War with IRAN?

Falstaff · Feb 5, 2006, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necrosis

If the USA wasn't required to be the "World Police" then we wouldn't have these issues. The only reason most countries are opposed to messing with them is because they want Iran's oil.

I say don't invade, don't do a damn thing. Let's see what happens. I really don't care what other nations think. However, you know if America was to back down, and let the UN decide. If some thing did happen in the future who would be blamed? Of course America! It's this short sighted, asinine insight to how things work. The point being when you have a lot of power people are going to be pissed at you in general. It doesn't matter what you do.

Honestly, if your country was not attacked then you can't say any thing. If my next door neighbor's postal box gets bashed in, and he puts up some stones around it to protect it. I can't say any thing, it's his mail box! Oh I could be like "oh it'll piss them off, and then they'll come after mine". "Please keep taking what they're dishing out". My neighbor is going to tell me to piss off.

In this world you basically three types of people.

1. Those that do.
2. Those that think about doing.
3. Those that sit around, and complain about the first two.

Events didn't unfold as they should, and things weren't handled as they should have been. It won't change any thing. What if the WMDs are in Syria, what if there is proof? How many people would have to eat crow because of it? Giving this some more thought, and I'm not saying it's right. I think the simple reason for Iraq is so they have a main base of ops. that no one can tell them what to do. Just think about it for a second, they couldn't do that in Saudi Arabia.

So America stay out of Iran, don't do a dame thing. Let the "experts" take care of it by getting oil at discounted rates for their countries which will pay for further development of Iran's military. Who cares anyway, it's always America's fault any how!

I have to agree with the perception that we are the worlds police, if not by policy and action than by the very words of your esteemed religous and national leaders. I cant remember all the remarks by well known and respected people of the left and the right that have advocated violence or embargo on nations that demonstrate a policy of violence or overthrow against Israel for instance. Our own Pres. Eisenhower penetrated soviet airspace daily with overflights by manned and unmanned aircraft, as well as China too.
And what of our policies dealing with Oil Rich Nations, havent they been a disfunctional arrangement or political co-dependency too?
What I am driving at really is that my son may have to fight a war he didnt start, in a country he will never live in, against a foe that must reluctantly defend a tiny piece of sandy earth or an adobe home or building because his government told him too. I marvel at the task ahead for people that choose to serve the U.S. interests because they will always profit from it. But my own flesh and blood, blissful in his political ignorance will readily pick up a weapon and prosecute a war for their supreme leader of the U.S. because we have a desire to show the world how powerful we are, how freedom must be projected along with power to all the oppressed people of the world whether they like it or not.
I went to war because I believe it was the greatest thing I could do for my country, and hopefully retire with all my limbs intact and my mind and heart still focused on the future of our country and not the past.
I learned much, and I learned that people all over the world sitting in foxholes, manning radar sites, underwater playing cat and mouse with a potentiol enemy or just praying for an occupying force to leave and let the country seek its own destiny, are clining to hope, that one day, when it wont make sense to invade, to fight or to kill to achieve any global change, and they can live in peace.
The world is not perfect, and we should not have to kill to gain or project power anywhere.

Nacht · Feb 5, 2006, 05:39 PM

I think alot of this Anti-america anti-bush guys just feed off each other, and end up dragging people that wouldn't otherwise care into agreeing with them. Most of the people here that are so outspokenly against Bush don't even live here, nor have any first hand experience as to why they should hate him. It's mostly hear-say.

Unfortunately, I think its a fad.

GOG · Feb 5, 2006, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nacht

I think alot of this Anti-america anti-bush guys just feed off each other, and end up dragging people that wouldn't otherwise care into agreeing with them. Most of the people here that are so outspokenly against Bush don't even live here, nor have any first hand experience as to why they should hate him. It's mostly hear-say.

Unfortunately, I think its a fad.

I don't care what he's doing inside your borders, it's what he's doing outside them that bothers me.

SFOSOK · Feb 5, 2006, 07:38 PM

1. Those that Do - Not polititians
2. Those that think about doin - Republicans
3. Those that sit around and complain about the first two - Democrats

Warpy · Feb 5, 2006, 08:29 PM

How big is the Iranian army and what type of arsenal do they have, are they a big enough threat to be concerned about without nuclear weapons?

calidan · Feb 5, 2006, 08:53 PM

It's not the Iranian Army that is the threat but that Iran can and will sell nuclear weapons to terrorists if they had a chance. Iran says they only are building a nuclear power plant to prpdice energy. Then why don't they allow the UN inspectors do their job? It's not like Iran is the only country that is getting their plants inspected.

