Vista and 7.3 Display driver atikmdag stopped responding error

***Veridian3*** · Jul 26, 2007, 07:27 PM

Have been working with ATI on a fix for my issue and its now ok. Very simple change in the end which should make it into a driver soon.

Can i ask everyone with kmdag issues to post their scenario again so that ATI can try to replicate. Use this format and do not give any extra info unless asked:

Card:
OS:
Latest Driver which has this issue:
Scenario/steps to recreate:

Th3_VVr41th · Jul 27, 2007, 06:11 AM

ATI X1900XTX (included info below to specifically ID card)

Quote:

Graphics Card Manufacturer Built by ATI
Graphics Chipset Radeon X1900 Series
Device ID 7249
Vendor 1002

Subsystem ID 0B12
Subsystem Vendor ID 1002

Bus Type PCI Express
Current Bus Setting PCI Express x16

BIOS Version 009.012.005.002 [COLOR=darkred]<--- Are there any revisions?[/COLOR]
BIOS Part Number 113-A52021-110
BIOS Date 2006/04/24

Memory Size 512 MB
Memory Type DDR3

Vista Ultimate x32 & x64
7.7 catalyst (started with 7.2 catalysts)

Problem can be recreated by starting up ANY 3D application or any software which would increase the temp of the GPU to the point it would try and trigger the fan to speed up. At that point the ATIKMDAG error would occur as the fan would attempt to spin up, which would result in the driver resetting and the fan speed dropping to almost nothing, and the GPU continuing to heat up.

Basically a looping of the ATIKMDAG error each time the fan would attempt to spin up. This results in the GPU temps reaching in excess of 110c+ if left unchecked. Problem is resolved if a third party application is used (ATI Tool) to set the fan to 100%, OR, if another method of cooling is used to prevent the triggering of the automatic fan control. (In other words, keeping the GPU cool enough under load so it doesn't trigger the fan speed to be raised.)

Since 7.2 cats. the fan speed on my card has been off at idle as well. It barely spins which results in the GPU eventually reaching high enough temps, which, as you can guess, eventually triggers the auto fan which again, results in the ATIKMDAG error being thrown, and looping due to the driver resetting and the fan attemting to spin up.

I know it's not a hardware fault, as everything functions flawlessly as it should, with Windows XP. This only happens with VIsta. I have re-installed Vista several times (both versions) with the same results. So I know it is not related to a corrupt install or file somewhere...

thirtyandover · Jul 28, 2007, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Th3_VVr41th

Problem can be recreated by starting up ANY 3D application or any software which would increase the temp of the GPU to the point it would try and trigger the fan to speed up.
Basically a looping of the ATIKMDAG error each time the fan would attempt to spin up.

It barely spins which results in the GPU eventually reaching high enough temps, which, as you can guess, eventually triggers the auto fan which again, results in the ATIKMDAG error being thrown, and looping due to the driver resetting and the fan attemting to spin up

ATI Radeon X1950 Pro 512mb AGP
Vista Business x32
7.3 + 7.4 Catalyst

This could have been my words all over.
I haven't heard my card fan either except if I use the ATI Tool.
Although I have also found, that increasing the monitor Refresh Rate above 60 will also cause BSOD's.

***Veridian3*** · Jul 28, 2007, 06:40 PM

Thx guys, passing your info to ATI.

R3z!n · Jul 30, 2007, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veridian3

Thx guys, passing your info to ATI.

Just an FYI to all vista users this is not an ati or nvidia specific problem. See this post http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=25381 it is 92+ pages long on this error (for nivida only). There have been numorus posts on howto fix this error but none seem to work for all systems. Microsoft did release a beta test fix for this error but it did not work. This is an on going problem with 3rd party drivers and vista. Hopefully it gets fixed soon for all display adapters. I know this is not what everyone wanted to hear but it is a major issue with vista and you are not alone with it.

*CATALYSTCATCHER* · Jul 30, 2007, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R3z!n

Just an FYI to all vista users this is not an ati or nvidia specific problem. See this post http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=25381 it is 92+ pages long on this error (for nivida only). There have been numorus posts on howto fix this error but none seem to work for all systems. Microsoft did release a beta test fix for this error but it did not work. This is an on going problem with 3rd party drivers and vista. Hopefully it gets fixed soon for all display adapters. I know this is not what everyone wanted to hear but it is a major issue with vista and you are not alone with it.

Excellent observation, however I would like to clarify 1 major point regarding the "KMD has stopped responding" message.

The message is part of the Vista that is intended to improve the user experience. Meaning that rather than a completely hung system as may have occured in XP you end up with a situation where the OS restarts the offending driver and displays the message telling you so. This approach is better than a completely hung condition where you don't ever get any clues as to the source of the problem.

Unfortunately, the cause of the problem may be a bad driver but could also be the result of failing hardware. To complicate the problem even further the bad hardware may not even be directly related to the driver. Case in point the system memory occaisonally causes a problem that results in the message. This is the reason that there are so many solutions that only work for a few people.

I should also point out based on the comments of others that it is more than possible that a system runs XP flawlessly and runs into problems in the Vista world. I have seen this scenario a few times while migrating to Vista from a perfectly good XP system. In my case there was considerable graphics corruption prior to a crash to provide clues to marginal graphics memory that simply did not like running in the 3D Vista world.

In any case I thought I would drop in and confirm what Stu has be saying.

Yes we are aware of these problems and looking into them to close as many holes in our drivers as we can find.

I hope everyone will understand that 1 solution will probably not fix every one.

While we work on these issue please bear with us.

Also do your best to provide as much detail when reporting the problem.

Also consider using the Microsoft feedback mechanism that provides a memory dump back to their crash avoidance people. They too are trying to unravel these problems.

