The end of Free Speech?

br00ksintexas

I think everyone who sides with the reporters in this issue is missing the point. They broke the law. PLAIN and SIMPLE. When a law is made, it's not handed down by one man alone. It's not something that's a swift process. It's time consuming and a concerted effort. If it's a bad law, then those who think it's bad should change it. Now, with that said, I also mean those who can. (People of the nation with THAT particular law.) If the law doesn't effect you, and if your spouting off about it won't ever make a dent in it, then isn't it just useless bitching at that point? And, don't get me wrong. Good discussion isn't bitching, but when you harp harp harp "America is a monster", "America is Evil". "America is so mean, damnit.", you're whining, not discussing. I can't think of any country on earth that has no good points, but from reading the political posts here, I can see that MANY of YOU do! Envy is a bitch, huh??? LOL
Personally, I think that it's a good law. Any person who's working undercover for any police/govt. agency should be protected from having their cover exposed. That's how people needlessly die. The story still could've ran, and still have been as credible, if no name had been used at all. Many news agencys around the globe run reports using "anonymous sources" to protect peoples identitys. These people were name dropping and grandstanding. Now, they're paying the price, the legal price, for their lawlessness. If you don't want the time, don't do the crime.
Nuff Said
=o)
Kev

Ðamage™

hahah another americans point of view, funny how you guys all say the same thing. So who is suppose to challenge the government.. you? I sure as hell hope not. What she did was noble and right as far as your laws go.. and if no one stands up against them then I guess your suppose to take it for face value.. is that it? We need people like her that stand up for what they think is right and the right for "freedom of speech". Ok lets just say for arguement sake that yes.. she did do something that was against your "laws" and she is being punished rightfully so.. how are you suppose to find out if your laws are good or not if no one stands up to them?

Gabriel_Etranil

If our "laws" are so wrong in your 'opinion' how many of them should we break and still be 'noble'?

Is tax fraud noble? Is breaking in entering noble? Is pedifilia a law to be respected or disobeyed? If your so wise and 'noble' why don't you search through every entire US law and tell us which ones we should disobey and which ones we should obey. Since you obviously know better than thousands of people, tell us what rules we should follow. Should we follow international law only and shuck our sovereignty and just be ruled only by the UN and no longer have Presidential or Congressional elections?

Everybody is claiming the right for the confidentiality of the Press but not at the right of another branches confidentiality. That is utter nonsense.

Should there be no restrictions on the Press?

Ðamage™

Don't go "bang bang crazy" there gab.. Let's stay on the thread here.. it's called "freedom of speech" not.. is it ok to be a pedophile and blah blah.. god. I never said there should be no restrictions on press... I'm speaking about this particular journalist.. I didn't say anything about your ALL your laws being wrong.. man wake up hahah.

And dont try to be some righteous american by mocking me or putting words/letters into the situation. Your getting a little ahead of yourself there big guy.

br00ksintexas

Coming from a Canadian, Damage, your point is moot. LOL

Ðamage™

Ya good one.. if you can't keep with the topic then don't bother me.. shoefly.

br00ksintexas

Damage, After re-reading your post, let's say we all disagree with the assault laws or murder laws. How about we all start shooting people in the streets like the 'Old West'. LOL
Now, what would happen, other than EVERY law breaker being punished? Does it mean that murderers are Patriots? HAHA You give the most demented viewpoint yet on legal points. If someone doesn't like a law, you go through the "legal AND political process to change it". Nothing more, nothing less. This law she broke, which was "exposing the true identity of a covert operative of our nation" was something that could have gotten that operative, or their spouse and family, killed. No matter what you think or say, NO BREAKING OF A LAW DESIGNED TO PROTECT THEM is JUSTIFIED.
=o)
BTW. How's hockey season????? lol Yet more Canadians run amuck
Kev

br00ksintexas

Righteous American? As opposed to what? An ever whiney neighbor?

Ðamage™

what.. are you 11teen? Listen man if you want to flame.. then go to the flame zone.. if you want to talk about politics and religious debates then by all means please post something that make's sense and is somewhat intelligent.
"exposing the true identity of a covert operative of our nation" Is not why she's in jail.. she's in jail because she didn't... wow. Were the hell does "shooting people and the old west" come into play here.. Ok maybe my earlier post was a little broad but you get the fkin point so don't be a dumbass. We're talkin about a woman that didn't give up her informant on a CIA operative.. were not talking about shooting people at random here.. the bottom line is I'm glad she didn't rat him/her out.. that's the issue.. not the fkin wild west or whether I agree or disagree with your fkin laws..

Zardon

guys, debate without the aggression and namecalling.

