Personal Rights and Terrorism

br00ksintexas · Jul 22, 2005, 07:58 AM

This morning, on the "Today Show", they were interviewing passengers of New York's subway system. They were talking to said passengers about the newly implemented "random searches" that NYPD and the NY Transit Authority would be performing. According to the NY police chief, these searches would be done randomly, either every 5th, 10th, or 15th person, in order to avoid "racial profiling". When they went to the passengers to ask about their feelings on these newly implemented policies, for the most part, most were amicably compliant. There was one British-American who said "I'll give up some of my personal rights to keep from being blown up." They also showed an African-American who, atleast to me, naively said "This is New York City. Let us go as we please."

Here's the question I pose to you all. If you're in a country that is/has been affected by terrorism, would you so willingly give up some of your basic, every day, simple personal rights, in order to increase your personal and national security?
And, if not, then why not?

Also, do you think, that in these times, racial profiling is unconstitutional, or an outdated idea?

Please try and be as specific as possible regarding your dissenting views.

AttroPheed · Jul 22, 2005, 12:09 PM

Random searches are a little ridiculous given how many people use the NY subway system daily. And while racial profiling could work to help what may already be an exercise in futility, americans (regardless of descent) are a very sensitive and litigious people so I dont think it would fly.

�amage� · Jul 22, 2005, 02:56 PM

This is a good very debate Br00k.

I think it is ours and our countries governments civic and very important duty to have certain precautions and guidelines in place, as humans and being in such a "not so perfect" world, these things are essential for our protection.

Especially when dealing with terrorism and terrorists that sometimes change the rules for their own evil and sadistic views or religion.. when we are dealing with extremists taking innocent lives and destroying whatever peace of mind that as a whole.. is our right too human harmony, that checks and random searching be essential in our day to day lives when using transportation of any sort. It is better to save the many lives of a city or country then to disgruntle 1 or more person(s).. that has deemed it unnecessary or a bother.

Like I heard while watching the news yesterday on the TTC.. "If you don't like the procedures put in place.. then find another ride".

Peace

br00ksintexas · Jul 22, 2005, 04:34 PM

"If you don't like the procedures put in place.. then find another ride"

I think I'd agree with that statement, too, Damage. To be put out a little by random searches vs. potentially being blown to bits, well, atleast to me, wouldn't be an issue. It definitely seems to be for the "greater good" in light of recent events. As for racial profiling, I almost don't see how it's totally possible, in regards to the Muslim community. In my life, I've met and seen Muslims of all colors and shades. Sadly, it's nothing that simple. I was reading in another posting on a different forum, and someone suggested that if local (to whomever) Muslim communities would refuse to give safe haven to radical Muslims then eventually the radicals would have no where left to go. As it is, most of these radical terrorists seem to have no problem extinguishing human life, be it white, tan, red, or black. As we all have seen from Iraq, they have no problem killing their own people, and I for one seriously doubt they run to each Iraqi they intend on killing, and have them fill out a "Are You a Devout Muslim" questionairre. Knowing this, I just can't seem to understand, or bring myself to any kind of understanding, how these people are thinking, that they would willingly harbor someone who would gladly kill them in the name of their own God.
I think I might be willing to die for my God, but I don't think he/she would want me to kill in their name or image.

LHC · Jul 22, 2005, 04:51 PM

I think it is a good idea, however, problems can arise. A suicide bomber might hang back a little bit, notice a pattern, and go onto the subway when he or she won't be checked. Plus, what would happen if an NYPD officer or NY Transite Authority is racist? Unless there are multiple officials keeping track of the searches, a racist person can pick out just about all the Muslims go through..

Necrosis · Jul 22, 2005, 09:52 PM

I think I will and have gave up some of my personal freedoms already. However, if it bangs some kids live, or some one some else love lives I'm up for it. Real Muslims have nothing to worry about since the condone these actions. Honestly, if who these people hate are really that bad, and they are so numerous. Why don't they band together to show the world whay they are fighting for?

SFOSOK · Jul 23, 2005, 12:13 AM

I had to do a summary on quiet a few different articles on our rights as citizens, and the rights of terrorists.

Basically, a person taking the point of keeping our rights and not having security makes a better point most of the time. But most of their arguments are based off of, we don't know its goin to happen so it may not.

I believe we can never be to safe. But there will always be some form of abuse by the ppl monitering the population for terrorists, though if we are not strict enough, terrorists will continue to roam free.

