[IamLakota]

The current card in my other rig is the 9800XT and hell NO,..but,.....if you are compareing video cards to cars,..well sure if ATI finances them for like O% apr
for the first six months,and gives a cash back bounsof $300,..you know
like car dealerships do,..well then sure.

[bug77]

I already went overboard paying 240USD for my 6600GT. And it handles everythig I throw at it. So no way I'm going to pay 150USD extra for adding 256MB memory. No way. Not gonna happen. (You get the idea.)

[SecretAgentMan]

A 512 MB video card should not cost more than a top of the line card now. The current cards are already overpriced by $150 to $200 but it does not surprise me that 36.16% of the voters have no clue when it comes to being ripped off.

A sucker is born every minute.

[IvanV]

I'm very sceptical about the whole 512MB thing right now. Remember how long ago they started making FX 5900s and even 5600s with 256MB? And did those cards ever see any benefit from it? Difference between my 9800Pro and a 9800XT in any test is just below 10%. But, does even that small increase come from the extra RAM? I'd rather say it's 378*1.09 being equal 412. Now these are stronger cards, but they are already equipped with 256MB and an outrageous price, so I don't think I'd go for 512 right away even if I had the money. Unless I misunderstood, and they are actually going to stick extra $150 for us on the heatsink?!

[Ubergrendle]

512mb will become the standard one day, but right now only people gaming on insane rigs @ crazy resolutions will notice any benefit. As Zardon pointed out, people playing @ 1600 might be interested...

At 1024x768 (most people's gaming res) the difference between 128 and 256 are negligible for most games, so your $150 can be spent better elsewhere.

Although gaming has been the primary purpose of my home PC lately, it is a multi-purpose PC -- my rule of thumb is the video card should not exceed the price of the motherboard + cpu. It usually leaves me 1 generation behind the cutting edge, but then again I've always managed to stay current with my gaming requirements.

[Al_Vampyre]

I use a TFT with native resolution of 1280x1024 so I don't see the point...about time I retired my 9700pro though....

[BWX]

Originally Posted by Al_Vampyre

I use a TFT with native resolution of 1280x1024 so I don't see the point...about time I retired my 9700pro though....

Seems like a 6800GT would be your best bet. (if prices for you are a similar scale- as they are over here) X800pro being more than the faster 6800GT...

[The_Neon_Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Danhill

Neon, only you would compare a car with a videocard lol.

I think that the price on the video cards is going to rise more.

As I said eariler, now I wouldn't pay 150$ for another 256 Mb, I'm guessing that when it's time for me to change the card in a year or so then the cards that are available by then, they allready have 512 Mb I guess.

well DDR3 is is still pretty new and scarece compaired to say regular DDR...
Over time as there is more abundance and cometition parts price will fall

The FABs wich allways start with and extremely high fail rate get the bugs worked out to where the is a verry small fail rate... For memory, GPU makers, chips of all kinds
So prices inherantly fall...

So what it may cost a year from now for a 512mb card can be verry diffrent bit buy then they mabye new memory types etc that will drive the price back up...

It's really really complicated... but the basis is simple.. Make products as cheap as you can while remaning good quailty and make a profit... You can rest assused most of that extra $150 won't be going in thier pockets but to pay for the added expenses envoled wih that card

[Danhill]

Good point there Neon. I also think that eventually prices will fall, perhaps next year.

[studbagel9]

Neon, your argument is flawed dude, but the major one I'll point out is this: Back in it's day the Radeon 8500 wasn't as expensive as today's newer hardware (I paid 300 for it when it was in it's prime), but it was still top of the line at the time! Look at your high end car analogy. If you were to buy a high end car 30-40 years ago it would be about as relatively expensive as a high end car today. Just because it's newer now doesn't mean it should be more expensive. It should cost the same as the old high end stuff. Seriously, this isn't like, any new mind blowing stuff here, they're adding on memory which gets cheaper all the time, increasing clock speeds and number of pipelines, but whens the last time there's been a huge paradigm shift in the actually mechanics behind making of the cards? There's been nothing radically different about new high end cards that wasn't equally as different with cards that were high end 3 years ago. They've shrunk die sizes etc., sure but those older high end cards also had advances over THEIR predecessors. So why the increase in price if there hasn't been a huge increase in the amount of R&D needed to develop these cards? I don't want to hear anything about inflation because we're still talking about recent past here, not 10+ years. Anyway, I don't understand why these cards need to be this expensive. I can reasonably see paying 450 dollars for a video card, but I can't justify 800 dollars or whatever insane price people are charging. Heck, another reason these cards are so high in price is that the chip makers can't produce enough to satisfy the needs of the market, so we're driving the price up just by wanting them. Anyway, those are my two cents, well, it's been four now...I don't really expect anyone to read this anyway other than maybe Neon who will then proceed to blast at it again with his unique form of typing .