Ðamage™

LoL sorry Z.. just hate how kids like to turn your words into something stupid that makes no sense and then try and act like their superior. apologize.. just steamed.. it's forgotten

br00ksintexas

What's 11teen? Is that even an educated remark???
And , again, I think you missed the DEEPER point I made. The points were this.
A: A law WAS broken and the courts ruled IN FAVOR of upholding it. Why cry about it. The ruling is historic fact, now.
B: The last time I, or anyone else for that matter, looked, no Canadian could dictate American law. I don't bitch about Canadian law. It never has and never will affect me. I've got much better things to do than whine about a law in a country of which I don't even live in. If a law in my own country bothers me, then I'll write my congressperson and let my viewpoint be known. I might, if I'm REALLY bored, talk to my friends about it. Word of mouth still has a small place in the political process, I think.
Now, if you're trying to argue semantics, then again, Freedom of Press has it's limits. Ask someone who yells "BOMB" on an airplane or bus or train if Freedom of Speech applies. There ARE limits to most things, Freedom of Speech being one of them. And rightfully so. Otherwise you'll always have some lame retard trying to push the envelope even further.

To me, personally, political debate in a global forum is a very hard tightrope to walk. Outsiders will typically have an opposing viewpoint because they don't know the entire situation. And, in this particular corner of this forum, how many GLOBAL issues are debated? Usually, as I said, it's outsiders pointing fingers, and locals defending their own govt.

Also, Damage, I'm sorry for the anti-Canadian tone to my posts towards you. Since I saw Michael Moore's movie "Canadian Bacon", which I hated by the way, it's left me with a low sense of respect for Canadians in general. In almost every forum I'm active on, not to mention in most games I play online, Canadians have a "Holier than Thou" attitude when it comes to America and Americans. I can't imagine why. I look at history at what all America as a whole has given the world. Can't say the same about Canada. Sorry.

br00ksintexas

Oh, and as for kids, Damage, I'm sure I'm your elder. I'm 37, Married, 2 kids, 2 dogs, and already retired. =o) This started out about defending the point of the topic. A law was broken, and now someone's being held accountable. It's not my fault you don't see it that way. Luckily the courts did, though.

Ðamage™

Never said I disliked Americans there Cheif.. so don't get all bent out of shape.. see.. your exercising your right to "freedom of speech" good job man. Now go and play with your bigwheel.

peace

br00ksintexas

And, Zardon, as I said. I apologized about my negative viewpoint towards Canada and it's populous. Damn that Mike Moore for stereotyping them!!! Sadly, I've got the same thoughts towards the French and a few other locales to remain nameless. =o) I'll keep the namecalling to a minimum, though.

br00ksintexas

Damage, you initially posted "hahah another americans point of view, funny how you guys all say the same thing.". If that isn't denigrating Americans then I don't know what is. Are American viewpoints to be lesser of Canadian ones? And, in an issue of American law, would Canadian viewpoint take precedence over that of an American one?
Just tell me where you don't dislike Americans. Everything in your posting oozes of it. Like I said, I apologized for poking fun at your Canadian heritage. It was shallow of me. As a man, I admit that. Can you say the same about your anti-American sentiment????

Ðamage™

"hahah another americans point of view, funny how you guys all say the same thing"

It was a joke.. don't be so sensitive, notice the "hahah".. I dont think I'm the one with the hate on there br00k.. so don't try and label me. I love the American people and people in general, I also have family in America so dont bother. If you want to know my issue with America.. it's with your president and his administration. If you have hate against people or certain countries then thats your problem not mine.. dont take things out of context and we won't have an issue.

peace

br00ksintexas

I don't "hate" anyone. Sure, I look at others as "lesser thans", but I hate no one on earth.
Again, I said you talk down to Americans in EVERY posting you've made on this topic. Sure, you used humor (actually sarcasm), but you still did it, so in turn, I did it back to you. Am I a bigot? Nope. Am I opinionated? Sure, who isn't? Does it make me right or wrong? It all depends on an individuals viewpoint.
Also, you say your problem is with our (America's) current administration. Did you disagree with them pre 9/11? During the Clinton era? And, how exactly is our administration, in regards to this topic, affecting you, personally, publicly or privately, as a Canadian?
As I said, I usually just read the postings here. Some offer a great and knowledgeable viewpoint. Some, though, offer the same old tiring anti-American sentiment. Sometimes I feel it's a patriotic duty to poke fun right back at the initial poster. Other times, they're on mark, and if so, I'll remain silent, because why should I post to agree? I'll kiss no ones ass.
A point about something should be able to be made without beating a dead horse stereotype about a nationality. We've all heard it on these forums and in the real world. In regards to America, England, France, Canada, etc. so on and so fourth. And no, this isn't finger point, because I do it as well as MANY others here. I just think it would be nice to see someone try to make an educated, honest, non-combative point without the mudslinging so many think is necessary. (And yes, that includes my mudslinging ass, too)
=o)
Kev

Gabriel_Etranil

The thread is about reporters having the right to break the law in the name of Freedom of the Press. Since the people are the press how many laws can people break, and where will it end? You implied them all being wrong, being aloud to break a law you disagree with leaves no boundaries or limits, thus anarchy. Both the reporter and the reporter's source broke a law here.

