article: Weak Brits, Strong French

Ubergrendle · Jul 13, 2005, 09:30 AM

Argument summary: France has been the lead in the fight against terrorism, both in public policy (secularism) and in cooperation with the United States. Britain on the other hand has been a safe haven for numerous fundamentalist Islamic groups who take advantage of the multicultural policies.

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/2764

I firmly believe France is taking the 'right approach', but am less certain of the author's secondary statements about Britain and multiculturalism.

mkk · Jul 13, 2005, 09:46 AM

I'd agree at least with the author pointing out that France has definitely not been "soft on terrorism" as some sources wants to have people believing. On the rest I'd need more time and a lower ambient temperature to digest.

Prelude · Jul 13, 2005, 01:25 PM

Good article, shows you how much of your opinion is based on incomplete information fed by the press...

HMS-Dreadnought · Jul 15, 2005, 01:27 AM

I agree that france may be tougher on what they see as 'non-french' people, but I don't see how that makes them any more or less tough on terroriem.

There attetude towards islamic cultures (dress etc) can only cause hatered towards the french nation and there leader.

In that respect at least, it dose nothing to fight terroisem.

The author speaks of france maintaing pride in her self,..

Quote:

The British have seemingly lost interest in their heritage while the French hold on to theirs

On the conterery,.. I would put it to you that Britain and France are both holding on to their heritage.

Britain continues to be a 'free country' , france however....

....................

The french beleve (and I've heared this from the horses mouth) ,
that britain, after being victorios in the second world war, Has now some how 'surendered' to all and everyone else who now lives here.

The french are missing the point. WW2 was a victory against 'fasisom' ,
But france, like other countys in europe, are fasists them selfs.

The whole reasion behind what happend with germany in ww2,
is because befour realizing hitlers 'real' plans,
the simple fact is, that France and other countrys in europe had the same bloody attatude as them, in one forum or another.

And true to there heritage (france), that attatude continues even today...

Britain however (true to her heritage) never took fasisem seriosly... And this is reflected today in our 'Free and inclusive society'.

And I concider 'That' as something to take 'pride' in.

SexPistoL · Jul 17, 2005, 06:35 PM

As Wellington said "filthy French can not be trusted" This again was proven in WW2 with their Vichy goverment. Then again with there "oil agreament with Sadam" and lack of military presence in the last gulf war, because again as always they are on the take and are cowards!
A great gesture was invented during Henry V time at Agincourt by his archers the "V" sign. They would never take our "Bow fingers" thick fcuk's they still think it's a victory sign...........

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jul 17, 2005, 07:54 PM

Wow and considering the french was violating unsantions and was in bed with
saddam it's funny to hear that.

I did some looking an found some interesting reading!

Quote:

In many countries of Europe, former inmates of the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have been relishing their freedom. In Spain, Denmark and Britain, recently released detainees have railed in public about their treatment at Guantanamo, winning sympathy from local politicians and newspapers. In Sweden, the government has agreed to help one Guantanamo veteran sue his American captors for damages.

Not so in France, where four prisoners from the U.S. naval base were arrested as soon as they arrived home in July, and haven't been heard from since. Under French law, they could remain locked up for as long as three years while authorities decide whether to put them on trial -- a legal limbo that their attorneys charge is not much different than what they faced at Guantanamo.

Armed with some of the strictest anti-terrorism laws and policies in Europe, the French government has aggressively targeted Islamic radicals and other people deemed a potential terrorist threat. While other Western countries debate the proper balance between security and individual rights, France has experienced scant public dissent over tactics that would be controversial, if not illegal, in the United States and some other countries.

http://discardedlies.com/entries/200..._in_france.php

French Push Limits in Fight On Terrorism
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2004Nov1.html

AttroPheed · Jul 22, 2005, 04:55 AM

The french are just hard on anyone that isn't french. (Try ordering a bigmac without pickles in Paris and see if they actually do it without a shouting match.) Being obstinated bastards just may have worked out to their possible advantage this time.

~~trodas~~ · Jul 22, 2005, 07:01 AM

Well, Franch is going agains terrorism? How come, they started persecuction of GWBush and his clan, as the biggest proven terrosits ever?

No?

Then how they are fighting agains terrorism? AFAIK it was clearly GWBush neocons, military and jewish bankers (quess what was about Wall Street investigations in pulled building WTC 7?) that created the terrorism at 9. 11. 2001 and it was clearly THEM who benefiting from it all the way.

