War on terror with wrong countries?

trodas

When talking about War on Terror (WoT), let's keep in mind, what the terrorism really is. By definition, terrorism is using violence to push political belief's, gain more money or power.

Therefore Cicero paying gangs of thugs to terrorise Romans (while speaking about how he, if he get elected, create order) was terroristic act w/o doubt. There is both violence and political (and therefore economical) gains as well.

Same could be spoken about Hitler NSA, terrorising Germans, while he is speaking about order... And when he need to push through "Enabling Act", Reichstag burn. Maybe not with his before knowledge, but he sure gain most of it.

When GWBush want push out on Iraq, WTC has to burn down. Maybe it not happen with full before-knowledge, yet he and his government gained most. And also let's not forget how he react on 9/11 when he got the message "Nation is under attack." It alone suggest before knowledge of events in 9/11. The Iraq occupation architected before 9/11 is a strong evidence too.

Now - is not the WoT waged by the very same people, that should - at least - first explain what happened, show the evidence promised to be released in "due time" (Condi about Iraq - 9/11 ties), release the already existing evidence of the 9/11 attacks and stop hiding whatever they are hiding?

I could not help thinking that the WoT is waged by the very same people, that are more that likely responsible for the boom of terrorism, anti-americanism and that their actions actually fueling the terrorists fire?
(even according to CIA, Iraq is now a heaven for terrorists and with every other dead civilian, the number of terrorists and their sympathizants rise dramatically...)

So, despite my feeling that the war on terror is missing their goals (what is his goals anyway, when GWBush admited that he did not spent time on Osama anymore - on alleged mass murderer, who murdered 2973 US civilians on 9/11?!) - should not be the WoT waged against people that are responsible at least? I mean - if the detained ones on camp X-ray on Guantanamo w/o accusations are guilty - then why they aren't stood before jury to their fate are determined? Since they aren't trialed yet, one could assume that they aren't guilty.
(side note, no-one is guilty before he stand trial and is found guilty)

Should not we rather focus on people, that are started all this and possibly even carried out 9/11? After all, it is the very same people that after WW2 managed to bomb 21 countries - the US government!
Still not enough spoken to make someone think twice about what is going on? So, let's recapitulate what they do in past 60 years - just major events to keep the post sort of short:

1953: USA overthrows Prime Minister Mossadeq of Iran. And install Shah as dictator. CIA operation AJAX http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax

1954: USA overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of Guatemala. 200,000 civilians killed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_PBSUCCESS

1963: USA back assassination of South Vietnamese President Diem.

1963-1975: American military kills 4 million people in Southeast Asia.

September 11, 1973: USA stages coup in Chile. Democratically-elected President Salvador Allende assassinated. Dictator Augusto Pinochet installed. 5,000 Chileans murdered.

1977: USA backs military rulers of El Salvador. 70,000 Salvadorans and four American nuns killed.

1980's: USA trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill Soviets. CIA gives then $3 billion.

1981: Reagan administration trains and funds "contras". 30,000 Nicaraguans die.

1982: USA provides billions in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to kill Iranians.

1983: White House secretly gives Iran weapons to kill Iraqis.

1989: CIA agent Manuel Noriega (also serving as President of Panama) disobeys orders from Washington. USA invades Panama and removes Noriega. 3,000 Panamanian civilian casualties.

1990: Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from USA and with USA blessing.

1991: USA enter Iraq. Bush reinstates dictator of Kuwait.

1998: Clinton bombs "weapons factory" in Sudan. Factory turns out to be making aspirin.

1991 to present: American planes bomb Iraq on a weekly basis. UN estimates 500,000 Iraqi children die from bombing and sanctions.

2000-01: USA gives Taliban-rules Afghanistan $245 million in "aid".

Sept. 11, 2001: US secret services with Mossad cooperation carry out deceptive action that destroy all 7 WTC buildings (all owned be only person, Larry Silverstein - his son is US ambassador, BTW), test Pentagon building by bunker buster and generate one crater near Shanksville, PN. 2972 US citizen's pay with their lives for the treachery that allow US government to go in the war in Afghanistan (for the "magic pipeline" by Unocal), in Iraq (for the second largest oil reserve on planet and money for war and following rebuild) and finally for the never ending "war on terror", witch works only as cover-op to take freedom off American people.