Thanks

Steve (aka CC)

R3z!n · Jul 30, 2007, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CATALYSTCATCHER

The message is part of the Vista that is intended to improve the user experience. Meaning that rather than a completely hung system as may have occured in XP you end up with a situation where the OS restarts the offending driver and displays the message telling you so.

Unfortunately, the cause of the problem may be a bad driver but could also be the result of failing hardware. To complicate the problem even further the bad hardware may not even be directly related to the driver. Case in point the system memory occaisonally causes a problem that results in the message. This is the reason that there are so many solutions that only work for a few people.

I should also point out based on the comments of others that it is more than possible that a system runs XP flawlessly and runs into problems in the Vista world. I have seen this scenario a few times while migrating to Vista from a perfectly good XP system. In my case there was considerable graphics corruption prior to a crash to provide clues to marginal graphics memory that simply did not like running in the 3D Vista world.

Steve (aka CC)

I agree its a TDR issue. Just some info I wanted to pass on, I run 2 systems 1 ati laptop with vista and I have not had an issue at all. The second system runs an nivida card, now on the link I posted for others to read to gather more info about this problem, this issue is across all nvida cards, its not specific to a driver or a card. Anyways I just wanted to pass this on to the ATI users and its nice to see someone from ATI respond so fast. Thanks for the input Steve.

R3z!n

Dostoyevsky77 · Aug 1, 2007, 05:48 PM

Hello. This is my first post to an ATI forum. I am an NVIDIA TRAITOR!

But I think we can learn some things from one another. Many of you probably already know the "display driver BLAH stopped responding and has successfully recovered" problem is not ATI-specific. NVIDIA has been suffering this since (as early as I can tell) early January, 2007 - a month before the official roll-out.

What does this mean to you, and why am I posing to this thread? First, it is in both our best interests to understand the nature of how this error spans both ATI and NVIDIA video cards. Second, as an avid overclocker, I want to understand my computer better.

If you want to learn more about what NVIDIA folk have done, you need only google "nvlddmkm", for it is that which stops responding for us. I have learned (as others have) that underclocking RAM helps. I am running some 8500s at 800, but tightened the latency to 4-4-4-8-1T to mitigate the occurance of "display driver stoped responding..."

However, others claim it's an overheating problem (probably because they are ignorant and don't realize ATI customers are also suffering the same issue). What we need, therefore, is a kind of communication between NVIDIA and ATI customers. If any of you know of forums other than these where ATI customers are posting complaints about this issue, please let me know. In the meantime, you can drop by the following link to see how many NVIDIA customers are suffering (probably) the exact same TDR error. Please join us:

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?s...=25381&st=1900

Cheers,

d

*CATALYSTCATCHER* · Aug 2, 2007, 11:41 AM

Hello, Dostoyevsky77, thanks for stopping by.

Your comments are appreciated and also ring very true in my ears. When I first encountered this thread I almost immediately googled the "stopped responding" message and found the NV thread. Which very quickly lead to the conclusion that most of the issues were likely, specific to a user system and configuration. I am not trying to fault those users in any way, I am just saying the PCs can be a pain in the a$$ sometimes.

I would like to point out that the "stopped responding" message is not really an error message, it is a progress message explaining the Vista has restarted the graphics driver to recover for what ever was keeping it busy. So we have no idea what the real error was, although the event log may have clues.

This is kinda like that engine light in most cars. It comes on to indicate a problem, but you have no idea what king of problem until someone tells you the underlying fault code. And even the fault code can be completely missleading. I have seen an ABS fault code being resolved by new wheel bearings. (Too much wobble in the wheel causing dropouts of the wheel rotation sensor. )

I apologize for arguing words and meaning and Detroit analogies, but it is a somewhat critical point. First of all it means there will not be a magic bullet that will fix everyone. Also, the "stopped responding" message just indicates an unkown problem.

Heat or OCing always reduce stability of the HW. Therefore it always makes good sence to cool or slow the clocks to try and differentiate a SW problem from a hardware problem. And possibly provide temporary relief from the frustration as a workaround.

In any case I agree with you that combining the knowledge and experience of both groups should help. All we need is a DMZ for that to occur :-)

We are doing our bit to eliminate any bugs we come across that may lead to these TDR issues. As is MS and I am sure NV.

Steve

ChaosMinionX · Aug 2, 2007, 02:26 PM

Need to disable the check for 8pin PCIE on the HD2900XT in CCC for Overdrive! Buying a new PSU is a pain in the ass lol

vf- · Aug 2, 2007, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CATALYSTCATCHER

The message is part of the Vista that is intended to improve the user experience. Meaning that rather than a completely hung system as may have occured in XP you end up with a situation where the OS restarts the offending driver and displays the message telling you so. This approach is better than a completely hung condition where you don't ever get any clues as to the source of the problem.

This is the thing that really puzzles me and is so frustrating that I'm no longer using Vista for the meantime thats on the other hard drive until this is sorted. As I'm dual booting between XP and Vista.

The problem is so inconsistent, that sometimes a game or 3D app will exit cleanly, yet other times it displays the driver reset, or! it hung Vista altogether as soon as you exit a game. Which ctrl alt del etc doesn't work and have no choice to do a hard restart. I never get the same symptom twice.

Another interesting thing when Vista has hardlocked, its not running the transparent Aero, its like something has happened that didn't allow Aero to go back to transparency.
I know Aero turns off the transparency when a 3D app is started so the game etc can run to its potential, but what was interesting when you exit to the desktop was the fact the whole computer was locked but Aero was stuck in the non transparent mode.

Perhaps this has to do with the same thing somebody on here spoke about. That the Vista WDDM controls the VPU Recovery entry that use to be in the Vista Catalyst Control Center, that is listed under XP.

Perhaps its that which is not working correctly that only Microsoft can sort? who knows. The more I used Vista the more bugs that had shown up.

*CATALYSTCATCHER* · Aug 3, 2007, 01:09 PM

Yes. The Vista TDR is very much the same as VPU recover.

