Jesus Loves You

Pompey · Aug 9, 2005, 05:15 AM

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I also know that a couple of you keep getting focused on science vs. Christianity,

The problem I have is with religion as a whole, ive only focused on Christianity because the believers here to my knowledge here are Christian.
Their main differences are not simply each one answers to questions. Its how each answers them. If already sated this difference but if you want Ill say it again.

I couldn’t be bothered editing my first post so just posted new things separately.

Gabriel_Etranil · Aug 9, 2005, 12:33 PM

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Originally Posted by Pompey

Look at what you first posted, then look at my reply. It might make sence then. Maybe its you who has a shot term memory.
I only know what you've posted, enlighten me.

Is this what you are refering to?

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Originally Posted by Gabriel_Etranil

Wow, man do some research and read a Bible to find the answer to that statement. Read Genesis 4 in the Bible it makes that arguement mute. I'm not saying it is true but I am saying that it is explained if you are willing to read to find it.

How is this post stating anything of my views that would allow you to post this: "The possibility of some greater being is a perfectly valid theory, but you are not saying its a possibility. You claim to know the box this 'god' fits into, and spend part of your life engaging in idol worship, thanking it for things you cant even prove it did." This is why I say you have a problem. I don't affiliate with organized religion but I have read the Bible and the Koran(Quran) and parts of the Tora. Does this mean I am a Jewish Muslim Christian?

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I responded 'huh to this because I was trying to figure out what you were saying. Are you talking about some sort of soul here? That it is fused with the zygote and must come from a voild or something? Im sorry but my primmitive, questioning brain is to immature for complex thought, you may have to dum it down for the likes of me.

*AttroPheed stated that there is no such thing as nothing, if the universe had a beginning then before that there was nothing. If we have no afterlife, if there is no soul, when we die we cease to exist, if there is no such thing as nothing then 'if there is no void to come from there is no void to return to'. If there was something before the universe and there is indead no such thing as nothing what was before?

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I dont spend alot of time philosiphising about the afterlife (in whatever form) since it can not be proved or disproved. As I already said, as we slowley discover how the brain works, it is becoming more and more evident that it and not some soul is responcible for or emotions etc. How can there be an afterlife or reincarnation without a soul? Its an inference, which can be wrong but it has a little more credibility than faith.

So you believe 'from the abyss we come from to the abyss we will return' right?(or if you feel like you can replace abyss with earth)

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The reason I dont accept the bible as fact is (as ive stated many times) that the answers in it cant be backed up with facts. We have never found the Garden of eden for example.

If it is indeed real why are we supposed to find it? If the Bible is false then Eden does not exist why would it be found? If the Bible is true then Noah's flood would have destoyed it(which is one possible explanation).

I still ask you have you read Genesis 4 for any piece that may debunk your 'incest' claim?

SFOSOK · Aug 9, 2005, 01:53 PM

If you look back and read this discussion you can find that it all started with one phrase, Jesus Loves You. Still don't think it should be soo many arguements about it, though I guess bringing in wether God and Jesus exist is a valid factor. Because they would obviously have to exist to love you. But Jesus is a real person no matter what you believe, and he does truelly love all of you. I like the development of this thread but I don't want it to start flaming. I'll probably create another thread to continue this disccusion.

AttroPheed · Aug 9, 2005, 03:41 PM

When you were deciding to be whatever religion you chose why did you choose the faith you chose and not any of the countless other religions? How did you get the proof you needed to simply dismiss hundreds of other religions and their millions of followers as completely wrong and call one single faith the correct one? Any other religion with it's teeming mass of blind followers could be the "correct" one, couldn't it? Or maybe they're all wrong.

Randomletters · Aug 9, 2005, 04:49 PM

Anyone see in constantine, at the end, when the devil came through the ceiling. whats up with that? why didnt he of come from the obvious direction
.|
\ /

AttroPheed · Aug 9, 2005, 04:59 PM

cheaper to lower a dude into a shot than cgi him thru a floor

SFOSOK · Aug 9, 2005, 05:19 PM

Constantine was a crap movie anyway. Keanu was made to be a surfer bro, end of story.

Pompey · Aug 10, 2005, 05:26 AM

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Which theory doesn't require that something come from nothing? Responding with where does god come from doesn't work, it is not explainable. If he exists outside our 'universe' do our current laws of science apply to him? 'Where did we come from?' is not an answerable question, no matter what anybody thinks it is all theory.

This is the post I was referring to. Does it make sense now?