Falstaff · Feb 5, 2006, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calidan

It's not the Iranian Army that is the threat but that Iran can and will sell nuclear weapons to terrorists if they had a chance. Iran says they only are building a nuclear power plant to prpdice energy. Then why don't they allow the UN inspectors do their job? It's not like Iran is the only country that is getting their plants inspected.

It is a well known fact that IRAN instigated riots in IRAQ after the overthrow of Saddam to whittle down what ever support for the flegling government and preaches a violent path to overthrow of the infidels and their influence in the middle east.

Nacht · Feb 5, 2006, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOG

I don't care what he's doing inside your borders, it's what he's doing outside them that bothers me.

and AFAIK he hasn't come knocking on your door, so you just prove my point.

Sandok · Feb 6, 2006, 12:37 AM

Well dude, I lived in the US so I knew what it was like before bush times.. And yes, of course we say what we hear! My friends in the US don't like bush so of course, I reflect that since they are my friends and I am also in agreement with them... They just give me the arguments to use

And the media doesn't help. Hell, you watch only americain telle so of course, you don't see what we see... The world hates bush and thus america whether you like it or not...

PS: I love the US... Just the leader is iffy and anyways, I prefer demo than rep...

Necrosis · Feb 6, 2006, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandok

Well dude, I lived in the US so I knew what it was like before bush times.. And yes, of course we say what we hear! My friends in the US don't like bush so of course, I reflect that since they are my friends and I am also in agreement with them... They just give me the arguments to use

And the media doesn't help. Hell, you watch only americain telle so of course, you don't see what we see... The world hates bush and thus america whether you like it or not...

PS: I love the US... Just the leader is iffy and anyways, I prefer demo than rep...

You're in a minority.

Pompey · Feb 6, 2006, 04:45 AM

Iran does not want a civilian nuclear program. Nations who do dont hide their activities for 18 years. Iran has the right to nuclear power but it has to co-operate with the IAEA and allow the international community to monitor their program. It constantly lies to the international community and obstructs IAEA inspections.
Heres an extract from "Investigate" magazine (Feb 2006):

Quote:

President Mahmoud Ahmadinajad has publicly threatened to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. He has questioned the historic veracity of the Holocaust, the genocidal mass killing of six million European Jews by the Nazi's through World War II. And at the same time, he has embarked on a systematic purging of the Iranian government and armed forces of more moderate officials.
He is alo obsessed with the return of 'the Mahdi', an Imam who disappeared in the 10th century and who, according to Shia Islamic belief, is due to return soon as a messianic apocalyptic leader whose seven year reign ushers in Armageddon.
"Our revolutions main mission is to pave the way for the reapperance of the 12th Imam, the Mahdi," Ahmadinajad told imamns in a rousing speech in November. "Therefore, Iran should become a powerful, developed and model Islamic society."
The Iranian Leader's recent address to the united Nations also contained numerous coded and not so coded references to the Mahdi.

Ukrainian President Victor Yushchenko has confirmed that under the previous regime of president Leonid Kuchma, Ukraine quietly sold 12 nuclear-capable cruse missiles to Iran. They are far slower than the Shehab-3 missiles ballistic missiles but their computer guided, ground-hugging unpredictable flight paths could make them far more difficult to intercept and shoot down.

In the case of WMD's, nations gain the right to own them once they develop and build them.

GOG · Feb 6, 2006, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nacht

and AFAIK he hasn't come knocking on your door, so you just prove my point.

If I see a madman raging the streets outside my house, I can have an opinion about his behavior without him knocking at my door.

~~Alien1~~ · Feb 6, 2006, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green Death Flavor

^look another outsider lookin in tellin us how to run our country based on what ever information he is exposed to...

The problem is that by starting << WAR for the good of the world from the terrorism >> you do interfere yourselfs as outsiders to other countries just like you did with IRAQ and now you try to do with IRAN

So it is logical other countries interfere to your "business" as well

It's the two sides of the coin what do you expect ??

