[HawgsHead]

EVERY trade publication I read is downright doging Windows Vista.Damning it!I have almost picked it up several times in the past month or so and was gonna go ahead and take the plunge.Is the OS THAT bad?As I said.EVERY THING I read says Vista is a complete clusterfuck!How long will it take Redmund to get the OS right?????.....or halfway right.

[Freulein]

If you need a Media Center with a modern GUI, Vista is a good choice.

[temeteus82]

Originally Posted by Freulein

If you need a Media Center with a modern GUI, Vista is a good choice.

Modern GUI, you only need WindowBlinds for update your GUI

[craig5320]

Vista is great, been running it without an xp install since christmas, even changed my laptop for a vista one, won't touch xp again.

[Zardon]

Originally Posted by HawgsHead

Vista is a complete clusterfuck!.

Stunned to see you using this language especially as you used to have jesus saves wording in your signature

As for your original question, no its not bad, its not perfect however most of the "articles" ive read about vista online are absolutely embarassing and generally inaccurate.

[HawgsHead]

Originally Posted by Zardon

Stunned to see you using this language especially as you used to have jesus saves wording in your signature

As for your original question, no its not bad, its not perfect however most of the "articles" ive read about vista online are absolutely embarassing and generally inaccurate.

Oh please Z.......Christians arent perfect....Just forgiven.....and He still saves!

[Zardon]

ah so a selective christian, I like those best. funny stuff man.

Anyway give vista a shot, worth a look.

[REGENERATION]

I'm using Vista for a few weeks and its pretty stable and nice, it’s not that bad like everyone says. However, drivers are not 100% perfect. However, Nvidia’s RAID driver caused some stability issues, so I had to use the Vista built-in RAID driver. ForceWare caused some problems as well, so I plugged ATI’s card instead. Creative’s drivers suck, but without any stability issues. The gaming performance is pretty standard with ATI's latest drivers.

[mike2h]

i agree, i installed home premium on my wifes comp, she likes the way it looks & is actually getting into 'exploring' some of its capabilities/adjustments.. something she has never done before.
once i got past the ati driver probs, the ms mouse(put my old mx1000 on & fixed that)& one care issues(put norton internet 07 on & fixed that..go figure)the rst was easy.
the new file & settings wizard is great, highly rec it.
i was going t owait to put my copy of ultimate on my comp for sp1, but if nv continues improving their drivers.... cant see any reason not to install it.
might be able to bullshit.. ahh... talk with the wife & see if some sort of hardware upgrade is appropriate
so far i really like what ms has done with vista.. except uac lol.

[Zardon]

Originally Posted by REGENERATION

I'm using Vista for a few weeks and its pretty stable and nice, it’s not that bad like everyone says. However, drivers are not 100% perfect. However, Nvidia’s RAID driver caused some stability drivers, so I had to use the included RAID driver. ForceWare caused some problems as well, so I plugged ATI’s card instead. Creative’s drivers suck, but without stability issues. The gaming performance is pretty standard with ATI's latest drivers.

yeah creative are terrible, they have made a total mess of their vista support. but overall ive found the drivers for the 32bit os are shaping up well, no major issues im finding. I find it hard to go back to XP now, although my main work machine is running XP (because its all set up and I only use it for work such as DH stuff). I miss some of vista's functionality though, like even basic things such as the huge thumbnails option which can help sort out files in a massive folder of stuff when in an app like photoshop.

Plenty of people say XP can be made to look (and act in some ways) like Vista etc, but all those plugins and interface mods really do just drag stability down, I don't care what anyone says. I tend to only install things i need to do something, and keep the OS as clean as possible.

[Judas]

I thoroughly enjoy vista...

I recommend it on all the new builds i do, the number of people coming is asking what vista's like, and they seemed stunned when i say i've had virtually no REAL problems with it at all.

[HawgsHead]

I'm just telling you what I read...heck,I havent even played with Vista on computers in stores.It sure seems like the media has something against it though.

[Golbeze]

Been using Vista since the beginning of February. Most of my problems (except for UAC, ended up just disabling that) were from immature drivers, but even that's being remedied. I say give it a go, install it and all the latest drivers for your hardware and see how it goes yourself. That's a philosophy I've taken, especially with big stuff like this; try something myself and give my own opinion about it.

[DudeBoyz]

I don't like Vista, and I've tested the heck out of it. I still have it running on a laptop until my bud gets back and I turn it back over to him.

I guess in a way Vista seems to XP like Windows ME was to 98 SE.