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*AttroPheed stated that there is no such thing as nothing, if the universe had a beginning then before that there was nothing. If we have no afterlife, if there is no soul, when we die we cease to exist, if there is no such thing as nothing then 'if there is no void to come from there is no void to return to'. If there was something before the universe and there is indead no such thing as nothing what was before?

Well then, ill let attro deal with that.

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So you believe 'from the abyss we come from to the abyss we will return' right?(or if you feel like you can replace abyss with earth)

I guess that about sums it up.
I know whatas coming next, 'well then thats you belief, which you have no proof of' yada yada...
As I said, its an inference which could be wrong. Its what I think is most probable.

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If it is indeed real why are we supposed to find it? If the Bible is false then Eden does not exist why would it be found? If the Bible is true then Noah's flood would have destoyed it(which is one possible explanation).

The garden of eden was an example. The 'why are we supposed to find it' statement argument is ridiculous. Its the same as the 'because god said so' statement. They cant prove anything so they come up with lines like that.

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I still ask you have you read Genesis 4 for any piece that may debunk your 'incest' claim?

Im not sure if ive read the right one. It is Gen 4:1 - 4:26 right?, I seems very short. (King James Version).
All it talks about is Cain murdering his brother and who begat who. It makes no sense, It doesn’t prove anything. If you can prove what the bible says then ill take it seriously.
Opps, thats right, religion dosent need proof

AttroPheed · Aug 10, 2005, 07:08 AM

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Originally Posted by Gabriel_Etranil

AttroPheed stated that there is no such thing as nothing, if the universe had a beginning then before that there was nothing.

Consider the universe has always existed and was a compressed mass of something however infinitely small. As for the "before", we know that time must have been standing still because even time has to obey the laws of physics so there is no 'before' as time started with our universe just like everything else.

Keep in mind that this is just one (overly simplified) interpretation of one of many different theories, all of which know that something cannot come from nothing. So this:

"The one thing that bothers me about the current science 'proof' is that it requires that something came from nothing..."
- Gabriel_Etranil

is done (I hope).

Gabriel_Etranil · Aug 10, 2005, 01:59 PM

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Originally Posted by Pompey

This is the post I was referring to. Does it make sense now?

That was not my 'first' post, and no it still does not make sense that you came to the conclusion you came to.

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Originally Posted by Pompey

Im not sure if ive read the right one. It is Gen 4:1 - 4:26 right?, I seems very short. (King James Version).
All it talks about is Cain murdering his brother and who begat who. It makes no sense, It doesn’t prove anything. If you can prove what the bible says then ill take it seriously.
Opps, thats right, religion dosent need proof

You read the right one but you didn't read it analytically. I read multiple accounts of the happenings in Genesis 4 and the religious 'interpretation' for it is incorrect imo.

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Consider the universe has always existed and was a compressed mass of something however infinitely small. As for the "before", we know that time must have been standing still because even time has to obey the laws of physics so there is no 'before' as time started with our universe just like everything else.

Yes a 'singularity' theory, but many who use this theory will admit that it was not always there and and had an initial 'appearance'.

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All the evidence seems to indicate, that the universe has not existed forever, but that it had a beginning

From someone I would value the information from.

BWX · Aug 10, 2005, 02:19 PM

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Pompey Quote:
Which theory doesn't require that something come from nothing? Responding with where does god come from doesn't work, it is not explainable. If he exists outside our 'universe' do our current laws of science apply to him? 'Where did we come from?' is not an answerable question, no matter what anybody thinks it is all theory.

This is the post I was referring to. Does it make sense now?

God is omnipresent- Present everywhere simultaneously. Also he always existed, - did not "come from" anywhere. Always there.. Infinitely there in the past and will be in the future..

Our minds can comprehend existing forever, you just keep living- easy to imagine. If that was possible in the human form it would be immortality, but the physical body is not immortal, only the soul and spirit are immortal.

Our minds have a much harder time coming to terms with the idea of "being there forever in the past" for obvious reasons.. because we were born and had "a beginning". Just because you cannot comprehend it, does not mean that a higher power is not capable of it.

Time is very fluid as we as the human race are discovering. More evidence that there are things we will never understand in this lifetime.

TJ- · Aug 10, 2005, 09:55 PM

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Originally Posted by BWX

God is omnipresent- Present everywhere simultaneously. Also he always existed, - did not "come from" anywhere. Always there..

but where did he come from, its the chicken or the egg theory...

BWX · Aug 10, 2005, 10:42 PM

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Originally Posted by [zi0n]aXe

but where did he come from, its the chicken or the egg theory...

That's the kicker.. didn't "come from" anywhere..
always was, always has been, always will be. Hard to wrap your brain around, but that is the deal.