I did not see France fighting agains THESE, so France is weak on terrorism...

If you ask what about the other attacks - well, in case you miss it, the Spanish bombings was made by guys on payroll of secret services, the one supplied the explosives was informator of Spanish policie and all has ties to CIA.

It is too early to see who made the London bombings and now the scaring attepts, however one thing is clear - it is CIA to withold evedence accorging to 9/11 attacks. Why withold it, if it happens as we are told...???

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jul 22, 2005, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trodas

Well, Franch is going agains terrorism? How come, they started persecuction of GWBush and his clan, as the biggest proven terrosits ever?

No?

Then how they are fighting agains terrorism? AFAIK it was clearly GWBush neocons, military and jewish bankers (quess what was about Wall Street investigations in pulled building WTC 7?) that created the terrorism at 9. 11. 2001 and it was clearly THEM who benefiting from it all the way.

I did not see France fighting agains THESE, so France is weak on terrorism...

If you ask what about the other attacks - well, in case you miss it, the Spanish bombings was made by guys on payroll of secret services, the one supplied the explosives was informator of Spanish policie and all has ties to CIA.

It is too early to see who made the London bombings and now the scaring attepts, however one thing is clear - it is CIA to withold evedence accorging to 9/11 attacks. Why withold it, if it happens as we are told...???

You spilling that conspiracy theroy junk from
WTC and 911 questions
over into this thread

Your the reason there needs to be internatinal liable laws regarding what said on
internet forums, blogs, websites etc as so people like you could be sued, massively
fined, even face jail time for makeing basesless claims and accusations. Uness you
can persannly prove beyond any resonable doubt that its true...not what just in your
mind or you read from some "conspericy theory" and crack pot websites.

Many were the people don't seem to be playing with less then 52 cards and have lost
most of thier marbles. Mostly looking to get people to Pick on the US goverment becouse
they hates the US it seems they can make up anything and someone will still belive it.
Everythings a "consiracy" with some people...

BTW:
The secret CIA elfs under your bed are conspiering to steal your underwear!!!

br00ksintexas · Jul 22, 2005, 07:24 AM

poI'm just wondering. How many conspiracy theories have actually been proven, throughout our modern history? 999 times out of 1000 they're proven just that: Conspiracy Theories, thought up by paranoid nutjobs who typically suffer one form or another of chemical mental imbalance.
Trodas, America isn't and naver has been comparable to the former communist U.S.S.R. The govt. doesn't usually do things covertly to fuck over their citizenry, as did the Soviet Union. If we look at both Communist history, and Democratic, we see clearly that Democratic policy is adhered to more constantly.
Who blew up the WTC? Terrorists. No proof, none that was considered RELIABLE has EVER been taken seriously. That includes your proof. London 7/7 bombings? Terrorists. Again, no proof of govt. conspiracy there, either. Spain bombings, Ditto. The world as a majority see's all of these bombings as "terroristic acts carried out by Muslim Extremist Factions".
I can only wonder how empty a mind is that it has all these "boogie man conspiracy theories" floating around in it. LOL. Do you question why 2+2=4, also, or can you somehow just take it as what it is, a proven fact?

~~trodas~~ · Jul 22, 2005, 07:25 AM

No, I just arguing that France did not go after the terrorists, because I did not see them sentencing biggest proven terrorist GWBush and his bro Marvin to life sentence

And you know, there is a overhelmin evidence, even w/o the what CIA withold, that neocons, military and jewish bankers are behind 9/11. You just have your eyes shut by media, lack of own ming or common sense.
Your probem.
It does not affect me in any way and freedom of speech is what I enjoy there. And Im not going to give it up, just because you did not like what I write.

And thanks for the CIA elf warning

You are funny, at least

~~trodas~~ · Jul 22, 2005, 07:28 AM

br00ksintexas - american goverment have a LONG history of lying and manipulating the public to war. Just read one there:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE5/

br00ksintexas · Jul 22, 2005, 07:40 AM

LOL. I said RELIABLE proof.

HMS-Dreadnought · Jul 22, 2005, 08:46 AM

I maybe willing to entertain the idea that the CIA has had links to at least 'some' things in the past.

I know they made a lot of stuff up during the cold war (exaurated russain capabilitys) .
they even claimed that all acts of terroisem , even the IRA were all part of a wider russian/communist attack on the world.