The following link is the MS explanation for the "stopped responding" message.

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device...m_timeout.mspx

There are also some interesting registry keys that may be useful in determining the real source of the problem. If you disable TDR detection you may see further interesting clues . Errors or corruption. BUT THIS IS ONLY FOR DEVELOPERS or knowledgable users. I am not recommending that anyone try these keys.

I'm not quite sure that the TDR scenario really enhances the user experience as much as this document implies. Not because TDR is a bad idea, but because of the high amount of frustration the user experiences because the implied solution is to replace the named driver. The driver of course is not always the problem and the issue persists without any indication the problem may lie elsewhere.

For troubleshooting the TDR, I would,
1- Check fans and temps throughout the system. ie
2- because it's easy and relatively safe update the driver to see if it may have been fixed.
3- down/underclock graphics engine and memory. As well as the CPU and anywhere else you may have clock control. Memory bus, PCIe, AGP or PCI.
4- Try removing system ram if possible. Particularly if you have 4 sticks. Some mobos just don't like using 4 RAM sticks at high speed but can handle 2 without an issue. Use all the memory tricks (swapping, testing, etc) to see if there is even an impact on the frequency of the problem.

Keep in mind that you must know the actual cause of a problem before you can fix it.

Also, that Vista works the graphics diffently and potentially harder than XP because you always run in 3D mode. This may be why Aero is affected.

Also keep in mind that randomly occuring faults are almost always due to a hardware issue of some kind. Problems that can be easily reproduced, and always occur at exactly the same spot are usually due to a software bug.

Although the issue with fan control listed by "Th3_VVr41th" could easily be a software bug that manifests randomly due to the relation to GPU temps . This issue is under investigation.

*CATALYSTCATCHER* · Aug 3, 2007, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Th3_VVr41th

ATI X1900XTX (included info below to specifically ID card)

Vista Ultimate x32 & x64
7.7 catalyst (started with 7.2 catalysts)

Problem can be recreated by starting up ANY 3D application or any software which would increase the temp of the GPU to the point it would try and trigger the fan to speed up. At that point the ATIKMDAG error would occur as the fan would attempt to spin up, which would result in the driver resetting and the fan speed dropping to almost nothing, and the GPU continuing to heat up.

Basically a looping of the ATIKMDAG error each time the fan would attempt to spin up. This results in the GPU temps reaching in excess of 110c+ if left unchecked. Problem is resolved if a third party application is used (ATI Tool) to set the fan to 100%, OR, if another method of cooling is used to prevent the triggering of the automatic fan control. (In other words, keeping the GPU cool enough under load so it doesn't trigger the fan speed to be raised.)

Since 7.2 cats. the fan speed on my card has been off at idle as well. It barely spins which results in the GPU eventually reaching high enough temps, which, as you can guess, eventually triggers the auto fan which again, results in the ATIKMDAG error being thrown, and looping due to the driver resetting and the fan attemting to spin up.

I know it's not a hardware fault, as everything functions flawlessly as it should, with Windows XP. This only happens with VIsta. I have re-installed Vista several times (both versions) with the same results. So I know it is not related to a corrupt install or file somewhere...

Th3_VVr41th

It so happens I am using Vista and this same graphics card with a slightly older bios, but otherwise showing the same specs in CCC.

I have not been able to replicate the TDR error on my system using Catalyst 7.7 drivers.

I am using 3DMark, DEMO to run the temps up while running CCC >>OD tab on a second screen to view the temperature. The fan speed ramps up with the temps and keeps the GPU under 95C .

HOWEVER! If I use ati tool to set any fan speed it seems that the graphics card is no longer in control of the fan speed, even if ATITool is shut down.

It seems that restarting Vista restores driver control over the fan.

I have not tested but, I suspect that if ATItool is used to load a profile at Vista start time that it may prevent the display driver from controlling the fan speed.

In any case that leaves a couple of items to check.

- If you use ATITool make sure you disable the load on startup option.
- Do not run the the ATITool after a restart.
- Then you can check to see if the 1900 fan is ramping with temperature.
- and also see if the TDR error is still occuring.

I will admit that in my environment the fan can only be heard when it is at 100% so I had difficulty determining if the fan was actually ramping up.

Further steps will depend on what happens with the system. (ie the TDR errors continue when ATITool is taken out of the picture) But most likely, excessive heat causes the GPU to shut down at its failsafe maximum and results in the TDR.

Steve

Th3_VVr41th · Aug 3, 2007, 10:58 PM

Sorry for the delay in my reply, dealing with a cut feeder cable in my neighborhood It's wreaking havoc on many intenet connections... I'm lucky to get an hour or so a day of useable service... If that much...

As far as ATI tool preventing the driver from controling the fan, this is true ONCE ati tool is loaded. I don't have it automatically loading up at startup. I start it manually every time.

To rule out any questions of my fan problems being ATI Tool related, I have done FRESH installs of Vista with nothing but the OS itself and the Catalyst drivers, and my fan refuses to spin up. Any time it does try (once the gpu temp requires it), the ATIKMDAG pops right up, and the fan cuts off ( you're talking MAYBE a split second of the fan RPM starting to increase, then BAM!). My backup rig with the other x1900xtx is pretty much a clone of my main gaming rig (exactly the same hardware, only difference is the case), it too exhibits the same symptoms. That card has the exact same Bios revision, etc... as the info I already posted.

Two Identical cards has determined it is NOT any kind of hardware failure, as well as many hours of perfectly fine use in XP. This IS an issue with the drivers.

ATI should include the option to control/set the fan speed in the OD section of the drivers, at least then it wouldn't require a third party program. I'd be happy with that... for now...

*CATALYSTCATCHER* · Aug 4, 2007, 08:13 AM

To: Th3_VVr41th

Thanks for getting back and I sympathize with the internet issue.

