e. what this means is that I'm using DX 7.0

Running Max Payne or any other DX 8 game was imposisble since they requier it (wouldn't even start)

But I tried UnrealT and that worked fine in D3D (It is a DX7 game)

I then tried it in the config I have now with DX 8.1B where nothing seems to work but it worked there to...

I'll make a list of games that work and not after I've gotten myself some sleep.

Although for now this appears as some kind of DX8/8.1 bug...

What is the ver of DX after 7.0, 8.0? if so where can I download it?

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Diablo1: works (DirectX3 game)
Startcraft + SC BW: works (DirectX5 game)
Settlers3: works (DirectX6 game)
C&C: Tiberian Sun: works (DirectX6 game)
SIN: works (DirectX 6 game)
NOX: Works (DirectX7.0 game)
Diablo2 + LOD: FAILED! (DirectX7.0A game)
Need For Speed: Porsche 2000/Unleashed: FAILED! (DirectX7? game)

Well, this pretty much says it all...

Microsoft implemented something really bad in DX7.0a which wasn't there in 7.0, if anyone knows of a place that lists everything Microsoft fixes between the different service packs don't hesitate to tell me!

This test was done on the rig which I have had problems with all the time, nothing was changed before the games where run...

And sound still hangs after a while, probably a DX7.0A+ bug too...

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I tried another approach today: Go completely beta

Installed WinXP Pro, DirectX 9 beta ATI 6118 leaked display drivers (made especially for DX9)

VIA 4in1 1441 (official drivers)

The latest Creative SB Live drivers I posted about on the homepage, the ver number has escaped me... (Has not got Microsoft WHQL certification)

And you guessed it right the first time: The problem still persists and is exactly the same as before...

Jeff · Aug 4, 2002, 08:18 AM

Have you tried it all without any VIA drivers?

Per Hansson · Aug 4, 2002, 08:48 AM

A fresh test just run of the test mill:

Win2K (no service pack)
No VIA drivers
DirectX v8.1 Swedish
ATI 6071 WHQL drivers

Problem still the same as before though...

Jeff · Aug 5, 2002, 03:15 AM

It looks like you've tried almost everything, and my mind is blank on this one... Anyone else have any input?

Per Hansson · Aug 5, 2002, 05:22 AM

I tried to install a new BIOS now to, before I had version 7004 dated 2001/11/07, now I have upgraded to version 7008 dated 2002/04/22

I uninstalled the ATI driver before the install and flashed the BIOS then installed the driver again so that it would detect the card properly...

The problem didn't get solved though...

karlotta · Aug 5, 2002, 07:33 AM

You could have a corupt Win2k disk......do a google search for DX 8.0....but there was a issue with win2k and amd platforms..http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_756_759%5e871%5e2367,00.html

also go to M$ and check out the alert, and patchs:http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dndir3d/html/d3dpu.asp

but that is a new mobo , is ther a bios issue with it?

GL

Per Hansson · Aug 5, 2002, 04:37 PM

The Win2K disk has worked before including *cough* on other systems *cough*

But even if it was corrupt WinXP also does the same thing...

I already have the "Largepageminimum" fix installed...

There aren't any new(er) BIOS releases for it but the thing to remember is that it has worked before, and still does in Win98... (the mobo)

Thanks for your help though, much appreciated!

Jeff · Aug 5, 2002, 05:51 PM

Sorry I cant be of more help

UberLord · Aug 5, 2002, 06:45 PM

Have you tried NOT installing any VIA drivers? Sometimes installing them causes things to go badly wrong for some peeps whereas some swear by em. Personally I don't use em. Try it out - can't hurt can it?

Jeff · Aug 5, 2002, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cyborg
Have you tried it all without any VIA drivers?

Quote:

Originally posted by Per Hansson
A fresh test just run of the test mill:

Win2K (no service pack)
No VIA drivers
DirectX v8.1 Swedish
ATI 6071 WHQL drivers

Problem still the same as before though...

UberLord · Aug 5, 2002, 07:26 PM

DOH!! What about removing the Live! to see if thats causing a conflict?

Per Hansson · Aug 6, 2002, 06:27 PM

I removed the SB Live! and LAN card, used a fresh copy of Win2K but the results where the same...

karlotta · Aug 7, 2002, 05:34 AM

well it seems to be a issue with the NT kernel and that MoBo..... Did you ever get DX 8.0?
And what does SiSoft/ sandra say about your Via chip set.... have you gone to ViaHardware.com and post this on there Forun... George. is the guy to talk to!. he has some new patchs for the 4in1s.....GL

Per Hansson · Aug 7, 2002, 05:49 AM

Thanks for your tips, I will try them out and also visit VIAHardware

Digital-Overload · Aug 7, 2002, 11:42 AM

I had a Problem Where Every DirectX Game i Ran WOuld Crash to Desktop or Lockup.