Sandok

Oh great another one of these threads... As the world's only superpower, of course they are invading more "wrong" countries and sure, they make some mistakes like the current iraq war which imho is not very correct but give em some slack.

You're not going to tell me you find that the US is a bigger "terrorist" according to you than the culprits of 911. Or do you also think americains bomb themselves?

EDIT: I don't know why I bother

Necrosis

You know Trodas your opening was very well done, and even made me think.

However, once again you spout un-proven so-called facts.

1. US weapons...jeez I guess they left all of their soviet made weapons at home?

2. WTF EVER where did you get that from, out of your ass?

See folks you can read this shit any where on any conspiracy page.

Next thing you know he'll start calling Bush the anti-christ.

Anyway Trodas please provide a list of countries that should be invaded to obtain the "correct" terrorists. Oh that's right you have no clue do you? AKA you don't know shit.

mike2h

EDIT: I don't know why I bother

i agree. i gave up a while back. there is no way to have a reasonable discussion with conspiracy buffs.
people that use wikipedia as a factual source crack me up

Razgriz

Please, if you hate the US so much, join your beloved terrorist who are right and we are wrong, and you will see the measure of our resolve. Unfortunatly, you're to pussy to take action yourself, you sit at your computer and spew anti-america crap, all of it from someone else's opinion. Hop on the bandwagon son.

Sandok

Meh I did my whole essay using that stuff... For simple definitions and explantations of scientifical facts, it's quite helpful! Goooo wiki!

mike2h

i assume you cross checked & i know you can differentiate between fact, opinion, & rhetoric.

SFOSOK

Hahahaha all you read are those political cartoons. What a tool!

Wait who gave you posting privs? I know it wasn't me. I think anytime you want to say something dumb you lock yourself in a room till you are finished that way we never see you again

Sandok

course I crosschecked and i more or less trusted the site cuz how do you wanna post opinions on keplers laws ?

On politcal subjects, u gotta watch it but on scientifical theories and all, it's a great place

digerati

This was originally posted by SH4President a long time ago.
U.S after war history.

This is YOU posting it 10 months ago and me telling you it was a repost. And me telling you posting Michael Moore facts are rubbish and gave you sources to show how he lies in his movies.
America in no 1 - into this

And now we have you again Trodas, reposting your own post.

Necrosis

Trodas: "My name is Trodas, and I like to sniff glue!..TE.....HE..!"

mike2h

while i think trodas does post some pretty 'silly' stuff i do not think the personal bashing, while understandable, is needed.

Nacht

hahahaha OWNED!

SFOSOK

I understand your point but some of us are getting fed up with his nonsense to that part, I'll keep personal bashing down for myself but there is really no other way to reason with a person who's view of the world is so skewed and unwilling to admit he is wrong.

mike2h

unfortunately that is part of the problem with something as personal as the pol/rel forum, wich is aslo why i seldom come here anymore. i have gotten 'personal' myself a few times & understand your frustration
digerati has the right idea.

Necrosis

I'm not calling him any names, just trying to find an answer for the way he is. Big difference.

digerati

I'll see you at the communist meeting tonight

trodas

Damn! Commies are there? LOL
Let's unleash McCarty on your ass!

Necrosis:
Is that really so?

I think you are liar, Necrosis.

Razgriz

thats not calling you name, hes just pointing out where your peckerhead (thats calling you names) is located

digerati

Just please don't post anymore Michael Moore garbage please, that's my only request.

Nacht

Pretty sure that was a joke bud....one against you.

and its McCarthy. For someone who "knows" so much about history, you think you could spell his name right.

Oh yea, you dont know anything.

trodas

Oh, yea, you never made a typo, sure

It is so easy do dismiss someone opinions without challenging them, just based on one typo, witch is into the OT part of discussion and supposedly done as joke - well, in fact, it tells a lot about you...

Pompey

Jan 27, 2006, 02:34 PM

Today, 06:14 AM

woa..... 28,29,30,31,1,2,3..... ummm

Trodas, what are you on that knocked you out for so long?
Hook us up cuz!

And I think digerati did "challange" you.

trodas