Based on your comments it would seem we are going to have difficulty getting to the botton of this problem. I agree that 2 virtually identical configurations with the same problem almost completely removes the concern over a hardware problem. (Sorry, I have seen too many wierd problems to ever be 100% positive. 99.9% is about as close as I get until we find the source of the problem)

I believe that ATITool is simply updating the fan table values which originate from the BIOS of the GPU. And probably does not restore these values correctly when ATITool exists. However that implies that the ati driver is still actually controlling the fan based on the table updates. Now that is a theory I will try to confirm the validity of this theory.

Of course the implication of that theory is that the fan table is not set correctly in the first place. That could be the VIDEO bios. Or possibly something that happens incorrectly when the bios is copied to ram and then initializes. This process is controlled by the system bios and the PnP init process.

Speaking of RAM, I hope all your trouble shooting is being done at default clock speeds??
Have you tried running with only 2Gig to see if there is a relation ship to the problem??

Please keep in mind that thess are troubleshooting steps not solutions. I can tell from your system config that no compromise will do as you are shooting for the top.

Also keep in mind that from our perspective there is not a wide spread issue with fan control otherwise we whould have been inundated with complaints. Which we are not.
Therefore there is something else at play here and we need to determine what that is.

That being the case we can't fix the driver because it already works in our environment. And contrary to what some may think we do have considerable staff testing these things. As do all the board partners.

I guess will need to think about the next step. Unfortunately that will have to wait until next week when I get back to the office.

Stay in touch.

CC

Karhis · Aug 6, 2007, 09:42 AM

Hello everybody,

I am too suffering from this problem with my Fujitsu-Siemens Amilo Xi1546 laptop and ATI Mobility Radeon X1800 graphics card. The funny thing here is that the drivers that Fujitsu provides for Windows Vista are "unsupported" so I doubt that contacting them is an option. And contacting ATI technical support is also a bit problematic since they provide no drivers for Mobile GPU's & Windows Vista. Drivers modified by third-party tool like mobility modder probably aren't supported

Anyway, back to the problem, there are no any certain steps to reproduce it - the display adapter just resets itself at some point when playing recent 3D-games like "Company of Heroes", "Command & Conquer 3 Tiberium Wars" or "Test Drive Unlimited" for example. Usually the computer doesn't lock up, the screen just goes blank for a few seconds and after that the game continues normally. However from the system logs I can see that the display adapter has been reset. If I keep playing for some time, graphical anomalities start to appear and finally the whole system usually locks up. The behavior is same with Fujitsu-Siemens provided drivers (dunno on which release of Catalyst they are based on, probably 7.2), Catalyst 7.6 and Catalyst 7.7.

I also tried out ATITools but I couldn't find the option to control fan speed there. Probably the Mobility GPU's aren't supported. I haven't tried to underclock the card or any other "solutions / troubleshooting" mentioned here, except for disabling the Aero-feature of Vista because this notebook isn't my primary gaming rig. Nevertheless, it would be nice to use it for occasional gaming sometimes

drharis · Aug 6, 2007, 12:00 PM

Dear all

just want to add the same error message to this thread. As I am not a PC specialist, I can just follow this thread by reading. Maybe the guy from where I bought by PC can carry out some tests and change some settings.

So here we go:

My system is AMD 64 x2 5200, 1950 Pro, 2 GB RAM (Kingston I think), Vista Home Premium. The error message appeared under Vista when mousing over the aero menus and also when checking the 3D settings in the Catalyst Control Center. I tried the CCC versions 7.3 to 7.7. The problem also occurs when the ATI driver is completely uninstalled. The error message is then "Display driver R300 is not responding". Just to add, that I have not tested ANY games until now!

Sometimes after getting the error 5 or 6 times back-to-back, the system completely hung up (black screen, no re-/action anymore). In that very moment, something inside the case switches on and gets very noisy - apparently the fan of whatever. However, after immediate cold restart vista runs completely stable! I can run dozens of applications, use the Vista aero effects, check the 3D settings of CCC etc.

cheers from germany

...keeping on reading and waiting...

feav66 · Aug 7, 2007, 03:29 PM

Hi all.

You can add me to the list. I have had this problem since I built my pc in March. For me it is very easy to replicate the problem, basically when ever I boot the pc from cold it will be fine until I try to load the graphics card by opening a a window or browsing menues, at which point the screen goes blank and recovers with the error message atikmdag stopped responding.
Now at this point all have have to do is restart my pc and it will work fine. I suspect this is because once the the card is warmed up enough for the fan to start before windows loads there is not problem. I certainly agree that this this is a conflict between vista and the driver which controls the fan because every time the the crash occurs I can hear the graphics card fan kick in and then stop again once vista has recovered.

My system specs.

Asus P5B Mother board.
Intel E6600 Processor.
HIS ATi Radion x1950pro grapics card.
2 Gigs OCZ PC6400 RAM
Windows Vista home premeium 64 bit.

*CATALYSTCATCHER* · Aug 7, 2007, 03:58 PM

Hello Karhis

I don't know much about the notebook implimentations. However you should try contacting the proper FS tech people to see if they are aware of any similar problems with your specific laptop. Or check their WEB site for any indication of a similar problem. Being the manufacturer of the laptop they will be painfully aware os any widespread issue affecting their product. We at ATI are one step removed because we provide the graphics asic to the manufacturer.

Hello drharis,

I presume the R300 message is occuring when the MS driver for the graphics card is installed after removing the ATI driver.

Hello feav66

What temperatures are showing on the GPU when it crashes?

Are you overclocking the system?

Have you tried running the fan at 100% (using ATITool) to confirm that more cooling cures the problem.

Have you tried any other troubleshooting? and what were the results.

We still don't understand what is leading to or affecting the fan speed control but only for some people. So we need all the info that can be provided.

