14-year old girl expelled for fiction written in Private Journal

Wretch

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."

- Dwight D. Eisenhower

Put your energies into something worthwhile people. Defend those people before you defend your right to bear arms. All I'm saying is there is much more to life than this. Guns, by their nature, are designed to be fired at living things. Without life, even at it's most basic incarnation, they would have no purpose at all.

Ironic that John Lennon was killed by a madman with a gun.

"Give peace a chance."

Just for a moment think about life 1000 years from now.. will guns still be part of American culture in any other form than in a museum?

BWX

At the rate we are giving up our constitutional rights, we won't be allowed to own guns in 20 years time-

1000 years? Why bother even thinking that far ahead. We'll all be dead and gone anyway.

digerati

"A man was beating a 16-year-old girl with a pipe Wednesday morning on Detroit's west side.

Suddenly, the man was dead, shot several times by a passenger in a passing car.

Police are looking for the driver of the car and the gunman, who might not be a criminal suspect, but a much rarer species -- a drive-by vigilante.

"Under certain circumstances, a citizen taking violent action to protect themselves or others is warranted," said Detroit Police Cmdr. Craig Schwartz of the major crimes division. "We need to know if these actions are justified.'

The dead man was identified as Johnny Donaldson Jr., 22, of Detroit. Police said he was swinging a metal pipe at several women and girls at Northlawn and Plymouth at 7:45 a.m.

That's when the motorist, with the passenger next to him, rolled by in a silver Pontiac. The driver stopped, and the passenger opened fire from inside the car. Then, police said, the car might have driven over the man.

Police were investigating Donaldson on Wednesday evening and had no motive for the pipe attack. It was not known if he knew his victims. "

Source: http://www.freep.com/news/locway/nshot23_20031023.htm

And if you really wanna debate the Moore numbers, you have to ask yourself some questions, like how many of those deaths are suicide? And Canada may have a high gun capita but they're mainly hunting rifles, hard to have a drive by with those. And if I remember right, the UK had very few gun kills but a hell of a lot of stab kills, making the weapon of choice the knife. Guns aren't the problem, it's the people. Don't go after the tools, go after the source.

Some things Java left out that were wrong with the movie. The nuclear weapons place didn't make nuclear weapons, they made rockets that delivered sattelites. The kids did NOT go bowling that morning. And he altered the ending sequence of the Heston interview. Moore only has one camera man following him when Heston is walking away and he pulls out the picture. Look at that scene carefully, he only has one camera man yet he gets two angles at once? NOPE. Says something to get Heston's attention, has the camera man move then adds a whole sad picture of dead girl to make Heston who is suffering from Alzheimers look bad.

Moore if you're reading this, I hope you burn in hell you fat pig.

merry

And what is being done to get "the source"... Besides arguing "guns are good".

And supporting vigilantism. If Hitler had died of cancer, would have cancer been any "better", an acceptable risk as long as it got the bad guy?

Judas

No.. they are NOT mostly hunting rifles..... your crazy if you think that.... no idea.... i can within 15 minutes... see 100's of the sapposedly "rarest" guns..... that's dependant..... mostly hunting rifles....no no.... that's completely wrong.... i'm pretty sure you don't need a bloody m16 or maybe a 44/45 sitting around..... what about a damn elephant gun?.... sure.... moose.... if you want to leave no remain peices around..although it'd be ilegal to shoot one..... hell, i've seen a rocket launcher and a gernade launcher.... "loaded" btw....

digerati

If you've seen 1,000,000 guns then you still haven't seen 6,000,000 others according to Moore. And I doubt it if you've seen 1,000,000 guns. Hell I've never seen 1,000,000

digerati

Not enough is being done to get the source. Because morons keep to "guns are good" or "guns are bad". And cancer isn't avoidable, so I think everyone would have been happy if it did kill Hitler.

studbagel9

This may be a conspiracy theory view here, but hear me out. I'm all for the guy who said that getting rid of the guns will only make the problems worse. Guns are POWER. If we didn't have guns, how would any revolt which led to a revolution ever begin? It is true some coup's have taken place without firing a shot, but if the citizens of a country didn't have guns, how could they protect themselves from a government which may at one point turn oppressive. On another note. Criminals are criminals because they do illegal things. Like another posted earlier said, they can get guns even if they are illegal. How would we fight back? I'm not saying we SHOULD in a Eutopian society even have to worry about that kind of thing, but hey, it's the world we live in. Here's another issue: Gun's as used in hunting is a heritage. If you don't like it, okay, fine, you don't have to, but there are people out there who have been hunting for generations. Guns are a pivotal part of that.
To those who say hunt with a bow and arrow:
Unless you're a complete vegan you'll have to face the reality that commercial meat animals live in some of the most inhumane circumstances imaginable, and the way they meet their demise is much more horrific than being shot, which is a one and done affair. Bow's and Arrow's are MORE inhumane than guns for this reason: How does an animal die by being struck by an animal? It bleeds to death. I've seen an animal take anywhere from 5 to 35 minutes to bleed out. Imagine how good that feels? That is one of the reasons I don't hunt with a Bow.


