AF-Domains.net

Greetings,

I recently started using the kX audio driver, definitely one hell of an improvement over the default.

I've been experiencing missing drums in certain midi files when using the following soundfont SYNTHGMS.sf2 (AWE32 type not from Finale), although this is partially resolved when using another soundfont alongside it, there are still certain midi files where the drums are more or less completely absent.

I had a look through the various topics related to the missing drums, even though they were to do with an earlier version, didn't make any difference.

Had a fiddle around with the Driver and Synth Compatibility dialogues aswell just incase, no change unfortunately.

There've also been a few other instrument oddities, such as random and/or repeated notes.

When using the default Creative drivers, this issue does not arise, going back to them again isn't desirable.

I'm using a Sound Blaster Audigy 2 currently on Windows XP SP3 32-bit.

Is there anything I could be missing that may resolve or improve upon this?

Thanks,

Russ

It is possible that those midi files are using a drum kit that does not exist in that soundfont.

AF-Domains.net

That did come to mind at one point, this doesn't seem to be the case though.

The drumkit definitely exists in the soundfont.

I tend to get varying results depending on what soundfonts I load and the combination.

There are 2 midis in particular that will not recognise the drumkit that exists in the soundfont without going back to the Creative drivers.

Whenever I loaded up a soundfont through that system, I replaced it, didn't want the original one loaded up at all.

I used SynthFont with the soundfont in question loaded up, the drumkit played correctly in the midi file, upon switching to the kX Synth output, the drums would either disappear or get replaced with the wrong insrument.

Russ

I am not familiar with SynthFont, but I downloaded it and did some quick testing. It appears that if a MIDI file uses a drum kit that is not present in the SF2 file, it (SynthFont) automatically uses a different kit (with it's synth engine). Other MIDI programs may not do this (while others might only use the standard kit), thus you may get different results depending on what application is used for playback.

SYNTHGMS.SF2 appears to only have the standard kit.

AF-Domains.net

I'll do some further testing with the soundfonts and midi files here to see what's going on.

Russ

Set SynthFont to use a different soundfont (one with more drum kits... e.g. you could try the GeneralUser GS soundfont, which has like 11 drum kits), and you will probably see that those MIDI files are set to use a different kit.

AF-Domains.net

Oddly enough, the drumkits in the midi files do work when used in SynthFont, even with one of the kX Synths in use, this is with any of the soundfonts in use.

I also tested with the one you linked beforehand, that also worked in SynthFont when playing the midi with the Soundfont synth built-in and the kX Synth.

No luck as far as playing those particular midi files outside of it go though.

What other programs could be used to continue testing this?

AF-Domains.net

Another possibility that comes to mind...If the midi files in question don't have any specific drumkit specified at all, let's say the sf2 preset is Standard and it lies on Bank 128.

In such a circumstance, would the drum ever play properly via a standard midi player and kX?

Russ

Yeah, but again, it (SynthFont) seems to automatically use the standard kit if the assigned kit is missing. And, although the GeneralUser GS soundfont has some more drum kits, it does not have all possible ones (e.g. it does not appear to have the (128:127) CM-64/32 set, which is a fairly common one).

Assuming you do not have any MIDI sequencer application, you could try a program like Anvil Studio, and see which instrument it lists for the percussion channel (unfortunately it does not show the drum kits, but it will give you an idea), and you could change it to use a different kit (i.e. choose Acoustic Grand to change it to use the standard kit).

Bank 128 (i.e. 128:000) would be the standard kit.

AF-Domains.net

Is there any way to get kX to refer to the General Midi as a last resort?

Not having a great deal of luck at this time finding a soundfont that will play the drumset on this particular midi.

Russ

Are you able to post a link to download one of these MIDI files that has the problem?

Beyond the above, you said that it worked when you used certain soundfonts, if you load those soundfonts in kxmixer first, and then load the soundfont that you really want to use, it should work the way you want. For that matter, why not load one of the soundfonts that works (for playback with the kX Synths) in SynthFont, and then you should be able to find out which drum kit/patch it is using.

AF-Domains.net

This is the midi in question:
http://www.af-domains.net/stuff/D_COUNTD1.MID

The section in SYnthFont where it'd normally state the drum/instrument used appears to be blank for this midi, the SF2 Preset section says "Standard".

In Anvil, It says the instrument is a Percussive Organ, even when I use a soundfont that has it present, still no sound for it.

The drums only seem to work in Synthfont regardless of the soundfont.