I would like to add that the the fan kicking into high gear momentarily is normal when the graphics card is restarted. It should also do the same thing when you first power up the system and then spin down to a low spead. They same is usually true for the CPU fan in the system when you power up.

Steve

***Veridian3*** · Aug 7, 2007, 04:32 PM

Mobility people, can you all make sure you are using Cat 7.7 (modded by our mod tool). I used to get the error all the time on my X1400 based laptop however cant remember seeing it since i applied 7.7.

feav66 · Aug 7, 2007, 05:59 PM

Hello Catalystcatcher.

It is good to know that people are looking for a solution to this problem.
Unfortunately it is difficult to know the temperature of my card when it crashes because as soon as I try to open any kind of application after first boot up the computer will lock up and go into a cycle of blank screens and recovery until I either restart or the system locks up completely. Usually when it locks completely I am left with a blank screen and the fan running at 100%.

On occasions windows has blue screened and dumped the memory and after restarting informed me that the error was caused by the ATI driver.
The strange thing is once the computer has warmed up I can restart as often as I like without a problem, but once the system has been allowed to cool for 5 to 10 minutes the same will happen again.
I suspect the graphics card is over heating before the crashes because if it is left idle for too long before I restart there will be screen corruption before it locks up and crashes.

I have never had any problems whilst running 3D games, but I have never noticed any change in the fan speed while paying or exiting games.
My system is running with the processor at 3GHz every thing else at stock. The problem also occurred when running the processor at stock.

I have tried all drivers from 7.2 up to 7.6 but have not installed the catalyst control centre since the 7.2 because windows error log was showing it was causing problems.

*CATALYSTCATCHER* · Aug 7, 2007, 07:23 PM

feav66,

Have you replaced the graphics card or tried it in a different system?

Does it work in XP?

With a problem as you describe (completely intolerable problem) you must get very rigorous about troubleshooting the problem.

This means clocking everything to stock speeds and only changing 1 thing at a time until you find a change that alters the problem. (Completely resolves the problem would be nice but in many cases it is not that easy so you settle for a change in the frequency of the problem as a major step in coming to a solution. It is progress.)

It is very strange that your problems occur after a cold start, but seem to clear up as the system warms up. This is more likely a power issue at startup than a heat related problem as the cards in the system are usually tested (4 corner test) at hi and low temp using hi and low voltage.

If you are really unlucky a card in the system, (graphics or motherboard, or possibly even a memory stick) could have a trace or connection that is sensitive to the temperature and needs to warm up to work better.

Temperature monitoring is easiest using CCC. There is a display of GPU heat on the OD page.

If you can't get CCC to work you might consider a cheap indoor/outdoor digital thermometer and place the outdoror probe on the heatsink to get an idea what is happening. (Some PC cases also have this kind of gadget that could be used.)

Also if you look further back in this thread you will find some interesting ideas regarding other tests that could be tried. (Looking for that change I mentioned earlier)

On the other hand you could try warming the PC prior to powering up from cold to see if anything changes.

Or simply hold the reset button down for a few seconds when powering up from cold.

Let us know how it goes.

CC

Spyre · Aug 8, 2007, 01:53 AM

For people having this issue it may be worth trying this new vista update:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=938194

ksporry · Aug 10, 2007, 04:49 AM

Has anyone had this problem with teh latest ATI graphic cards that are supposed to be Vista proof and Dirext X10 proof? (e.g. the 2900 etc)

Kizo · Aug 10, 2007, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksporry

Has anyone had this problem with teh latest ATI graphic cards that are supposed to be Vista proof and Dirext X10 proof? (e.g. the 2900 etc)

I have HD 2600XT, Cats 7.7 and Vista Enterprise x32. I have so far tried Oblivion, F.E.A.R. Extraction Point, R6: Vegas and CS:S , and I must say I have not encoutered a single problem with them. (I play at 1024x768, which is my LCD's native res)
On the other hand, there is a little performance issue regarding the use of Adaptive AA in Oblivion and Source games (which I heard that is being resolved in Cats 7.8). Also a little problem is that the PC won't wake up from Sleep mode (hope it gets resolved soon). And there is a little performance problem with CS 1.6 when the renderer is set at D3D, but it's Ok if it's OGL.
Apart from these 3 problems, there are none that I have noticed so far.

Cheers.

***Veridian3*** · Aug 10, 2007, 08:44 AM

ksporry,
I had one specific instance on the 2900 however this has since been fixed by ATI.

ksporry · Aug 10, 2007, 11:09 AM

So, it sounds like those new 2x series ATI cards don't have any problems like the 1 series and the NVIDIA cards have...

Spyre · Aug 10, 2007, 12:27 PM

Its not like every 1x00 card has this issue, I have used a 1600 and 2 1900s in Vista without any issues like this.

*CATALYSTCATCHER* · Aug 10, 2007, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyre

Its not like every 1x00 card has this issue, I have used a 1600 and 2 1900s in Vista without any issues like this.

That's true, for example the fan speed issue with the X1900, mentioned earlier in the thread has not been duplicated in house. The KMD not responding issues all tend to be unique. There is no single cause.

shaquatch · Aug 10, 2007, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyre

For people having this issue it may be worth trying this new vista update:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=938194

Thank you for the link.
I did this update last night. I still get the black screen flash and atikmdag not responding error. I can also turn up the fan with ati tool, but this only lasts for a little while and goes right back to the black screen flash.

Aug 2, 2007, 02:26 PM	#100
ChaosMinionX USB 3 dot oh Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: New York Posts: 2,182 Rep Power: 31 System Specs	Need to disable the check for 8pin PCIE on the HD2900XT in CCC for Overdrive! Buying a new PSU is a pain in the ass lol __________________ ::Heatware:: How you can help DriverHeaven by using Digg!