So the answer is yes, I believe that some of our rights sohuld be taken away to protect the population. if it takes 30 mins of security to board a train, then wake up earlier.

I think most ppl do not like the fact they have to taek over an hr to board a plane, well thats good and all to think that way, but I bet you would change your mind if security checks were like 15 min all together and your plane gets hijacked.

More security = good if controlled and not abused.

SFOSOK · Jul 23, 2005, 12:18 AM

and Necrosis, if they would have banned together any more than they are now, it would have happened by now. You have to realize how long this war has been goin on, only recently has it spilled over into US soil. Once again we have been to late to act, I would not go as far to blame Clinton, because there is no way he could have known, but we need to revoke some rights in order to make sure another 911 won't happen (even though it will again eventually).

I just hate the ppl who attack polititians, the majority elected them there, so live with it or leave, You can't blame Bush or Blaire for terrorists actions, they would happen anyway, whether we take action or not, so this is a time to band together, not to bicker, how many more 911's will it take for America to c this?

�amage� · Jul 23, 2005, 01:37 AM

Ya.. Necrosis, "you have to realize man".. what's wrong with you!

Peace

Dark Lord · Jul 23, 2005, 01:52 AM

i can agree to a certain extent on some of this stuff, but what i can see is, what if it does start now? how far will it go? what rights will i have left when its all said and done?

just to pull of a very far off analogy, but could we end up like the folks in Half-Life 2, where all of our rights have been revoked in order to protect our selfs from each other?

�amage� · Jul 23, 2005, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by another-user

i can agree to a certain extent on some of this stuff, but what i can see is what if it does start now? how far will it go? what rights will i have left when its all said and done?

just to pull of a very far off analogy, but could we end up like the folks in Half-Life 2, where all of our rights have been revoked in order to protect our selfs from each other?

I agree user, and a prime example of that is the wonderful "Patriot Act" which they've just prolonged for another 10 years. "God help America"

Peace

SFOSOK · Jul 23, 2005, 02:52 AM

well, its either lack of freedoms and some deaths prevented, even if it is just one, or your freedom and a life or lives lost.

br00ksintexas · Jul 23, 2005, 08:47 AM

If America were "Formally Invaded" (War actually declared by an opposing recognized nation and they entered our borders) we would lose almost all of our rights as it is. Of course, that's a worst case scenario. I'm wondering if, let's say, that the Supreme Court put mandatory timetables on these particular losses of rights. If they did, say until the end of the "War on Terror", or 5 years max, then would it be easier to take temporarily losing their freedoms?
It's strange to think of something ending with the War on Terror. It doesn't seem like it's a winable war, in terms of us obliterating them/beating them into submission. There's just far too many extremists in this world to ever stop it completely.

AttroPheed · Jul 23, 2005, 09:25 AM

I'm more worried about getting killed by salmonella or the proverbial falling coconut or in a car crash than I am worried about getting blown to bits by a 'terrorist'. TV would have you believe that every third train outta the station has a suicide bomber just itching to try out his new pipe bomb recipe when in reality the danger of your being hit by lightning or even shoved in front of the train by a random homeless person is far greater. I say we submit to random health inspections at restaurants and hotels so we can stop all the food-borne illness that manage to kill or afflict tens of thousands of people every year. Pick your battles people. I'm not saying we shouldn't be vigilant and maybe if terrorists managed to kill as many people as regular everyday citizens of your own race, religion and creed do then I could see giving up our rights one nibble at a time. You should be more afraid of kenny the fry cook not washing his hands and giving you hep-c than mohammed and his holy war.

SFOSOK · Jul 23, 2005, 02:43 PM

Well thats because you only think of yourself and how it will affect you, you have absolutely no regard for your comon man. Terrorism attacks humanity as a whole, everyone who hate terrorism should stand up together and stomp those fuckers out until there are none left.

And moron from France, go live in Israel for a couple days. Just because it doesn't affect your country right now, doesn't meaen you should just sit on your ass and wait for them to kill someone you know in order for you to take action.

Nobody wants to make the effort because they believe it won't happen to them. Well, thats what Jews said until they were rounded up into death camps, and any other group that the Nazi's putaway thought it wouldn't happen to them, no one wanted to do anything, until it was too late.

Also, how dare you campare terrorist acts to everday accidents. Terrorism can be prevented, and to think that we should live in a world of terror is foolish.