If you stop trying to interfere with other countries business maybe the outsiders as myself will stop looking to interfere to your country business as well

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandok

MY president... Dude I'm not americain and don't live in that country... Some people

Oooops

I am soooooooooooooo sorry for insulting you if i meant that you are a Republican USA citizen

Falstaff · Feb 6, 2006, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alien1

The problem is that by starting << WAR for the good of the world from the terrorism >> you do interfere yourselfs as outsiders to other countries just like you did with IRAQ and now you try to do with IRAN
So it is logical other countries interfere to your "business" as well
It's the two sides of the coin what do you expect ??
If you stop trying to interfere with other countries business maybe the outsiders as myself will stop looking to interfere to your country business as well
Oooops

I am soooooooooooooo sorry for insulting you if i meant that you are a Republican USA citizen

Here we go again...
World economic powers are always "interfering" with each others business and on many different levels
I think in terms of a forward looking vision for the world, it would be myopic to see only a blissful and friendly world, full of benevolent and caring trading partners, and communication that goes beyond the political and trade missions upon each others shores.
It would be easy to assume that we or someone petitions the partners in the democratically elected countries to work together and seek a common goal, but it just isnt true.
The strongest nations of the world possess nuclear weapons, and the only thing that keeps them from blowing each other up is the desire for more power, greater influence and world domination, present company excluded.
That is the only thing that chaffs my hide, why must my country, the most lethal on the planet in terms of world wide and limited engagements, seek to tell other countries how to live, and further yet, usurp power away from those that dont agree with us.
We had to wait for tthe former Soviet Union to run out of money before the Berlin Wall came down.
We had to wait till China emerged as a world economic power before we began to recognise Bejing and Taiwan as seperate but equal nations, and we walk the line there as well.
What galls me to no end is that we sent support even after the Shah of Iran fell from power to support internal efforts to overthrown Khomeni, undermine his security network and in effect create our own cells of intelligience and power.
The United States is very very good at getting information in real time about all the Major powers and collecting that data for dissemination to our leaders here, I should know, I did it for quite awhile. But the irony of the situation is not lost on me. With all the data, with the validity of each piece of information questioned to great length, and the intermal process of checks and balances internally to wiegh the importance of that information, we choose to look the other way and ignore the very vital and imnportant intelligience that could have save lives, avoided major conflicts and kept our efforts in the middle east more focused and less lethal.
No it is politicians....
Republican...
Democrat...
Independent
Conservative
Liberal...
all screaming for war...for justice....for the overthrow of anyone that does not agree with our own policies or offends us openly in the market place and the political arena..
We are much like school children sometimes...

BWX · Feb 6, 2006, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Di]:Z!ON

you are all talking out of your ass posting pointless news articles. None of these stories or information is true or usefull. When will you realize that shit posted on the internet or in newspapers is the opinion on the person writing it. It is all bullshit.

Oh yeah, everything is a lie, like the info below..

Quote:

YES:
Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Belgium, Canada, China, Colombia, Ecuador, Egypt, France, Germany, Ghana, Greece, India, Japan, Norway, Portugal, Russia, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Sweden, United Kingdom, United States, Yemen

NO:
Cuba, Syria, Venezuela

ABSTAINED:
Algeria, Belarus, Indonesia, Libya, South Africa

Source: FoxNews.com

bug77 · Feb 6, 2006, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alien1

Just because they want to have Nuclear Energy Factories does not mean they build Nukes for terrorists

Yes! And they just tested some long (or was it medium?) range nuclear capable missiles to use them for crop surveillance...

BWX · Feb 6, 2006, 09:35 AM

Anyone who has declared publicly that he wants to annihilate and destroy another country should not be allowed to produce nuclear weapons.. it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that out.

Sandok · Feb 6, 2006, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necrosis

You're in a minority.

That all depends which side of the fence you sit on

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alien1

Oooops

I am soooooooooooooo sorry for insulting you if i meant that you are a Republican USA citizen

Tis not an insult, just a misunderstanding

g35x · Feb 6, 2006, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWX

Anyone who has declared publicly that he wants to annihilate and destroy another country should not be allowed to produce nuclear weapons.. it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that out.

i agree

Sandok · Feb 6, 2006, 01:36 PM

so do I... That's just wrong and stupid.

Nacht · Feb 7, 2006, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOG

If I see a madman raging the streets outside my house, I can have an opinion about his behavior without him knocking at my door.

Because thats an accurate and intelligent way to describe current world events...

Grow up, please.

Sandok · Feb 7, 2006, 12:17 PM

I don't get it

Falstaff · Feb 7, 2006, 09:09 PM

It is dangerous to use rely on our own foriegn diplomacy to sort out these nuclear matters but we can only try. I saw Cheney on the tele today speaking in firm and measured remarks about his expectations and goals to limit the nuclear capability of IRAN, he is less optomistic than Rumsfeld, so this bodes ill for the IRAN.
We were ready 20 years ago and we are ready now to strike deeply, quickly and effciently into IRAN if necessary, and I am afraid it will be part of a larger theater of war for the U.S.