Anyway, there may not have been a point to my rant, but it's fun to get flamed anyway.

BWX

Well, here in the US you go to the damn voting both and vote. You don't fight the government with guns, you will always lose. WACO TX? remember that? The government will always have more guns that are more organized. I think that's a pretty bad argument for the right to own a gun.



















It doesn't hurt the deer (or whatever) to bleed to death- Even if it did, well that's what happens, the deer will be dead anyway. Plus, animals don't feel pain the same way we do- they just aren't that sensitive to it. Bow and arrows are not an inhumane way to hunt. What is inhumane is to let the population of animals get so out of hand that the land can no longer support them and they starve to death , or get hit be cars.

ZzzombieBunny

What a load of bullshit.

It doesnt matter what the hell the guns are supposed to be used for, there is clearly a problem when no other county in the world has similar problems. If a kid sticks a fork in his eye, you take the fork away and teach em not to do that... then again a fork is used for eating.. a gun is used for what? Killing and/or harming people? Who needs guns? The police, military, hunters... not the whole friggin public.

Between 1979-1997, 651,697 people were killed by guns in the USA... thats more than during 216 years of war in US history...

You can easily say its not the guns that kill, but people using them. But then again you could also question "why the hell are people running around with guns if they use them to kill others or themselves?"

ZzzombieBunny

And the above post about animals not feeling pain... you cant just make up facts and claim they are true?

Both animals and humans have similar nervous systems, a capacity to feel pain enhances a species prospects for survival, since it causes members of the species to avoid sources of injury. Its pure logic, pain is a modifier that tells the host that its body is in danger of damage. I cant possibly see how animals would survive without being able to feel pain.

And should someone make claims that a lack of higher intelligence would mean a creature cant feel pain, well thats like saying babies cant feel pain.

BWX

It's called living in a free society- where the government doesn't tell you how to live your live, and it;s also part of the constitution, part of what makes the US a great country to live in. And if it's so bad here, why do we have such an immigration problem? Guns give the public the right to protect themselves from criminals- who will have guns if they are legal or not.




You obviously didn't read my post. I said they don't feel pain the SAME way we do- not that they don't feel any pain at all. I also said that a deer wouldn't be in pain because of BLEEDING to death. If anything, bleeding to death would cause euphoria, lack of oxygen to the brain? Ever heard of laughing gas?

craig588

ok, I'm just gonna state some points that I feel, not in direct respone to anyones posts.

1. If gun control was instituted the people that wanted to use guns illegally would still find a way to get them.

2. Gun control would make it very difficult for me to get weapons for target shooting, which I and many other people greatly enjoy.

3. Hunting for sport is wrong, hunting for survival is another thing.

ZzzombieBunny

Actually thats kinda ironic considering the original post in this thread... children arent allowed to express their thoughts in a diary in school... I dont know about you, but that doesnt sound like a free society to me.

If there wasnt any guns available to the public, then you wouldnt have to suspect children of bringing guns to school...

In all countries in the world, criminals have acess to guns... but in America its considered a right even. I mean you gotta admit the logic of protecting yourself against guns, with guns is kinda stupid. By doing so your opening the society for more crime than a society without guns.

Not all murders are crime related, etc being robbed. Im sure theres people who murder other people and due to alcohol or rage.. and would not be able to do so without guns... same for all those kids and teenagers shooting other kids and teenagers at school. I cant see how they could possible have done that without acess to guns.


Obviously there is a problem that wont go away even if guns are removed from society... but at least people not as many people will have to die due to it?

For being the land of the free, America has buttloads of restrictions on its citizens freedom. Personaly I would consider it a positive effect to add guns to those restrictions...




Well I just reacted on the statement of animals not feeling pain in similar ways as humans, since thats untrue.

I didnt really care for the matter of if bleeding to death causes less pain or not. Although ive been knife stabbed once and from personal experience I cant remember the actual bleeding hurting, the actual knife stabb itself hurt allot... as well as the healing process for the following month or so, making my arm pretty much useless due not being able to move due to the pain involved in it. So the deer bleeding to death prolly wouldnt feel so much pain from the actual bleeding process, but the wounds cause would certainly hurt... if it were to move, which I assume it would if it had the capacity to do it.... since its a basic instinct to get away from harms way... thats what I did when I got stabbed.

GOG

There's a word for that behavior, it's called "Anarchy".

BWX

No- that's the whole point, we are fighting to keep our freedoms every day. People are fighting against us to take them away.









Again, wrong. If guns weren't legally available there would be a black market- and children would find a way to get guns if they wanted them.. That is a naive way of thinking.






It isn't considered a right, it IS a right. Again, what part of "criminals will get guns whether they are illegal or not" don't you understand? Do you disagree with that statement? If you do, you are living in a fantasy land.









Thank God I have a constitution to protect me from people who think like you.. and would pose more restrictions on my personal freedoms..



Prove it- you can't. So you think killing animals is bad then? You would rather have them starve to death and get maimed when they get hit by cars because of overpopulation?









