Iraqis Found in Torture House Tell of Brutality of Insurgents

digerati · Jun 28, 2005, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Marines on an operation to eliminate insurgents that began Friday broke through the outside wall of a building in this small rural village to find a torture center equipped with electric wires, a noose, handcuffs, a 574-page jihad manual - and four beaten and shackled Iraqis.

The American military has found torture houses after invading towns heavily populated by insurgents - like Falluja, where the anti-insurgent assault last fall uncovered almost 20 such sites. But rarely have they come across victims who have lived to tell the tale.

The men said they told the marines, from Company K, Third Marines, Second Division, that they had been tortured with shocks and flogged with a strip of rubber for more than two weeks, unseen behind the windows of black glass. One of them, Ahmed Isa Fathil, 19, a former member of the new Iraqi Army, said he had been held and tortured there for 22 days. All the while, he said, his face was almost entirely taped over and his hands were cuffed.

In an interview with an embedded reporter just hours after he was freed, he said he had never seen the faces of his captors, who occasionally whispered at him, “We will kill you.” He said they did not question him, and he did not know what they wanted. Nor did he ever expect to be released.

“They kill somebody every day,” said Mr. Fathil, whose hands were so swollen he could not open a can of Coke offered to him by a marine. “They’ve killed a lot of people."
..................
The manual recovered - a fat, well-thumbed Arabic paperback - listed itself as the 2005 First Edition of “The Principles of Jihadist Philosophy,” by Abdel Rahman al-Ali. Its chapters included “How to Select the Best Hostage,” and “The Legitimacy of Cutting the Infidels’ Heads."

Source: NY Times

OldBuzzard · Jun 29, 2005, 12:26 AM

Well, at least they weren't so barbaric as to have women 'humiliate' them, or put underwear on their heads. Now THOSE are things to get excited about. Just ask any liberal.

Ðamage™ · Jun 29, 2005, 12:42 AM

What fresh new hell is this...

Pompey · Jun 29, 2005, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Well, at least they weren't so barbaric as to have women 'humiliate' them, or put underwear on their heads. Now THOSE are things to get excited about. Just ask any liberal.

So that somehow justifies the policies/actions of the US government/personal? Torture is never justified regardless of who's the perpetrator or what cause they did it in the name of.
Nice to see you use 'liberal media' as a source now that it suites you.

Ferdinand_L · Jun 29, 2005, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldBuzzard

Well, at least they weren't so barbaric as to have women 'humiliate' them, or put underwear on their heads. Now THOSE are things to get excited about. Just ask any liberal.

Yeah you're right, we should do the same sort of torture to our prisoners... in the name of spreading democracy and the American way. That' will certainly convince the world of our good intentions won't it?

dpagan · Jun 29, 2005, 02:04 PM

All i can say is anyone or group that takes inocent people to torture or kill are just animals in my book. I can give a RATS ASS what religion or god told you it was ok to do.

Sandok · Jun 29, 2005, 02:08 PM

Bah what you wanna do about it? It won't stop, never has and a few more dead or a few more living on this planet won't change anything.

nitrousoxide52 · Jun 29, 2005, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpagan

All i can say is anyone or group that takes inocent people to torture or kill are just animals in my book. I can give a RATS ASS what religion or god told you it was ok to do.

People have been justifying things by religion since the BC's, it's not going to stop anytime soon.... ever heard of the crusades?

dpagan · Jun 29, 2005, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrousoxide52

People have been justifying things by religion since the BC's, it's not going to stop anytime soon.... ever heard of the crusades?

I sure have, that's why my comment was in general (no single religion pointed out). They're all the same to me, it's all about manipulating praying on peoples fears. And yes there's nothing one can do it's always going to happen. I'm just amazed on how people fall for this shit. GOD gave us free choice but yet you let a mortal make the choices for you.

OldBuzzard · Jun 30, 2005, 01:08 AM

Well now, it seems that I've touched a nerve or two.

I see nothing in my post that advocates that WE torture anyone. Maybe someone can't read all that well beause of 'outcome based' education.

Since sarcasm and humor, seem to be foreign ideas to at least two people here, I guess I'll have to explain it so that the 'least common denominator' can understand it.

I was pointing out the fact that while not necesarily the most 'politically correct' thing for our troops to have done was humiliate the Iraqi prisoners, that it falls far far short of true torture. And note, they HUMILIATED them, they didn't TORTURE them.

As for the 'liberal press'...where in my post is that term even used? I mentioned LIBERALS, but said nothing about the press.

Hh mmmmm...methinks someone doth protest too much

yaser345 · Jun 30, 2005, 11:20 AM

(quote)574-page jihad manual (quote)

Biggest lie.

nitrousoxide52 · Jun 30, 2005, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yaser345

(quote)574-page jihad manual (quote)

Biggest lie.

That's the same thing as me calling the Bible a lie.

Ferdinand_L · Jun 30, 2005, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldBuzzard

Well now, it seems that I've touched a nerve or two.

I see nothing in my post that advocates that WE torture anyone. Maybe someone can't read all that well beause of 'outcome based' education.

Since sarcasm and humor, seem to be foreign ideas to at least two people here, I guess I'll have to explain it so that the 'least common denominator' can understand it.

