London Bombed!

raid517

I just wonder what you think your solution is ZD. Mass graves for them all? Gather everyone up who doesn't in your view fit in and export them on ships to whoever the hell will take them? What exactly is your solution?

In days when you see Sine Fein and Ian Paisley, leader of the Democratic Unionist Party, sitting talking to each other (well maybe not directly - or at least maybe not quite in public) what exactly are you supposed to make of it? Do you imagine they 'like' each other, do you think they have suddenly forgotten the decades of mistrust and hatred that has existed between them, do you not think that given the opportunity they would still very much like to kill each other, rather than even contemplate being in the same room? Yet they do - and why? Well clearly the reason why they have done so is that they realise that it is simply impractical to go on endlessly killing each other - because in the end no one wins. They simply have no real option other than to sit down and talk.

And like it or loath it there is a price for this kind of 'peace'. Now it may seem like a high price - and it might well seem like a tough price to swallow - and undoubtedly it is. It is disgusting that these people who committed such horredous acts are out in public living amongs all the other decent people in society. It is gut wrenching too that they seem to think they have a right to be there. It may indeed seem like a high price for an imperfect peace - but it is still (from many people's perspective) better than no peace - and no forseeable prospect of peace in the future either. Have you ever head the phrase that an 'imperfect peace is better than no peace at all'? Well in this case that may well be true - particularly as I have said for the majority of ordinary people who have no interest in any of the terrorists squabbles and who have been caught in the middle of it all for so long. What other answer is there for them?

Anyway, like I said, i don't know how healthy it is to argue about these things. Arguments about Northern Ireland where I come from often ended up in people either being seriously hurt or killed. So it is not a good thing - and is certainly not my favorite topic.

With regard to the terrorists who struck London yesterday - I don't know if it is possible to talk to them. I doubt it is. I don't think they are interested in talking - and even if they were I doubt there would be anyone we could really talk too. Also their demands are likely to be completely crazy, that we 'all convert to their extremist form of Islam', or whatever. So I'm not sure that talking to them is really very practical. However we can at least learn from our mistakes - and from the things we do wrong in this world that leads people to hate us so much. But that IS the problem, because we never do seem to learn - we never really seem to grasp when it is important to just leave things well enough alone.

I am not saying you should never fight back - indeed you should make sure that you kill far more of them than they ever do of you. However there comes a time when more and more killing simply becomes pointless. There comes a time when if all you do is go on killing then you become exactly like they are - and if we become exactly like them - then as I have said before they have every right in this world to hate us. (Just as we do them).

GJ

Zardon

My solution is to lock up terrorists keep them locked up, have good policing which isnt hampered by bureaucratic redtape and bullshit and to stop letting in immigrants into our country.

Thats my solution, whats yours? talk them to death?

Anyway this is utterly pointless and a total waste of my time, you dont and never have listened to anyone in this forum. Your views are all that really matters even if they are frequently misguided.

Lets get the thread back on the subject of london and let some other people speak, after all you said 4 posts ago you would be silent, im sure other people would like that.

kelticknight

the people that bombed london if you want to call them people ,don't talk as you should know,they are different type .they have no reguard for western life,but don't have a problem living in it

raid517

I have no problem with putting people in Jail ZD. I don't advocate talking with terrorists at all if it can be avoided. But as I said, in London, Ireland or wherever at some point the killing has to stop. The question is how you make it stop? When people were being locked up, was your solution any better than mine? Did it stop the killing then either? The truth is nothing did - and nothing ever probably will. But that is no reason not to try to make life for those not involved in these petty squabbles as bareable and as peaceful as possible.

I believe in my views, I have stong convictions and opinions on many subjects. I don't think it shows any character at all if a man is not prepared to stand up for the things he says he believes in. And for that I will make no appology, not to you and not to anyone.

As I said, these subjects do tend to generate an abnormal amount of heat and anger. Why I wonder is that always the case with Ireland? But in any case, if other people do have a point of view on any of these topics - I am as open as anyone here to hearing it.

Best regards,

GJ

kelticknight

raid517
as l said before
you don't know the half of it,unless you felt it,lived it ,been there
l can see you have your views on it,but beleive me ,your so off the mark,don't think you ever will understand how it was and is today
your views say everything
for people who live on this island,north and south,we have learnt to get on with our lives,with little help from uk and usa ,only a lot of talk
its the people of this island who if you want to call it peace brought it to be
the people in limelight get the credit
to people of the island ,different bull from them politications
won't me big difference to me

raid517

You think I don't know don't you? You really think I don't know? Well I'm not going to play this one like some pissing contest.

Like I said, for some people here it all just sounds like so much theory. Not for me it isn't. And that really is all I am going to say on that specific subject. The problem with you guys is that you seem to think that the crap that came out of there only affected you and you alone. Well I can tell you it didn't.

GJ

Zardon

Your views have been stated many times and they are quite frankly some of the most ridiculous views ive ever heard in my life, I honestly until recently thought you were a sensible person and I have to admit my opinion of you has sunk totally with some of the things ive seen you post. I mean how on earth would you not have a problem locking up a terrorist who has killed people? that just is a total mindset I cant even begin to fathom, and yet you say you are an irish man who understand the conflict. Yet your word show absolutely NO understanding or inside knowledge of this whatsoever. Your words to me actually seem to be coming from soneone in a foreign country who has NO idea about what goes on here. How on earth can you stand up for something you have absolutely no idea about??! Its all very well feeling hard done by if the subject at hand is something you have some knowledge about. I mean ive given you information you clearly didnt know and ive heard no rational or intelligent reply to any of it, just meaningless commentary on the fact you will stand by what you believe in and will fight for your beliefs?. All I see you stand by is the fact you believe above everything else to talk to everyone regardless of who they have killed or what attrocity they have done, then hopefully every person you do this with will suddenly just lay up arms and become a peaceful member of society abiding by law. thats just pure naivity proved inaccurate throughout history - its something a child would belief when his father is reading him a bedside book, its not even an educated statement!

As for your "apology" whatever on earth that means, what on earth are you waffling on about? you keep stating your views are yours and you make no apology or will never change them, yet you are "open"?

kelticknight

raid517
ireland subject is one of the oldest ,as we say here, troubles in our history,you still don't get it , raid
you throw words like anger,hate around. in the 1916 to 40 ,then maybe anger,hate.now adays.have to say no,but what angers people is the leftovers of ira,uvf and the rest of them drug pushing .killing people and the so called police in charge doing nothing and they know who they are.don't get me going.so raid,please ,you live in uk,not here,so get real

kelticknight

l can see lm wasting my time here
its the same old ding dong
raid,takes more than understanding
some of us have seen it and felt more than pain and loss
my wife telling me to let this thread go
because it will open old wounds,so i'll take her advice
cheers

Zardon

Actually you are right keltic. Im as tired as you are reading it.

My apologies to everyone else, but im closing this thread . anyone else who wishes to talk about the recent london bombings then open a thread and please do so. Hopefully it wont end up like this one has.

This kindergarden debate on ireland is over.