LOL- not all murders are crime related.... MURDER IS A CRIME. Again, anyone in the entire world who wants a gun bad enough WILL get one. Putting more restrictions on them just affects law abiding citizens. You seem to keep dodging that statement, which totally negates all your arguments.. I guess there's no point in debating someone who sounds like a broken record and won't acknowledge the facts. The fact is people woulld get guns anyway, no one disagrees with that- you just seem to ignore that when you make your arguments. Please respond to that fact before you argue any more about restricting my right to own a gun.

Wretch

BWX -- you discuss these things like a ten year old...

BWX said:

"That is a naive way of thinking.
what part of "criminals will get guns whether they are illegal or not" don't you understand?
you are living in a fantasy land.
protect me from people who think like you..
Prove it- you can't.
LOL"

Have a nice night.

<3 Wretch

BWX

And yet you still don't acknowledge the argument you made is a farce after being asked to respond 12 times.


You debate like a deaf person.


Good night.

No lub fo u


*edit*
quick, go look up the word farce!

ZzzombieBunny

BWX232, My arguments might not be the best, but yours are just plain desperate. You fail to see the problem, thousands of people getting killed yearly.... and I doubt all those people would die if there wasnt such easy acess to guns.

I dont think people should be allowed to own guns, its a matter of public safety, no one can guarantee a person is going to use his or her gun correctly... It takes one click to kill a person, I just wouldnt trust people with guns... and its right of freedom id gladly give away if I had it.

BWX

Yes, people getting killed is bad.. I AGREE..

In a perfect world no guns world exist- Taking away law abiding citizens guns is the answer??? You are wrong- criminals will still have guns, only now law abiding citizens will have no guns, and criminals will know this and take advantage.. Then there will be many studies costing the taxpayers billions trying to rationalize this fact...... like this:

Live to far away from police--- http://www.aic.gov.au/media/2001/20010131.html

Beer is to blame----- http://ink.news.com.au/mercury/mathg...4/940823a1.htm

These are the result of a 2 second search.. I could find 1000 more examples. I agree regular citizens should not have RPG's and AK47's-- obviously.. So don't even go there next-- I'm talking about regular rifles, shotguns and handguns.


US as of 2001 has LOWER INCREASE IN VIOLENT CRIME RATE THAN AUSTAILIA and UK..


Yes - you heard me..

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=21902



Britain, Australia top U.S.
in violent crime
Rates Down Under increase despite strict gun-control measures

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Jon Dougherty
© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com

Law enforcement and anti-crime activists regularly claim that the United States tops the charts in most crime-rate categories, but a new international study says that America's former master -- Great Britain -- has much higher levels of crime.

The International Crime Victims Survey, conducted by Leiden University in Holland, found that England and Wales ranked second overall in violent crime among industrialized nations.

Twenty-six percent of English citizens -- roughly one-quarter of the population -- have been victimized by violent crime. Australia led the list with more than 30 percent of its population victimized.

The United States didn't even make the "top 10" list of industrialized nations whose citizens were victimized by crime.

Jack Straw, the British home secretary, admitted that "levels of victimization are higher than in most comparable countries for most categories of crime."

Highlights of the study indicated that:


The percentage of the population that suffered "contact crime" in England and Wales was 3.6 percent, compared with 1.9 percent in the United States and 0.4 percent in Japan.

Burglary rates in England and Wales were also among the highest recorded. Australia (3.9 percent) and Denmark (3.1 per cent) had higher rates of burglary with entry than England and Wales (2.8 percent). In the U.S., the rate was 2.6 percent, according to 1995 figures;

"After Australia and England and Wales, the highest prevalence of crime was in Holland (25 percent), Sweden (25 percent) and Canada (24 percent). The United States, despite its high murder rate, was among the middle ranking countries with a 21 percent victimization rate," the London Telegraph said.

England and Wales also led in automobile thefts. More than 2.5 percent of the population had been victimized by car theft, followed by 2.1 percent in Australia and 1.9 percent in France. Again, the U.S. was not listed among the "top 10" nations.

The study found that Australia led in burglary rates, with nearly 4 percent of the population having been victimized by a burglary. Denmark was second with 3.1 percent; the U.S. was listed eighth at about 1.8 percent.
Interestingly, the study found that one of the lowest victimization rates -- just 15 percent overall -- occurred in Northern Ireland, home of the Irish Republican Army and scene of years of terrorist violence.

Analysts in the U.S. were quick to point out that all of the other industrialized nations included in the survey had stringent gun-control laws, but were overall much more violent than the U.S.

Indeed, information on Handgun Control's Center to Prevent Handgun Violence website actually praises Australia and attempts to portray Australia as a much safer country following strict gun-control measures passed by lawmakers in 1996.

"The next time a credulous friend or acquaintance tells you that Australia actually suffered more crime when they got tougher on guns ... offer him a Foster's, and tell him the facts," the CPHV site says.

"In 1998, the rate at which firearms were used in murder, attempted murder, assault, sexual assault and armed robbery went down. In that year, the last for which statistics are available, the number of murders involving a firearm declined to its lowest point in four years," says CPHV.

However, the International Crime Victims Survey notes that overall crime victimization Down Under rose from 27.8 percent of the population in 1988, to 28.6 percent in 1991 to over 30 percent in 1999.

Advocates of less gun control in the U