I was pointing out the fact that while not necesarily the most 'politically correct' thing for our troops to have done was humiliate the Iraqi prisoners, that it falls far far short of true torture. And note, they HUMILIATED them, they didn't TORTURE them.

As for the 'liberal press'...where in my post is that term even used? I mentioned LIBERALS, but said nothing about the press.

Hh mmmmm...methinks someone doth protest too much

Oh I can read just fine thank you, and spell! Bottom line is that brutal behaviour from terrorists is expected, that's why we're fighting them. When people like you minimize our own bad acts, it detracts from our credibility. We have been saying all along that we are fighting to "promote democracy" and "spread freedom" and that we are the good guys. I hate to tell you, but if I'm looking at America's actions from the outside trying to decide who the good guys really are, this kind of sentiment sure doesn't promote the values we say we're fighting for.

Nevertheless, the bottom line is that this kind of behaviour by our troops lessens our ability to win the conflict. If even one additional terrorist is created or supported because we have now given him the hatred against America to do so, then that is enough justification to stop doing these things. Don't you think that achieving the mission is important? And if so, then why do you support these acts? Revenge? Because it makes people like you feel better to see them "damn ferners" with panties on their head???

And why is it that anyone who disagrees or questions America's current foreign policy is immediately branded a "liberal"? As a former Republican, I have always believed in the core conservative concepts of less government and fiscal responsibility. Which of those two have the Republican party promoted in the last 4 years? I guess calling others names, questioning their patriotism, and personal attacks are a good distraction from the facts. Goebbels would be proud.

yoda133113 · Jun 30, 2005, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrousoxide52

That's the same thing as me calling the Bible a lie.

No calling the Quran a lie would be the same, while calling a jihad manual a lie would be like calling a Christian guide to war a lie.

As for whether calling one religious book a lie is equivolent to calling another a lie is another conversation, because by taking up many religions (especially Christianity or Islam, among others) you are saying that your God (Allah, etc.) is the ONE True God, and therefore all other holy books would be a lie, so when I say I believe in the Bible and I am a Christian (which I am), then I do say that the Quran is a lie.

Sandok · Jun 30, 2005, 03:49 PM

Bah, religion is a lie!

raid517 · Jun 30, 2005, 08:29 PM

Correction religion is a lie for those too dumb to understand even the simplest scientific and physical principals that govern the world around them. If an idea is too complex, they look for something simpler explain the things they see - and sadly it is religion for many that seems to fit the bill. Religion = ignorance. Period!

As for the topic? The inurgents are bad people? Noooo! You don't say? Really?

You know though, the Vietcong were said to be bad people too - and they did some pretty nasty things. And we all know what happend there. But hey, they seemed to turn out alright in the end - once that is the Americans left. (Except I forgot, America didn't 'leave', it got booted out).

GJ

nitrousoxide52 · Jun 30, 2005, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raid517

Correction religion is a lie for those too dumb to understand even the simplest scientific and physical principals that govern the world around them. If an idea is too complex, they look for something simpler explain the things they see - and sadly it is religion for many that seems to fit the bill. Religion = ignorance. Period!

As for the topic? The inurgents are bad people? Noooo! You don't say? Really?

You know though, the Vietcong were said to be bad people too - and they did some pretty nasty thing. And we all know what happend there. But hey, they seemed to turn out alright in the end - once that is the Americans left. (Except I forgot, America didn't 'leave', it got booted out).

GJ

That's exactly what I think, I just don't like to offend people

, religion was first created by people who wondered why water fell from the sky. That religion ended because we figured out why water fell from the sky. All of todays religons will end when we discover what it feels like to die, and can talk about it. And, I'm not just talking about stopped heart (they changed the defenition of dying now anyways, all brain activity must cease for you to now be pronounced dead.)

raid517 · Jun 30, 2005, 09:46 PM

You can't discover what it feels like to die. That doesn't make any sense. Your brain simply gets starved of oxygen and stops working. Maybe you might halucinate slightly due to hypoxia - but that's it. What's to tell?

All this talk about life after death is just a bunch of twaddle dreamt up by people who simply find it impossible to deal with their own insignificance and the finality of the period of time that they have on this earth.

I often hear such people say things like, 'how can I be - and then simply not be?' The idea that they can simply cease to exist both bemuses and terrifies them.

I often think that if these people ever did realise that their time on this earth was all that they had, that people might start being a lot nicer to each other. After all if the time you have here is all you have, then you had better make sure those people you love and care for are aware of this now - because there may never be a chance to tell them this again.

GJ

nitrousoxide52 · Jun 30, 2005, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raid517

You can't discover what it feels like to die. That doesn't make any sense. Your brain simply gets starved of oxygen and stops working. Maybe you might halucinate slightly due to hypoxia - but that's it. What's to tell?

All this talk about life after death is just a bunch of twaddle dreamt up by people who simply find it impossible to deal with their own insignificance and the finality of the period of time that they have on this earth.

I often hear such people say things like, 'how can I be - and then simply not be?' The idea that they can simply cease to exist both bemuses and terrifies them.

I often think that if these people ever did realise that their time on this earth was all that they had, that people might start being a lot nicer to each other. After all if the time you have here is all you have, then you had better make sure those people you love and care for are aware of this now - because there may never be a chance to tell them this again.

GJ

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