Aug 3, 2007, 10:58 PM	#104
Th3_VVr41th DriverHeaven Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NYC, N.Y. Posts: 55 Rep Power: 17	Sorry for the delay in my reply, dealing with a cut feeder cable in my neighborhood It's wreaking havoc on many intenet connections... I'm lucky to get an hour or so a day of useable service... If that much... As far as ATI tool preventing the driver from controling the fan, this is true ONCE ati tool is loaded. I don't have it automatically loading up at startup. I start it manually every time. To rule out any questions of my fan problems being ATI Tool related, I have done FRESH installs of Vista with nothing but the OS itself and the Catalyst drivers, and my fan refuses to spin up. Any time it does try (once the gpu temp requires it), the ATIKMDAG pops right up, and the fan cuts off ( you're talking MAYBE a split second of the fan RPM starting to increase, then BAM!). My backup rig with the other x1900xtx is pretty much a clone of my main gaming rig (exactly the same hardware, only difference is the case), it too exhibits the same symptoms. That card has the exact same Bios revision, etc... as the info I already posted. Two Identical cards has determined it is NOT any kind of hardware failure, as well as many hours of perfectly fine use in XP. This IS an issue with the drivers. ATI should include the option to control/set the fan speed in the OD section of the drivers, at least then it wouldn't require a third party program. I'd be happy with that... for now... __________________ Everything and everyone, eventually fade into Oblivion.

Aug 8, 2007, 01:53 AM	#113
Spyre DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: England Posts: 1,217 Rep Power: 48	For people having this issue it may be worth trying this new vista update: http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=938194 __________________ ATI Beta Tester game.AMD.Moderator

Aug 10, 2007, 12:27 PM	#118
Spyre DriverHeaven Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: England Posts: 1,217 Rep Power: 48	Its not like every 1x00 card has this issue, I have used a 1600 and 2 1900s in Vista without any issues like this. __________________ ATI Beta Tester game.AMD.Moderator

Jul 26, 2007, 07:27 PM	#91
*Veridian3* Administrator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cloaked Posts: 2,999 Rep Power: 72	Have been working with ATI on a fix for my issue and its now ok. Very simple change in the end which should make it into a driver soon. Can i ask everyone with kmdag issues to post their scenario again so that ATI can try to replicate. Use this format and do not give any extra info unless asked: Card: OS: Latest Driver which has this issue: Scenario/steps to recreate:

Jul 28, 2007, 06:40 PM	#94
*Veridian3* Administrator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cloaked Posts: 2,999 Rep Power: 72	Thx guys, passing your info to ATI.

Aug 1, 2007, 05:48 PM	#98
Dostoyevsky77 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2 Rep Power: 0	Hello. This is my first post to an ATI forum. I am an NVIDIA TRAITOR! But I think we can learn some things from one another. Many of you probably already know the "display driver BLAH stopped responding and has successfully recovered" problem is not ATI-specific. NVIDIA has been suffering this since (as early as I can tell) early January, 2007 - a month before the official roll-out. What does this mean to you, and why am I posing to this thread? First, it is in both our best interests to understand the nature of how this error spans both ATI and NVIDIA video cards. Second, as an avid overclocker, I want to understand my computer better. If you want to learn more about what NVIDIA folk have done, you need only google "nvlddmkm", for it is that which stops responding for us. I have learned (as others have) that underclocking RAM helps. I am running some 8500s at 800, but tightened the latency to 4-4-4-8-1T to mitigate the occurance of "display driver stoped responding..." However, others claim it's an overheating problem (probably because they are ignorant and don't realize ATI customers are also suffering the same issue). What we need, therefore, is a kind of communication between NVIDIA and ATI customers. If any of you know of forums other than these where ATI customers are posting complaints about this issue, please let me know. In the meantime, you can drop by the following link to see how many NVIDIA customers are suffering (probably) the exact same TDR error. Please join us: http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?s...=25381&st=1900 Cheers, d

Aug 2, 2007, 11:41 AM	#99
CATALYSTCATCHER ATI Guru Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: ATI, Toronto Posts: 559 Rep Power: 40	Hello, Dostoyevsky77, thanks for stopping by. Your comments are appreciated and also ring very true in my ears. When I first encountered this thread I almost immediately googled the "stopped responding" message and found the NV thread. Which very quickly lead to the conclusion that most of the issues were likely, specific to a user system and configuration. I am not trying to fault those users in any way, I am just saying the PCs can be a pain in the a$$ sometimes. I would like to point out that the "stopped responding" message is not really an error message, it is a progress message explaining the Vista has restarted the graphics driver to recover for what ever was keeping it busy. So we have no idea what the real error was, although the event log may have clues. This is kinda like that engine light in most cars. It comes on to indicate a problem, but you have no idea what king of problem until someone tells you the underlying fault code. And even the fault code can be completely missleading. I have seen an ABS fault code being resolved by new wheel bearings. (Too much wobble in the wheel causing dropouts of the wheel rotation sensor. ) I apologize for arguing words and meaning and Detroit analogies, but it is a somewhat critical point. First of all it means there will not be a magic bullet that will fix everyone. Also, the "stopped responding" message just indicates an unkown problem. Heat or OCing always reduce stability of the HW. Therefore it always makes good sence to cool or slow the clocks to try and differentiate a SW problem from a hardware problem. And possibly provide temporary relief from the frustration as a workaround. In any case I agree with you that combining the knowledge and experience of both groups should help. All we need is a DMZ for that to occur :-) We are doing our bit to eliminate any bugs we come across that may lead to these TDR issues. As is MS and I am sure NV. Steve