But I also know that they even admited that non of it was actualy true,

But some govenment guy 'up top' read it,.. and was convinced, even though the CIA told him it was fiction at best, and they had simply been asked to wright up a paper.

But to go to the point of claming the CIA were directly or indirectly involved some how in 911, the madrid bombings, etc,.. and now london...

Com'on, even the CIA couldn't make something like 'THAT' up, let alone be genuinly involved in it.

HMS-Dreadnought · Jul 22, 2005, 08:51 AM

Besides,.. The CIA are far too busy knocking of the doors of people who have illegal copys of windows, to ever find the time to be ivolved in any of 'THAT' stuff.

gatti-man · Aug 1, 2005, 08:20 PM

Oh come one the French have far to many sins to think that they are harder on terrorism than anyone else. Maybe in their own country yes they take care of their own by pointing everything at britain and the US!

SFOSOK · Aug 1, 2005, 11:32 PM

Well, last time I checked the French have lost almost every major battle they have had without Napolian. The only love the USA when we have to save their asses from themselves. Ungrateful Frenchies

~~quanta67~~ · Aug 2, 2005, 05:40 AM

Lol, the French aren't 'hard on terrorism' they are just openly racist. If you even as much as stay out in the sun too long - and turn slighly brown, the French police and secret service will quickly be on your case and will be looking for ways to lock you up or deport you.

It might (to them) seem to make their country safer - but depite everything - is that really the way we want to go?

AttroPheed · Aug 2, 2005, 09:04 AM

after ww2 the french opened their borders to people willing to help rebuild their crushed country and arabs turned out in droves to oblige. a large portion of them stayed and multiplied and are now perfectly content living in disgusting slums and cashing in their government aid checks and getting free healthcare. the french love "anti-terrorism" because now it enables them to persecute the freeloading bastards with minimal retaliation from pesky civil rights groups and whatnot. Giving the french more space to eat cheese and be pretentious.

the difference between the muslim neighborhoods and the jewish neighborhoods is like night and day. its easy to see why they have such a problem with eachother. its like that old show "The Odd Couple" except Oscar has an AK-47 and wont listen to reason.

SFOSOK · Aug 2, 2005, 05:19 PM

I think The world should have a war against France and Canada to wipe them out. I bet the Phillipenes could win the French in a war. Japan would own them too, and they don't even have an army...

~~quanta67~~ · Aug 2, 2005, 07:07 PM

Now now, lets not get carried away, there is a thin line between friendly jest, international rivalry and down right racism. A lot of you guys just never got over the 'freedom fries' nonesense - regardless of the complete mess that resulted from your governments's involvement in the whole thing. I think the French were kind of right on that score, because all you suceeded in doing was kicking over a whole hornet's nest and stirring up more trouble for yourselves and for the world than anyone could ever possibly have needed.

The the French government might be a bunch of sons of bitches - but you have to realise not all French people are - just as it would be silly to say that all Americans are a bunch of hyper religious xenophobes. The government in France managed to gain power originally (much like in America) due to record levels of voter apathy - leaving only the more extreme elements (and therefore also the ones with the most to gain) in society as the only people with any real motivation to vote.

The lesson I think that is worth learning from both these examples is that when you neglect democracy - when you neglect to vote - all kinds of crazy bad shit can happen - and it can impact on your rights and on democracy and in your ability to tell your government what you want. If you vote, then clearly it is you who are the boss - and not George W. Bush or Jackass Chirac - and it is you and you alone who are able to limit their power, when (as politicians inevitably do) they try to take your freedoms away from you and attempt to aquire even more power for themselves.

If you don't vote, then you shouldn't be suprised when a bunch of extremist fanatics sieze power - and begin to set out to find ways to limit your freedom in whatever way they can - because really really you don't have much of a right at all to comment one way or another about it. The only thing of interest you can say, is that you deliberately let it happen.

SFOSOK · Aug 3, 2005, 02:22 AM

It doesn't matter if we vote. Don't you know that?

SFOSOK · Aug 3, 2005, 02:23 AM

If I could have voted then I would have still voted for Bush, because the democratic party (right now) are spend fucking crazy. Democrats have a good idea but the most dumbasses running it.

AttroPheed · Aug 3, 2005, 09:01 AM

maybe instead of arguing with your own post you could just use the edit button.