Addendum: That 150 bucks is sure as heck going into their pockets Neon, they wouldn't supply the card unless they made a happy profit off of it, they may be a company that cares about it's consumers more than the usual company, but at the end of the day, their goal is simple: make money. It's simple economics.

[mike2h]

i have a 19'' monitor that i run at 1280x1024. my 6800 gt has no problems whatsoever handling this with any game i have tried. i play doom3 with everything maxed at ultra setting with 4xaa 2xaf. i still get 51+fps(thx in part to some very good drivers.).
point is, unless youare running at really high res(as noted above) what is the point? i can not see any demand at the res i play at & definetly not at lower re for a couple of years.

[farkas]

Maybe if it's in canadian dollars, but even then, I still find current cards to be overpriced (more than 150$ actually) in general. So another 150$ on top of that is pretty high.

[BWX]

I remember when 9800XT's were going for 900+ bucks on Ebay.... anyone remember that? It's supply and demand.

[kelticknight]

not many people paid 900 bucks
want to be off your rocker

[merlinxi]

Yeah okay $650 for a card that is probably not going to work right for a few months yeah okay. Lower the price how about that?

LOL

Can we say expensive?

It doesn't really come down to supply and demand folks: It comes down to "Patience and Virture." Or my favorite "Supply and Stupidity."

[ExitiosuS]

lol... I use a 64mb card.... :P

[The_Neon_Cowboy]

Originally Posted by ExitiosuS

lol... I use a 64mb card.... :P

At the moment so do I... for the time being that is....

Originally Posted by studbagel9

Neon, your argument is flawed dude, but the major one I'll point out is this: Back in it's day the Radeon 8500 wasn't as expensive as today's newer hardware (I paid 300 for it when it was in it's prime), but it was still top of the line at the time! Look at your high end car analogy. If you were to buy a high end car 30-40 years ago it would be about as relatively expensive as a high end car today.

Nope but it would hold it value longer... $300 isn't is as expensive as today newer hardware and alot more has changed then you think...

off topic: the 8500 and 9100 series are longer lived partually due to thier 4X2 architecture... I mean Hl2, ut2004 etc... run just fine on a 64 mb card... Can't run high res or any aa/af but hey it works fine....

Originally Posted by studbagel9

Just because it's newer now doesn't mean it should be more expensive. It should cost the same as the old high end stuff.

Not unless it been a year and no real changes where made
I don't think you understand or see the big picture....

Originally Posted by studbagel9

Seriously, this isn't like, any new mind blowing stuff here, they're adding on memory which gets cheaper all the time, increasing clock speeds and number of pipelines, but whens the last time there's been a huge paradigm shift in the actually mechanics behind making of the cards?

Dude even a minor change is expensive, time consumeing, and potentially flawed...
They don't cook even small chages up over night. It alot of research, testing..., trial and error etc... then has to be bulk MFG when they get to a end product that is fine tweaked as they are mfg to work out the kinks in the yeilds... It's not uncommon to see a high fail rate with a new product like 75% +!!! ... thats just becouse of MFG! and along the line it end up being about a under 10% fail rate.... same goes for GPU and CPU's...

So even a small change can be verry expensive. But they often end up fueling lesser line with those fails/ A fail doesn't nessacarly mean a bad GPU or CPU. It mean it eaither has defective parts or doesn't reach the target clock speeds.

New proesses, finer processes... = even less room for error...
it's harder... thus more expensive

As for magor chages in process? ati uses lowk wich in the past NV said was insane or impossable take your choice ... Wich spawned the 9600/9800 XT series

The X850 and X800XL are just X800's with some MFG process changes...
wich changed performance and yield...

It's also far more complicated then you make it out to be. It isn't just the GPU or memory changeing... wich that alone is magor.. you have hundreds if not thousands of parts! that go on a single card... that do alot those chips cost too... they change etc... NO SINGLE MFG makes all it's parts either. wich mean they have to pay many someone elses... You have complex card designs, requirements, parts that have to all work togeather flawlessly to met persise specs... it's mind boggleing

Memory isn't allways getting cheaper in fact the price of memory is more volitile then the stock marrket the price change daily and are prone to MAGOR changes up and down...
So alot of people and companies stores build in padding... meaning the set a base price or adverage price ( bigger markup) and they charge you that insted of the actually price wich end witch they can end up more money in thier pocket or just barely break even... but it gives you a "stable" more fixed price...

Originally Posted by studbagel9

There's been nothing radically different about new high end cards that wasn't equally as different with cards that were high end 3 years ago. They've shrunk die sizes etc., sure but those older high end cards also had advances over THEIR predecessors. So why the increase in price if there hasn't been a huge increase in the amount of R&D needed to develop these cards?