Aug 3, 2007, 01:09 PM	#102
CATALYSTCATCHER ATI Guru Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: ATI, Toronto Posts: 559 Rep Power: 40	Yes. The Vista TDR is very much the same as VPU recover. The following link is the MS explanation for the "stopped responding" message. http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device...m_timeout.mspx There are also some interesting registry keys that may be useful in determining the real source of the problem. If you disable TDR detection you may see further interesting clues . Errors or corruption. BUT THIS IS ONLY FOR DEVELOPERS or knowledgable users. I am not recommending that anyone try these keys. I'm not quite sure that the TDR scenario really enhances the user experience as much as this document implies. Not because TDR is a bad idea, but because of the high amount of frustration the user experiences because the implied solution is to replace the named driver. The driver of course is not always the problem and the issue persists without any indication the problem may lie elsewhere. For troubleshooting the TDR, I would, 1- Check fans and temps throughout the system. ie 2- because it's easy and relatively safe update the driver to see if it may have been fixed. 3- down/underclock graphics engine and memory. As well as the CPU and anywhere else you may have clock control. Memory bus, PCIe, AGP or PCI. 4- Try removing system ram if possible. Particularly if you have 4 sticks. Some mobos just don't like using 4 RAM sticks at high speed but can handle 2 without an issue. Use all the memory tricks (swapping, testing, etc) to see if there is even an impact on the frequency of the problem. Keep in mind that you must know the actual cause of a problem before you can fix it. Also, that Vista works the graphics diffently and potentially harder than XP because you always run in 3D mode. This may be why Aero is affected. Also keep in mind that randomly occuring faults are almost always due to a hardware issue of some kind. Problems that can be easily reproduced, and always occur at exactly the same spot are usually due to a software bug. Although the issue with fan control listed by "Th3_VVr41th" could easily be a software bug that manifests randomly due to the relation to GPU temps . This issue is under investigation.

Aug 4, 2007, 08:13 AM	#105
CATALYSTCATCHER ATI Guru Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: ATI, Toronto Posts: 559 Rep Power: 40	To: Th3_VVr41th Thanks for getting back and I sympathize with the internet issue. Based on your comments it would seem we are going to have difficulty getting to the botton of this problem. I agree that 2 virtually identical configurations with the same problem almost completely removes the concern over a hardware problem. (Sorry, I have seen too many wierd problems to ever be 100% positive. 99.9% is about as close as I get until we find the source of the problem) I believe that ATITool is simply updating the fan table values which originate from the BIOS of the GPU. And probably does not restore these values correctly when ATITool exists. However that implies that the ati driver is still actually controlling the fan based on the table updates. Now that is a theory I will try to confirm the validity of this theory. Of course the implication of that theory is that the fan table is not set correctly in the first place. That could be the VIDEO bios. Or possibly something that happens incorrectly when the bios is copied to ram and then initializes. This process is controlled by the system bios and the PnP init process. Speaking of RAM, I hope all your trouble shooting is being done at default clock speeds?? Have you tried running with only 2Gig to see if there is a relation ship to the problem?? Please keep in mind that thess are troubleshooting steps not solutions. I can tell from your system config that no compromise will do as you are shooting for the top. Also keep in mind that from our perspective there is not a wide spread issue with fan control otherwise we whould have been inundated with complaints. Which we are not. Therefore there is something else at play here and we need to determine what that is. That being the case we can't fix the driver because it already works in our environment. And contrary to what some may think we do have considerable staff testing these things. As do all the board partners. I guess will need to think about the next step. Unfortunately that will have to wait until next week when I get back to the office. Stay in touch. CC

Aug 6, 2007, 09:42 AM	#106
Karhis DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Finland Posts: 6 Rep Power: 0	Hello everybody, I am too suffering from this problem with my Fujitsu-Siemens Amilo Xi1546 laptop and ATI Mobility Radeon X1800 graphics card. The funny thing here is that the drivers that Fujitsu provides for Windows Vista are "unsupported" so I doubt that contacting them is an option. And contacting ATI technical support is also a bit problematic since they provide no drivers for Mobile GPU's & Windows Vista. Drivers modified by third-party tool like mobility modder probably aren't supported Anyway, back to the problem, there are no any certain steps to reproduce it - the display adapter just resets itself at some point when playing recent 3D-games like "Company of Heroes", "Command & Conquer 3 Tiberium Wars" or "Test Drive Unlimited" for example. Usually the computer doesn't lock up, the screen just goes blank for a few seconds and after that the game continues normally. However from the system logs I can see that the display adapter has been reset. If I keep playing for some time, graphical anomalities start to appear and finally the whole system usually locks up. The behavior is same with Fujitsu-Siemens provided drivers (dunno on which release of Catalyst they are based on, probably 7.2), Catalyst 7.6 and Catalyst 7.7. I also tried out ATITools but I couldn't find the option to control fan speed there. Probably the Mobility GPU's aren't supported. I haven't tried to underclock the card or any other "solutions / troubleshooting" mentioned here, except for disabling the Aero-feature of Vista because this notebook isn't my primary gaming rig. Nevertheless, it would be nice to use it for occasional gaming sometimes

Aug 6, 2007, 12:00 PM	#107
drharis DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1 Rep Power: 0	Dear all just want to add the same error message to this thread. As I am not a PC specialist, I can just follow this thread by reading. Maybe the guy from where I bought by PC can carry out some tests and change some settings. So here we go: My system is AMD 64 x2 5200, 1950 Pro, 2 GB RAM (Kingston I think), Vista Home Premium. The error message appeared under Vista when mousing over the aero menus and also when checking the 3D settings in the Catalyst Control Center. I tried the CCC versions 7.3 to 7.7. The problem also occurs when the ATI driver is completely uninstalled. The error message is then "Display driver R300 is not responding". Just to add, that I have not tested ANY games until now! Sometimes after getting the error 5 or 6 times back-to-back, the system completely hung up (black screen, no re-/action anymore). In that very moment, something inside the case switches on and gets very noisy - apparently the fan of whatever. However, after immediate cold restart vista runs completely stable! I can run dozens of applications, use the Vista aero effects, check the 3D settings of CCC etc. cheers from germany ...keeping on reading and waiting...