98 SE just flat out worked better, faster and easier than Windows ME. I think XP is the same way.

The interface changes in Vista are a pain in the arse. How they keep relocating configuration settings into modified, nested menu structures and crap like that is INCREDIBLY annoying.

They throw out the audio driver stuff and redo the whole code to be in software. They try hard to screw over OpenGL in favor of DX 10 even though OpenGL is widely supported by the Doom/Quake engine franchise. They focus on useless 3D interface features instead of making the WinFS updates work. They even impose a ton of new license restrictions, including limiting what you can do in terms of Virtual Machines, both on the Windows platform and on other platforms. Why shouldn't you be able to run Vista Home in a Parallels Virtual Machine on OS X if you want, for example?

Why is it that when a new MS OS comes out, you often have to replace your old drivers with new ones? Why can't they just keep things working from one version to another?

Why do they insist on changing default file locations? You had "My Documents" and then "Documents and Settings" and now "/USER". What a total pain! At least "/USER" is a much shorter path than that lame "Documents and Settings" thing. ALSO, what is the hassle with the 255 character file names? Why is there ANY sort of limit on the length of PATH NAMES and PATH LEVELS at all? Why does the CD file system not fully support 255 character file names properly?

Vista is not only a let down for what it contains, it is a letdown for what they left out.

I hope I can stick with XP for another 5 or more years. There has GOT to be a better solution down the road than Vista and I'll try to hold out as long as I can until it arrives.

[Judas]

One reason i think some of that changed is that viruses and the sort probly would default to looking in known directories.. if they don't excist... nothing can happen right?

just a guess..

[DudeBoyz]

Originally Posted by Judas

One reason i think some of that changed is that viruses and the sort probly would default to looking in known directories.. if they don't excist... nothing can happen right?

just a guess..

It's a thought, but I'm not sure how that might play out.

I can understand if they wanted to change system files and where they put DLL files, but some of the reshuffling, like the user data locations, seem arbitrary. All virus writers would have to do is update their code once with the new paths and that would be that.

Still, it is worth considering.

[dipstick]

Best OS to come from MS yet imho

[mike2h]

Originally Posted by dipstick

Best OS to come from MS yet imho

i think by the end of the year it will be. sp1 will be out by then. drivers should be sorted out(creative seems to be the big holdout) & most prog compatibilty issues should be fixed.
i can definetly relate to dudes last comment tho.

[genman1]

They even impose a ton of new license restrictions, including limiting what you can do in terms of Virtual Machines, both on the Windows platform and on other platforms. Why shouldn't you be able to run Vista Home in a Parallels Virtual Machine on OS X if you want, for example?

You may not be able to run Virtual Machine on Vista home but you can run it on the following.

(Windows Server 2003, Standard Edition (32-bit x86); Windows Server 2003, Standard x64 Edition; Windows Vista Business; Windows Vista Business 64-bit edition; Windows Vista Enterprise; Windows Vista Enterprise 64-bit edition; Windows Vista Ultimate; Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit edition; Windows XP Professional Edition ; Windows XP Professional x64 Edition ; Windows XP Tablet PC Edition)

From Microsoft

Overview
Save time and money as Virtual PC allows you to maintain the compatibility of legacy and custom applications during migration to new operating systems and increases the efficiency of support, development, and training staffs.

With Microsoft® Virtual PC 2007, you can create and run one or more virtual machines, each with its own operating system, on a single computer. This provides you with the flexibility to use different operating systems on one physical computer.

Get it here from MS

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...kInfoContainer

[Vampyromaniac]

I like Vista. It's not perfect, but pretty good. I think it's about a 50/50 in terms of whether it's a compelling upgrade from XP.

Best thing for me: performance. I love Superfetch, it makes things feel so much snappier than XP.

Worst thing for me: driver support. I hate all these hardware vendors taking their sweet time to come out with good drivers, if at all. I'm talking to you, M-Audio!

As for the negative press, some of it's true, some false, and some are just picking on little things that don't really matter to most people any way.

[DudeBoyz]

Originally Posted by genman1

You may not be able to run Virtual Machine on Vista home but you can run it on the following.

In my opinion, users should be legally allowed to run Microsoft Vista Home Basic or Vista Home Premium in a virtual machine on another platform if they want to - provided they do own a legal copy.

There should be NO restrictions in that regard at all. If you paid for Home Basic or Home Premium, you should be able to run it - period.

If I'm running Linux with VMWare, I should be able to install any legally purchased copy of Windows in a virtual machine as long as that OS is not installed on any other machine at the same time.