Here is a not so extreme example concerning breaking of confidentiality:

If a reporter publishes medical records of a senator, and obtained them from a doctor without permission or authorization, did the reporter and the doctor break the patient\doctor confidentiality? Did they do the right thing by breaking this confidentiality?

Ðamage™

Of course not Gab.. it is against the law to breach that form of confidentiality, and the same would be against a journalist too.. i'm not saying your laws are garbage or nonesense in this sense bro. In the matter of this journalist though.. in the "big picture" what I think she did was right. But I understand that rules and laws are put into place so "anarchy" doesn't start or escalate.. For me, it's not a matter of whether or not she broke the law in the United States but what she was fundemantely fighting for.. that to me is what matters.

peace

Falstaff

I hate to belabor the point here...but this is not the current "spin".....
you would be surprised about the somantic...covert and what it really means...
you might perhaps think that an entity would remain "undercover" or transparent, but that is the furthest thing from the truth...believe me.
This is political garbage.....

"look into the abyss and search for a pair of eyes you recognise, but be very careful, it might be yourself you recognise" --Jeffrey Fallang

You fear the devil? demons? or Angels of apocolypse? dont be surprised if you find yourself staring right back.

Ðamage™

Hey br00k, just to set the record straight.. I don't talk down to "EVERY" American in "EVERY" post on this topic.. so don't make me look like i'm anti-american and enough with blowing what I say out of wack.. which you seem to think your pretty good at.

I think some of the statements from "some" Americans are ridiculous yes.. thats my opinion and i'll excercise my "freedom of speech" if I find the need. To your statement "how exactly is our administration, in regards to this topic, affecting you, personally, publicly or privately, as a Canadian?" Of course it affects me, like I said I have family and friends there so thats privately, publicly and personally affecting me.. I've talked to them and as Americans on an "Intellectual level" and they want to get out.. due to your wonderful Patriot Act among other things.. which takes a nonviolent, preemptive attack on it's own American citizens. They are fed up with all the bs with George.W "I'm a warrrrr president" Bush, and I don't blame them.. do you? (love to see what your response is). As a Canadian? Of course it bothers me too see my neighbours and brothers/sisters being brainwashed/spoon fed this crap, but that's another debate all together. Here's an interesting article that you should read or anyone that disagrees with me on this.. cause i'm sure there is.

Your Fantastic Patriot Act at work.

nitrousoxide52

Do you mind if I put that in my sig? That's a deep statement.

br00ksintexas

Then, as you just said, it affects your relatives, and you hear it through them, indirectly. But, again, it doesn't affect you DIRECTLY in ANY way, shape, or form.

As for being brainwashed, that's the spin everyone who "thinks" they're so enlightened uses to dispute any point. What makes one side so enlightened, yet the other so "brainwashed" as you name it?

As for the patriot act, if you've nothing to hide, no criminal record, and don't plan on breaking any laws in the future, then you've essentially got nothing to worry about. Now, mnd you, I haven't read the entire book. It's a thousand and how many pages??? LOL I've read the general idea of it though. My record, both military and civilian is spotless, except for a few tickets over 10 yrs. ago, so no worries on my end. I'm sure some people are scared of it, but with 9/11, there was a need for tighter national security. Did the Bush Administration go overboard? Possibly. It wasn't just Republicans who wrote the Patriot Act, though. But, again, that isn't the topic of this thread, Freedom of Speech is. My position has still yet to sway on that topic. These criminals shouldn't be protected under Freedom of Speech.

As for saying you don't talk down to Americans, you did to OldBuzzard with your "Sir, yes Sir" comment, to me with the "hahah another americans point of view, funny how you guys all say the same thing" comment, as well as others. The only time you don't, is when they have your same viewpoint. You say you do when it's "rediculous", but I ask you, are you the authority on the rediculousness of the American political viewpoint. Just because it's not YOUR viewpoint doesn't mean it's rediculous, something Raid seemed to have a problem with, too. It just means it's different. Now, I don't see how that's "thinking I'm good at putting your statements out of whack". It's just pointing out the obvious. Sometimes, we as people, would miss the forrest if it weren't for the trees.

I, for one, would say I totally agree with OldBuzzard's viewpoint. With laws, someone with character, integrity, and honesty has but one choice. Follow them to the letter. If they don't like it, then they can work to change it, but they don't break it. If they do, then they become a hypocrite in the values they expect from themself and others.

As for MANY Americans you've talked to wanting to get out, well, from what I've seen it's relatively simple to move to another country. The could leave, I would suppose. OR, they could work to promote their 2008 political candidate, making a difference, instead of running away from the problem they are perceiving. If they want to leave, why would I blame them? That would be kind of silly, wouldn't it? America isn't called "The land of the free and the home of the brave" for nothing. They have that freedom to leave. They should excercise it if they feel that strongly about it. MANY celebrities made the claim of moving out IF Bush won again.(Micheal Moore, The Baldwin Brothers, and many others) They're all still here, though. Isn't that funny?? Says something about the state of America today. It also speaks volumes as to the type