They'll also work if I fallback to using the Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth or reverting to Creative drivers.

I have found no soundfonts so far that'll allow me to listen to the midi with the drums in a standard midi player.

Russ

OK, so it is using percussion preset 17 (128:017). Not a lot of soundfonts are going to have a drum kit defined there. Open it in Anvil Studio, change it to Acoustic Grand and save it (under a new name), and it will use the standard kit (or you could try preset 16 (Power set - which may be what was intended) by choosing the Drawbar Organ patch, but it will not work with SYNTHGMS.SF2 since it has only the one kit).

Beyond that, you can edit your soundfont in an SF2 editor, and maybe copy one of the other kits to that location (128:017).

AF-Domains.net

In this case, altering the soundfont is probably the best way.

Thanks for all the help

Russ

Your welcome

BTW: I thought I should add that Percussion Organ is not the actual preset it is using, Anvil Studio does not show the percussion presets correctly (it is showing the names from bank 0). So you are not looking for a soundfont with a Percussive Organ patch (000:017) but rather a preset at 128:017.

peate

If it's any help, I was able to hear the drums using a large sound font called Fluid and played your file using VanBasco's karaoke player. Any other soundfont I have wouldn't play them.

AF-Domains.net

I've modified the soundfont I'm using to add in/correct the various entries, haven't had any oddities since.

AF-Domains.net

Although I've now modified the soundfont I use to include the missing drumsets, wouldn't it perhaps make sense for the default drumset in a soundfont to be used instead of hunting around or modifying soundfonts to include missing patches?

Only if the said patch can't be found to start with.

Russ

I think if you are going to create a MIDI file using non-typical soundfont presets (or it's sound/feel depends on a particular soundfont being used), and you are going to share it in MIDI form, then you probably should also share the soundfont used to make it.

AF-Domains.net

A couple of the midi files here look like they use atypical banks and patches in a soundfont, however, unlike the drums, they can be heard with the soundfonts that don't seem to contain them at all or in a common bank.

Russ

Yeah, it does seem to do some kind of auto-fallback with missing alternate/variation banks.

AF-Domains.net

Could come in useful as far as missing drumkits go, to fall-back on a possible alternative.

The midi files came from a doom pwad originally.

fffcmad

Hi there! i installed the kx drivers for my new Audigy ZS Notebook, because the creative soundfont wont work with newer drivers.

So, now i endet up with Kx-drivers, but the missing fallback option for using a standard drumkit for non available drumkit does make no sense at all!

Now, after 2 weeks of tryin > get creative soundfont synth working (fail :/ ), i now have a hardwaresynth available, but it does not playback drumkits as it should So im hitting the next wall.

Every MIDI-Synth i know, uses a standard drumkit if the one choosen by the MIDI-file is non existent. This is an essential feature wich increases compatibility for playback most MIDI-Files. And now, i cannot hear any drums in Descent 1/ Descent 2 and so on...

It is not practicable if i have to edit every soundfont i want to use, only because such a fallback option does not exist.
Im using the Giant Soundfont.

Russ

You do not have to edit all your soundfonts. You can load more than one soundfont, so your best best is to just create a soundfont with only the missing drum preset(s), and load it along with whatever other soundfont(s) you are using.

Russ

IIRC, games like DOOM used FM synthesis, so for music like that, you would probably be better off using some kind of emulator.

In any case, from looking over the various docs, it seems that kX probably should do some kind of auto fallback with percussion as well... but of course that is up to Eugene.

The MIDI specification is mainly about General MIDI, so it does not go into much detail on bank selection and program changes (since GM does not support bank selection, and is not supposed to have any empty program locations/presets, it does not include such info). It recommends using a model similar to GS or XG (both appear to have a fallback mechanism (at least with some banks)) for this.

XG appears to do fall back for banks 0-127 (which it uses for melody voices) by reverting to the (Bank Select) LSB for the most recently played melody voice.

It also appears to do fallback for bank 16256 (which it uses for rhythm voices) by reverting to the Program Change corresponding to the mostly recently played rhythm kit.

It does not appear to do fallback for banks 128 to 16255. In this case, if there is no voice at the location selected, no sound is played.

kX should probably use a similar model...

BTW: Currently kX appears to use bank 128 for percussion (rhythm voices), which is different from what GS and XG use (both appear to use bank 16256).

fffcmad

Use OPL? Youre joking... Never heard Descent/ Doom/ Whatsoever with a good soundfont in the back? FM-Synths on OPL1/2/3 Level are cheap crap destroying mood and feel.