Yes and no just becouse their based off older tech doesn't mean anything.... a tweak here and there and change here and there begets a while new beast... they keep changeing it to the point that it has quite the differance beween they old and new. of couse out side that there are many markets to fuel... Value, mainstram, high end and each has it's high meduim and low. They make diffrent products based off the same design to meet expense and nitches...

In short costs less to make a lesser card then it does the better cards....
heck costs include also marketing, employees, taxes etc...

Originally Posted by studbagel9

I don't want to hear anything about inflation because we're still talking about recent past here, not 10+ years.

Acually the value of a dallor or money for tha matter has changed drastically in just a few years ago... $1 doesn't stech as far as it used to...

Originally Posted by studbagel9

Anyway, I don't understand why these cards need to be this expensive. I can reasonably see paying 450 dollars for a video card, but I can't justify 800 dollars or whatever insane price people are charging. Heck, another reason these cards are so high in price is that the chip makers can't produce enough to satisfy the needs of the market, so we're driving the price up just by wanting them.

Well? do they? you don't expect to pay $450 every year for a card that margonally like 3% better the the older one? would you? no! whoes features are no diffrent... that would run everythibg the other one can the same way....

So the MFG make changes add features, support, design changes, even changes in the cooling used.... to produce a card that is much better 10% or much more then the last refesh.. and that not all there are more changes for example added in the X800's PS 2.0b that vastly changes the way/amount of programable pixel shaders are handled on thier cards... things such as increseing the avilable memory etc.. can do alot...

As for supply and demand driveing prices up... thats a given

Originally Posted by studbagel9

Anyway, those are my two cents, well, it's been four now...I don't really expect anyone to read this anyway other than maybe Neon who will then proceed to blast at it again with his unique form of typing .

Bwhahahaha

Originally Posted by studbagel9

Addendum: That 150 bucks is sure as heck going into their pockets Neon, they wouldn't supply the card unless they made a happy profit off of it, they may be a company that cares about it's consumers more than the usual company, but at the end of the day, their goal is simple: make money. It's simple economics.

Just becouse they will make a litte more off it wich is common the more a products costs the more thier useally makeing.

My point is the mass magority of the 150 will goto COSTS and will not be profit... THe extra memory, the changes in the card/board it self... the higher chance of failure... the higher RMA rate. the more parts you use not only the more it costs and harder to make... the more chances you'll get a flaw... Marketing costs... ETC....

[mike2h]

My point is the mass magority of the 150 will goto COSTS and will not be profit... THe extra memory, the changes in the card/board it self... the higher chance of failure... the higher RMA rate. the more parts you use not only the more it costs and harder to make... the more chances you'll get a flaw... Marketing costs... ETC....

you make the card sound like a pos before it is even released. there is no changes in the board. it will be a new layout. so outside of the initial cost & the extra mem cost there is no other cost factors.
the mem is fairly expensive though. but even that is dropping in price.

[crapman777]

i cant understand paying 150 bucks extra for more ram, i mean, cards these days still arent being pushed to their limits so what the hell do we want extra memory on them. Do you honestly want to pay (this is in Australian dollars) 1200 for a new gforce card or 450 for a mid range card? As technology improves we hear about how it will be cheaper to manufacture this and that yet every new bit of hardware and software is so damned expensive, then you wait six or so months and it drops like 25 or 40% when a new product is released. The initially high costs are where they make the big money, and if you are an enthusiast you arent going to fuss over an extra hundred dollars when you have forked out six or seven or eight hundred bucks.

Otherwise just stick to 256 and 128 cards, not much difference in price between those though, is there???

[franguinho]

Originally Posted by MIG-31

Too expensive.... imo.

would be nice to have 512mg card but have not had my x800pro long enough.

exactly, same with my 9500pro.. its only been about a year and a half and i've been doin a lot less gaming than i thought and it can handle everything i throw at it... so for now im pretty good unless i win one on one of these sweet DH competitions!

[kelticknight]

great these company to go from 256 to 512 ram card,as other guys have said we haven't used the 256 ram card to there max and now going 512 ram at cost of $150 or more,more likely more.don't tell me they aren't making extra money on these.they are.graphic cards have increased more in price than any other component in a pc ,ok they are better speed ,performance and quality wise ,but not at prices they ask for these cards,but soory no are they.wat ever difference between the 256 ram card and 512 ram card,probly won't be much.graphic card should not this expensive what ever it cost to produce.these cards are made in countrys where labour is cheap ,very cheap.they couldn't the last time before xmass keep up with demand,instead prices went up ,bcause of this.not the the expense in making them,probly saw that at time what people where willing to pay ,so decided to charge higher prices as there will always be does that will pay it.it will not always work that way.time will tell
cheers

[PandaZ3]

If I could afford a high end card then, yes I would go the extra. I don't think that many game makers would care to step up too much though. Look how many enthusiasts still use a 64 bit card. I have four 128 bit cards, but no top of the line stuff (Besides my 9500 Pro )

I just think you will be underwealmed with software support.