I'm not so concerned yet about Microsoft limiting virtual machines run from the Windows Vista side using their VM software. I can always use Parallels or VMWare on Windows to run virtual machines.

However, if I'm running Windows XP Home, I don't want Microsoft telling me that I'm not allowed to run Parallels or VMWare on that XP Home machine.

It's this kind of arrogant, monopolistic crap that makes me so mad at Microsoft and their business strategy.

They are limiting what you can do on your own system by simply forbidding behavior that is not as "profitable" for them as they would want.

That is inexcusable, in my opinion.

[DudeBoyz]

Originally Posted by Vampyromaniac

I like Vista. It's not perfect, but pretty good. I think it's about a 50/50 in terms of whether it's a compelling upgrade from XP.

Best thing for me: performance. I love Superfetch, it makes things feel so much snappier than XP.

Worst thing for me: driver support. I hate all these hardware vendors taking their sweet time to come out with good drivers, if at all. I'm talking to you, M-Audio!

I can understand your point. If you like it and you don't mind the issues that can come with an early adoption of a new release, then that's totally cool.

If Superfetch is good for you, then I'm also glad. For me, going Dual Core seems to have made Windows XP much snappier, so perhaps I would not notice much gain from Superfetch.

As for driver support, I blame Microsoft 100% on that.

What is the reason for a sound card driver not working on Vista when it worked just fine on XP? Because Microsoft choose to totally rework the driver architecture. They are focusing on software solutions instead of having manufacturers directly access the hardware on their own as they have in the past. Why couldn't they allow older drivers to still function at 100% of the level they did in XP, but also allow their new solution as an alternative?

It's like when Intel tried to push 64 bit Itanium ONLY down folks throats, making 32 bit support a software emulation afterthought. Folks did not like that. Along comes AMD, which simply adds-on 64 bit hardware support into the existing 32 bit hardware architecture, and they totally dominate the market. Why? Because they listened to what users had to say. Nobody wanted to give up a nicely working 32 bit system with no safety net and have to replace everything with 64 bit. They wanted a smoother, albeit slower, transition.

Let Vista be the transitional OS. Let the old driver sets work for DX 9 in Vista without any need for rewrites of any kind. If you want to use DX 10 level stuff, transition to that driver model when the hardware and the software catch up with things.

I feel that the potential benefits of Vista simply don't outweigh the hassles in terms of an UPGRADE scenario.

If you want to buy a 100% new machine that comes pre-installed with Vista and all the stuff works, then that's cool. But as an Upgrade on an existing system, I think Vista sucks.

[kris23]

vista is good but my comp just sucks.......it never kept up with me and you NEED the minimum 1gb ram dude

[Vampyromaniac]

Originally Posted by DudeBoyz

As for driver support, I blame Microsoft 100% on that.

What is the reason for a sound card driver not working on Vista when it worked just fine on XP? Because Microsoft choose to totally rework the driver architecture.

The hardware vendors write the drivers. I would agree with you if every vendor was having trouble. But since there are vendors who have decent working drivers already, there's no reason why they all shouldn't be ready.

Microsoft may have changed things with Vista, but change tends to happen over time. Or else maybe we would still be running Sound Blaster Pro's in real mode.

[Necrosis]

Originally Posted by Vampyromaniac

The hardware vendors write the drivers. I would agree with you if every vendor was having trouble. But since there are vendors who have decent working drivers already, there's no reason why they all shouldn't be ready.

Microsoft may have changed things with Vista, but change tends to happen over time. Or else maybe we would still be running Sound Blaster Pro's in real mode.

I've been reading thru Dudeboyz comments on a Vista, and I can only find two comments that are compelling.

1. Built in DRM in Vista...which can be worked around for the most part. Though if I want to output to digital source I should be able. However, most receivers have the same restrictions built in.

2. VM software really should work in any version. Honestly they do it because of Piracy but it's more like if you're a developer you should have to the bucks to buy the fancy pancy version of Windows.


There is basically two reasons to move to Vista right now.

A. Added security
B. Gaming

We can go back and fourth on if it's worth moving right now. Though I have yet to experience any major issues w/ Vista on gaming. However, saying Vista is like WinME is a bit off the mark never mind quite over blown. To me it's more like the early versions of XP right now. I loved 2K but it was sure nice to have some stuff just work under XP that wouldn't under 2K. For example some older games meant for the 9x kernel hated 2K. I don't have such great an example for Vista, but to me it does seem more solid & efficient once tweaked correctly.