NHL2002, NHL2001, Virtual Pool3 and some others.

I Fixed it By Going to DEvice Manager and Changing "ACPI COmpliant System" to "Standard PC"

Then Rebooted and Turned ACPI Off IN The BIOS,
Then When Windows Booted up again. it re-installed Everything on its OWN IRQ (instead of Sharing with 4 other Devices)

The Problem isnt the sharing.
But Creatives Drivers.
Sharing IRQ's Is Fine As Long AS the Drivers Stick Within the PCI Spec.
Creative's Drivers dont Stay within PCI 2.1 Spec so it Causes Problems and You SHould Have everything on itw own IRQ to Ensure Stability Betweeen Devices.

Per Hansson · Aug 7, 2002, 04:51 PM

It worked!

I used the ver of Win2K where I don't have any VIA drivers etc installed, and when I was to change to "Standard PC" I also noticed something strange, instead of being listed as "ACPI Advanced Configuration and Power Interface) like all my other recent mobo's has it was listed as "MPS Uniprocessor PC"

Well anyway I manually changed it to "Standard PC" restarted and disabled ACPI in the BIOS then brought the comp back up and everything works like a charm!

But it couldn't be the SB Live!'s fault since I removed that completely, so this has got to be a mobo which doesn't fully conform to the ACPI spec!

Thanks a thousand Digital-Overload for the tip, I owe you one

Stay tuned for more info!

[UPDATE] I tried changing from the default installed MPS Uniprocessor PC, to the one I would like it to be: "ACPI Advanced Configuration and Power Interface) PC" in WinXP, and it worked! (I also re-enabled ACPI in the BIOS)

I then went on to try the same thing in my default Win2K installation (the "work" installation if you'd like to call it that, here everything is installed, VIA drivers SB Live LAN etc, and it worked here to!!!

My MP3 and Movie issues are also gone now!

I assume that Win98 installs the correct ACPI layer by default so that's why it has worked...

I'll contact FIC about this issue, stay suned

karlotta · Aug 8, 2002, 03:11 AM

Digital-Overload · Aug 10, 2002, 11:10 PM

Its Not the Hardwares Fault.
Its the Software that Drives the Hardware.

Creative's Drivers are Never within PCI 2.1 Spec. So If you Run a Creative Card Sharing is Outta the question.

And As Long as the Drivers for it are present on the System or in Registry Sharing is outta the question.

So Even if the Card it self Was Taken out, the Drivers still modified the Windows Registry to make the SB Live work.

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Windows 2000 / XP are IRQ Sharing O/S's, Microsofts way of letting you install more stuff

Windows 98 Dont Share Unless absolutly required.

heeheemonkee · Aug 26, 2002, 02:04 PM

yea this topic is pretty old but i had the same problems and after i changed to "standard pc" and got rid of the apci.. my windows no longer automatically shuts down.. i have to manually power it off.. is there anyway to make it shut down by itself? im on win2000 btw

Per Hansson · Aug 26, 2002, 04:15 PM

under power managment in the control panel there should be an option for something similar to "APM" enable that...

heeheemonkee · Aug 26, 2002, 11:32 PM

in win2k i dont see anything with "apm" there are 4 tabs.. power schemes, advanced, hibernate and ups.. which one would apm be under cuz i dont see any check box with that

Horatio · Sep 9, 2002, 08:53 AM

I had read too many of these -- hang up problem with 8500/ 9000 Radeon Graphic card. I had the same problem too. I tried every possible methods....

I can only said that I suspect ATI had never have the driver written correctly for AMD CPU + VIA Chips systems.

What we can do now is to send more complaints message to ATI.

mallo · Jan 28, 2005, 08:02 AM

Hello,

I'm new and my english is poor so I'll try to be simply in word and concept and i hope that you too.

I have the same problem of Hansson; i follow discussion but i have WIN XP PRO SP2 and ABIT VH6-II motherboard with pentium III 1000 and Ati radeon 9600SE.

Direct3d don't work with WINXP
Direct3d work with WIN98

directx diag say "Direct3d disabled"
"agp acceleration disabled"

game don't work.

I have try to disabled ACPI control but unsuccesfully!!!
In list of hardware resources, there is the ACPI Advanced Configuration and Power Interface and my BIOS don't support manual disabled.

I have try to configure for not sharing IRQ but without effect.

HELP ME PLEASE.

mallo · Jan 28, 2005, 08:17 AM

I have tried all modify that hansson describe and nothing.