Aug 7, 2007, 03:29 PM	#108
feav66 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2 Rep Power: 0	Hi all. You can add me to the list. I have had this problem since I built my pc in March. For me it is very easy to replicate the problem, basically when ever I boot the pc from cold it will be fine until I try to load the graphics card by opening a a window or browsing menues, at which point the screen goes blank and recovers with the error message atikmdag stopped responding. Now at this point all have have to do is restart my pc and it will work fine. I suspect this is because once the the card is warmed up enough for the fan to start before windows loads there is not problem. I certainly agree that this this is a conflict between vista and the driver which controls the fan because every time the the crash occurs I can hear the graphics card fan kick in and then stop again once vista has recovered. My system specs. Asus P5B Mother board. Intel E6600 Processor. HIS ATi Radion x1950pro grapics card. 2 Gigs OCZ PC6400 RAM Windows Vista home premeium 64 bit.

Aug 7, 2007, 03:58 PM	#109
CATALYSTCATCHER ATI Guru Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: ATI, Toronto Posts: 559 Rep Power: 40	Hello Karhis I don't know much about the notebook implimentations. However you should try contacting the proper FS tech people to see if they are aware of any similar problems with your specific laptop. Or check their WEB site for any indication of a similar problem. Being the manufacturer of the laptop they will be painfully aware os any widespread issue affecting their product. We at ATI are one step removed because we provide the graphics asic to the manufacturer. Hello drharis, I presume the R300 message is occuring when the MS driver for the graphics card is installed after removing the ATI driver. Hello feav66 What temperatures are showing on the GPU when it crashes? Are you overclocking the system? Have you tried running the fan at 100% (using ATITool) to confirm that more cooling cures the problem. Have you tried any other troubleshooting? and what were the results. We still don't understand what is leading to or affecting the fan speed control but only for some people. So we need all the info that can be provided. I would like to add that the the fan kicking into high gear momentarily is normal when the graphics card is restarted. It should also do the same thing when you first power up the system and then spin down to a low spead. They same is usually true for the CPU fan in the system when you power up. Steve

Aug 7, 2007, 04:32 PM	#110
*Veridian3* Administrator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cloaked Posts: 2,999 Rep Power: 72	Mobility people, can you all make sure you are using Cat 7.7 (modded by our mod tool). I used to get the error all the time on my X1400 based laptop however cant remember seeing it since i applied 7.7.

Aug 7, 2007, 05:59 PM	#111
feav66 DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2 Rep Power: 0	Hello Catalystcatcher. It is good to know that people are looking for a solution to this problem. Unfortunately it is difficult to know the temperature of my card when it crashes because as soon as I try to open any kind of application after first boot up the computer will lock up and go into a cycle of blank screens and recovery until I either restart or the system locks up completely. Usually when it locks completely I am left with a blank screen and the fan running at 100%. On occasions windows has blue screened and dumped the memory and after restarting informed me that the error was caused by the ATI driver. The strange thing is once the computer has warmed up I can restart as often as I like without a problem, but once the system has been allowed to cool for 5 to 10 minutes the same will happen again. I suspect the graphics card is over heating before the crashes because if it is left idle for too long before I restart there will be screen corruption before it locks up and crashes. I have never had any problems whilst running 3D games, but I have never noticed any change in the fan speed while paying or exiting games. My system is running with the processor at 3GHz every thing else at stock. The problem also occurred when running the processor at stock. I have tried all drivers from 7.2 up to 7.6 but have not installed the catalyst control centre since the 7.2 because windows error log was showing it was causing problems.

Aug 7, 2007, 07:23 PM	#112
CATALYSTCATCHER ATI Guru Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: ATI, Toronto Posts: 559 Rep Power: 40	feav66, Have you replaced the graphics card or tried it in a different system? Does it work in XP? With a problem as you describe (completely intolerable problem) you must get very rigorous about troubleshooting the problem. This means clocking everything to stock speeds and only changing 1 thing at a time until you find a change that alters the problem. (Completely resolves the problem would be nice but in many cases it is not that easy so you settle for a change in the frequency of the problem as a major step in coming to a solution. It is progress.) It is very strange that your problems occur after a cold start, but seem to clear up as the system warms up. This is more likely a power issue at startup than a heat related problem as the cards in the system are usually tested (4 corner test) at hi and low temp using hi and low voltage. If you are really unlucky a card in the system, (graphics or motherboard, or possibly even a memory stick) could have a trace or connection that is sensitive to the temperature and needs to warm up to work better. Temperature monitoring is easiest using CCC. There is a display of GPU heat on the OD page. If you can't get CCC to work you might consider a cheap indoor/outdoor digital thermometer and place the outdoror probe on the heatsink to get an idea what is happening. (Some PC cases also have this kind of gadget that could be used.) Also if you look further back in this thread you will find some interesting ideas regarding other tests that could be tried. (Looking for that change I mentioned earlier) On the other hand you could try warming the PC prior to powering up from cold to see if anything changes. Or simply hold the reset button down for a few seconds when powering up from cold. Let us know how it goes. CC

Aug 10, 2007, 04:49 AM	#114
ksporry DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 16 Rep Power: 0	Has anyone had this problem with teh latest ATI graphic cards that are supposed to be Vista proof and Dirext X10 proof? (e.g. the 2900 etc)

Aug 10, 2007, 08:44 AM	#116
*Veridian3* Administrator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cloaked Posts: 2,999 Rep Power: 72	ksporry, I had one specific instance on the 2900 however this has since been fixed by ATI.

Aug 10, 2007, 11:09 AM	#117
ksporry DriverHeaven Newbie Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 16 Rep Power: 0	So, it sounds like those new 2x series ATI cards don't have any problems like the 1 series and the NVIDIA cards have...