One thing I was say about Vista is M$ is try to put the "gorilla hands" on their OS like Apple. For once M$ is telling hardware vendors the rules besides the other way around. Of course this means some things don't work now but OpenAL works great. Just a pain in how it's implemented but you can do it if you know how. It will just take time w/ the new kernel since you just can't slap on old drivers to work on top of it. It's like trying to make any NT based Windows work with 9x drivers!

[BlueMak]

I kinda like what someone said about Vista being like WinME. Not in features perhaps but the next OS from MS is coming out in a couple of years, right? The one with the features that didn't made it in Vista?

So far there are 3 reasons why I haven't moved to Vista.
1)My system XP, works so good now that the thought of starting all over is just a big NO.
2)Too expensive (retail version).
3)I highly doubt that I will not have problems with non Vista games under Vista, and if I am going to have to have XP installed as well, then why move to Vista (gaming), for Crytek's latest eye candy? No thanks, I never liked Far Cry either.

Cut the Vista price to 1/3 of what it is now, make it so that it is more compatible with older games, then we will talk.

[HawgsHead]

Originally Posted by Zardon

ah so a selective christian, I like those best. funny stuff man.

Anyway give vista a shot, worth a look.

Hmmmm......A little history lesson is in order here....the word fuck is not a nasty word.It was spoken in every court room in the USA and the UK up until the 1850's or so.It is an acronym.Fuck stands for "For Unlawful Carneil Knowledge".People were charged with this crime for centuries.It is pretty much the same thing as commandment 7: "Thou shalt not commit adultry".This used to be a crime.And in most places,punishable by death.{to the woman,if a man was cought he got off alot lighter}So, it depends how you see the word.

[Zardon]

well thanks for the history lesson hawks (get that from a van halen album perhaps ) (its "carnal" btw), but like quite a few things in life, what is historically accurate and what is deemed as socially acceptable within a certain religion are two different things. Also remember in 1850 doctors were sawing legs off people without anesthetic, society has somewhat moved on. However, Obviously if Christians in your area run around saying what we would class as "swear" words in your part of the states, thats very cool, but in most places across the world you dont often hear a christian in church after a prayer meeting saying "damn reverend that was one motherfu*king clusterfu*k of a speech!". You are however free to a certain extent to use whatever language you want on DH, I just found it rather unusual for you to be saying it so vehemently in regards to an operating system.

I am however an athest because I find most religions and religious people are so twisted in double standards and their own self importance that it is something I just do not want involved in.

Anyway this is hardly the place for this debate, did you ever actually end up trying Vista? Let's get the tread back on track (please!)

[HawgsHead]

Heck no!!!I'm not gonna shell out $450.00 to "try" anything!Hey,I know I'm gonna have to bite the bullet sometime and buy it.If for nothing else,the ability to play DX-10 games.......And as far as the spelling,the 1st post I made here at DH warned everyone about my spelling...it sucks!I spell everything just like it sounds......and my typing sucks too!!And I'm not raging on Vista.Just telling you guys what I read....thats all.

[Judas]

Originally Posted by Necrosis

I've been reading thru Dudeboyz comments on a Vista, and I can only find two comments that are compelling.

1. Built in DRM in Vista...which can be worked around for the most part. Though if I want to output to digital source I should be able. However, most receivers have the same restrictions built in.

2. VM software really should work in any version. Honestly they do it because of Piracy but it's more like if you're a developer you should have to the bucks to buy the fancy pancy version of Windows.


There is basically two reasons to move to Vista right now.

A. Added security
B. Gaming

I've actually had better luck getting digital out to work under vista properly vs xp. Course i haven't used it ALL that much, but under vista, quite often it either didn't work, or something would be slightly screwed up. It was just confusing. Where as vista, simply going into the sound manager, and setting the digital out as primary, then setting the audio sample rates and decoding capabilities couldn't possibly get easier. Next thing you know, everything is correctly decoding and running slick. It's exceptionally easier with Realtek setup, using the ProLogic II or the Dolby LIVE! resampling, all stereo or other forms of audio are resampled on the fly for the receiver over a digital connection, pretty much eliminating the need for an analog connection depending on the games your playing, or the music your listening to. I was quite impressed.

As for the VM, i'm actually quite oblivious to how it works let alone what it's used for. Seriously, HOW many people NEED it let alone use it? under what conditions would it be required, there is probably a VERY good reason why VM isn't included in the home zones. I mean there are alot of features in vista home premuim that majority of people will probably never use.




btw, a reverend that lives in town here never uses the "lords name in vain", but boy, she's got a mouth on her that occasionally shocks me.