TJ- · Aug 10, 2005, 10:48 PM

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Originally Posted by BWX

That's the kicker.. didn't "come from" anywhere..
always was, always has been, always will be. Hard to wrap your brain around, but that is the deal.

but everything has to come from somewhere, where did it begin, when, how?

AttroPheed · Aug 11, 2005, 05:22 AM

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Originally Posted by BWX

That's the kicker.. didn't "come from" anywhere..
always was, always has been, always will be. Hard to wrap your brain around, but that is the deal.

Proof?

Pompey · Aug 11, 2005, 05:52 AM

"Science has done more for the development of western civilization in one hundred years than Christianity did in eighteen hundred years."
Jeff Burroughs

BWX · Aug 11, 2005, 05:59 AM

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Originally Posted by AttroPheed

Proof?

Read the Bible?

Sandok · Aug 11, 2005, 06:47 AM

bible is no proof...

Anyone can write and say it's from god... And stories about jesus aren't proof either since back then, everything was passed from person to person and usually, stories are exagerated.

Jesus is total bullocks including god.

BWX · Aug 11, 2005, 07:27 AM

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Originally Posted by sandok

bible is no proof...

Anyone can write and say it's from god... And stories about jesus aren't proof either since back then, everything was passed from person to person and usually, stories are exagerated.

Proof that it is the theology, not proof that it is true..

No one can prove or disprove it, asking for proof of a widely held faith based belief is retarded.

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Jesus is total bullocks including god.

Well, I am sure you lead a very sad and empty life.. congrats for being an atheist.

Sandok · Aug 11, 2005, 07:36 AM

I'm agnostic mate... And thinking I got some soul in me doesn't make me feel different. I was born brought up religious and stopped soon after I turned teen. God is required for the weak!!!

Let me elaborate. Many gods have existed on this planet. Zeus for example was a great god and millions obeyed him. Not anymore and why? He explained what lightning was. But with time and science, we have proven it and we don't need a god for it anymore. Same with volcanos, etc.

What we can't explain is death so Allah and Jesus live on. The unexplainable for you people is god. Simple answer to life's problems.

BWX · Aug 11, 2005, 08:10 AM

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Originally Posted by sandok

Let me elaborate. Many gods have existed on this planet. Zeus for example was a great god and millions obeyed him. Not anymore and why? He explained what lightning was. But with time and science, we have proven it and we don't need a god for it anymore. Same with volcanos, etc.
.

Prove it!! (see, retarded)

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Originally Posted by sandok

I'm agnostic mate... And thinking I got some soul in me doesn't make me feel different. I was born brought up religious and stopped soon after I turned teen. God is required for the weak!!!

Well maybe some people find evidence in thing where other people don;t have the ability to.. Your loss.
The sheer complexity and intricacies of the universe as we know it is enough proof for me that it didn't all "just happen".... I think you need more faith to believe that.

DNA evolving? mathematics, physics, the human brain, art, love, hate, evil the *balance* in the universe..... the fact that you even exist and can comprehend what you see and know about the way it all works together...

Anyone who thinks that all just "happened", or believes in some half witted evolution crock (that even the author of debunked) is denying the proof that is laid out in front of their noses.

Believe what you want, but the proof is all around you.

Prove that we evolved from apes. Where is the missing link? Nowhere..
That BS about lightning hitting simple proteins to form DNA is so far fetched it is laughable. Just what I said before, it takes more faith to believe that crap.
Science and the Bible do not contradict each other either. Not everything is told in the Bible, and what is not can be explained through science eventually.

For example- creation in 6 days.... a day to God might be 10,000 years, it is hard to say.. can't take everything literally. Maybe the Bible left out the 180 billion years before that it took to create the rest of the universe. Who knows! But it didn't just "happen"..

swimtech · Aug 11, 2005, 09:06 AM

The scientists are working on finding the truth(s). In faith...I look forward to the day when the truth in the Word of God is met and matched with the truth that science finds. If an agnostic and a Christian with sound minds are searching for a truth - they should find the same thing.

Issues of creation, evolution, physics, etc., should all meet at the same truth. We have a lot of facts - but let's not confuse facts with the basis for the facts. Christians believe what they believe for good reason - a lot of which are personnal - but still good (with a basis - such as an experience) - a lot of which they cannot explain (I am one of those...). There are many things that science cannot explain fully either - that much is one thing Christians and agnostics have in common - eh?

We, as Christians, do have a high calling - that being to love one another (not just Christian loving Christian) as we love ourselves. That does mean each Christian needs to love (somehow...and by choice - not necessarily feeling alone) all other men. Jesus "burdened" us with that command, and provided the living example.