raid517

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4661059.stm

I'm gutted. I just don't understand it. What is it that they want? What is it that would make them happy? What is their goal? There just doesn't seem to be one.

At least when we were dealing with the IRA, they had demands, we knew where we stood - we could talk to them.

But what do these people want? There aren't even any demands.

I'm not saying in any sense that we should give in - but knowing what they wanted might at least be be a start.

I have no idea how we can fight this war - or even how we can can we win? When will it end?

And BTW I do blame the US and Israel to an extent for exporting this kind of terrorism to the rest of the world. We never had trouble like this before with Islamic extremists until the US decided to go on it's little (and totally pointless) adventure in Iraq).

And these kinds of suicide bombings first originated in Isreal - where there are a lot of pissed off people who are angry at America for supporting Isreal's supression of the Palestinians. It seems any friend of America is an enemy of theirs.

GJ

Zardon

You CAN never deal with guys like that, you only think you are - trust me on that point.

As for the bombings in london, well there is an off topic thread on that atm, I really am way too pissed to even get a coherant post on the subject.

Falstaff

We understand, based on our own intelligience that the same cell that constructed the mechanisms and funded the cells in Madrid also performed this work, it is unconfirmed but we will know within 48 hours where the bombs were made and almost definitely who or what organization did it....but catching them?
problematic at best, I just went through 30 minutes of inspection and debriefing today on threats against american contractors abroad and the there are over 170 know groups that target European and Americans for terrorist acts...this is getting really complicated...

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Zardon

170 groups?

raid517

With regard to the IRA - we did deal with them. We effectively beat them - which is what brought them to the negotiating table, when they finally realised that they could win through bombing us into sumission. (We also did kill large numbers of them too though - which I guess definately helped).

I am merely stating that this seems different. These guys don't even seem to have an agenda. They don't even seem to have a plan. I mean, what is it they think they are fighting for, what is it they want?

GJ

violat3

latest update Reporting Scotland (Scottish BBC news) teh Army have blown up a bus in Edinburgh through controlled explosion

nitrousoxide52

I just heard on the news, I didn't catch his name but, a man a while ago has tried to bomb the Underground a while ago, but he failed, he was stopped. But, from what I am informed, he took 1000 pounds of nitroglyceride I think it was, and that was what they think the bombs were made of.

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raid517

I think you mean nitroglycerine. And 1000 pounds of nitroglycerine would be enough to take out half of London.

GJ

nitrousoxide52

It was nitroglyceride, a class A explosive, which seems about right.

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Falstaff

these are clandestine cells and known affiliates of muslim extremists worldwide, or wherever we have siginicant financial or military interests.

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nuG

oh my goodness. that is not good.

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Zardon

We did??, is that why Tony Blair let convicted IRA terrorists out of jail to appease Sinn Fein (ran by more convicted terrorists) for this JOKE of a "seize fire", and they are running around the streets in Ireland right now selling drugs and killing people without the press reporting it. Blair has no interest in Ireland, never has done.

You guys dont know the HALF of what goes on here, seriously.

raid517

Who is 'you guys?' I was born and brought up in Glasgow, my mother was Cathloc and decended from Irish stock while my Dad was Protestant from a hard core presbeterian background - and boy did we learn at an early age about the meaning of secterianism. I experienced it on the ground - and I saw people die because of it.

And yes in many ways I think we did win, we did beat them. Now all they are are a bunch of thugs and criminals - who can make no claim to political legitamacy at all. It may be a hollow victory, but we did at least expose them in the end for what they really were.

They did finally learn that they couldn't beat us with bullets and bombs - and despite whatever the current ituation might be, that was still a worthwhile thing for us to do.

GJ

Zardon

"You guys" being the ones who dont live it every day in the streets and "you guys" who mistakenly think all this peace talk nonsense and Mr Blairs actions have had this "miracle cure" for Ireland and its economy and the people who live here. I knew people who died in the OMAGH bombing and the police have known for a long time who some of the guys were involved in that, but due to "political" reasons they were never arrested, ALSO, one of them was let go to appease Sinn Fein. The IRA is still very strong and thriving in Ireland just because they dont show up on the UK mainland TV news dont for one minute think that has changed, nothing has been beaten, they just dont phone in now with their code when someone gets kneecapped or when some guy end up beaten to death in a bar.

Your last line is the most niave statement ive ever seen you post. Tell that to the thousands of innocents who died here. Its not ending either - there is too much hatred for a piece of paper to solve anything.

raid517

Well call me an optimist if you want - but don't call me 'one of you guys'. I am not one of 'you guys'. I did live it, I was brought up on it and spoon fed it, I saw the concequences of it every day in the streets I walked in and in the people I knew. I knew people who went to Ireland from both sides of the fence and who 'took part' in the troubles. So I pretty much lived and breathed it. Indeed that is one of the biggest reasons I opted to try to get out of that city.

But one thing I am aware of is that the only thing that brought the IRA to the negotiating table to begin with was that in the 80's we killed and imprisioned so many of them. Believe it or not I have studied the history of that period - and like her or loath her (and my own personal sympathies lie with the latter of these) it was Margret Thatcher's refusal to negotiate and willingness to take the fight directly to them that pretty much decimated the IRA's fighting capacity at that time. So if nothing else it was almost undoubtedly a significant military victory. They had no choice in the end but to negotiate.

Does that mean they have gone away? I doubt it - but at least they are aware that winning through the bullet and the bomb may not be as easy as they once thought.

To be honest I don't know what your anger is about. The IRA are thugs, they always were thugs - they are always going to be thugs too. But what other solution is there but to try to talk, to try to get things as normal as we can? After all the people who get hurt most if we don't try are those caught in the middle, who are the ordinary people of Northern Ireland.

You seem to be very angry, but you don't seem to be able to offer any answers. What is your solution? 'Kill them, kill them all?'

Because if so, how does that make you any better than them? All that makes you is a barbarian too.

GJ

PS

I don't really want to go down this road, every time I remember people talking about this stuff back home, it usually resulted in someone getting hurt. So you will forgive me if it isn't my favorite topic.