Same Sex Marriage

***Zardon*** · Oct 17, 2003, 08:50 AM

always shades of grey never black and white.

Judas · Oct 17, 2003, 08:58 AM

lol.... no one could have put it better.....

i'm as dead center grey as you can get.....

digerati · Oct 17, 2003, 07:30 PM

I'm glad this thread went nice and non violent. I remember back when SH4President was here....geez that was frustrating..

~~Luck~~ · Oct 17, 2003, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ^_^
I'm glad this thread went nice and non violent. I remember back when SH4President was here....geez that was frustrating..

Who was that? And why isn't he here anymore?

digerati · Oct 17, 2003, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Luck
Who was that? And why isn't he here anymore?

Imagine talking to one of those trained Arab bombers who "knows" the US is evil and mean no matter what. And give him the right to post it how he's right, that's SH4President lol

Joschaf · Oct 17, 2003, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fallang_jeff
same sex marriages or actually social contracts in my opinion with some legal advantages that are useful in determining property rights, etc..
marriage is a union of male and female, whether it is recognized by the church or any other religion, it in my opinion has a purpose beyond achieving legal advantages...and it has liabilities as well.
My mother took care of a young gay man and his lovers for years as they all died of aids, they flew the rainbow flag and demonstrated for the rights of homosexuals. My mother...a good christian rationalized that they deserve the same mercy and grace from god, though they be sinners. God hates no one she said, and she never preached to them as they withered away..
even though she is deeply entrenched in her faith, she always took pity upon them but never condoned their lifestyle, that seemed troubled and fraught with medical problems and concerns.
on the matter of gay marriages, she is is not troubled whether they have a contract or not, if two people choose to live together and support each other emotionally and physically she could care less, and so do I.

This sounds like you're saying that homosexuality has medical problems heterosexuality doesn't have? There isn't a disease out there that ONLY homosexuals get.. i'm sorry, but it's not true.. any disease a homosexual can get, a heterosexual can get... It just so happened your mother cared for homosexuals with AIDS, or whatever they had... that doesn't mean that just because they're gay they got AIDS.. they'd have just as much chance getting AIDS fucking a girl, as a guy

Falstaff · Oct 17, 2003, 11:29 PM

no stab at medical illness or the demographics by sexual orientation. Illustrating a point, the stigma or homophobia if you will, in my opinion will ever be erased or the characteristic american hypocracy towards homosexuality or be diminished by efforts to reinforce public opinion towards the legalization of same sex marriage. I am saying that a woman from an intolerant generation accepted the fact that it existed and rationalized it with her faith. I served in the Navy for twenty years and believe me, I saw the double standard firmly in place to weed out those who embraced an alternative lifestyle from those who hid in the closets and maintenance lockers.
I never intended to portray homosexuals as diseased ridden at all, just telling my experience based on my christian views and the those of my mother...interestingly enough..do you know the statistics?

evergreen · Oct 20, 2003, 03:11 PM

Sin is sin, condoning it by allowing same-sex marriage is wrong. Homosexual adoption is wrong - kids need good examples in their lives- and no they don't always get that from heterosexual parents, but having homo's for parents would distort their morals.
My 2 cents.

Judas · Oct 20, 2003, 06:13 PM

....So your directly relating to faith..... Now not considering that... your saying in no way...could homosexual parrents be able to raise a family..... let alone kids.... This i know for a fact isn't true..... The morals are in some cases, more intact then anyone elses....

Judas · Oct 20, 2003, 06:17 PM

What i didn't mention is how far would such a person go, being against it. Would they vote against it..... would they consider them 3rd class.... what.... if a vote was on the horizon... before even paying attention to anything.. would the answer already be no....... Some people have said, "i would say no, but it's up to them really, no my life"..... would those vote no? would it be wiser to not vote at all?

Falstaff · Oct 21, 2003, 06:34 PM

I dont think that homosexual parents represent a postiive lifestyle

Judas · Oct 21, 2003, 07:17 PM

........ they could..... non homosexual parents don't represent a positive lifestyle sometimes either...

digerati · Oct 22, 2003, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Judas
........ they could..... non homosexual parents don't represent a positive lifestyle sometimes either...

I definitely agree with Judas on this one. If I had followed my parents example or lifestyle I'd be somewhere else right now. And not somewhere good.

ToshiroOC · Oct 22, 2003, 07:45 PM

If they can have a relationship legally, I see no reason to keep them from enjoying the same legal protections as any other citizen of the united states in a heterosexual relationship. Whose place is it to judge them? I would say that we cannot and should not ban gay relationships (and indeed an inalienable right from the US consitution is the "pursuit of happiness", something I could consider this a part of), and if gay relationships are allowed, then why deny them simple legal rights such as next-of-kin being their same-sex partner and so forth within that legal relationship?

Judas · Oct 22, 2003, 08:41 PM

exactly toshiroOC!

Rayder · Oct 23, 2003, 01:17 AM

Two sayings come instantly to mind:

1) It's not nice to fool mother-nature.
AND
2) God said Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve......nor Alice and Eve.

I also don't think it's right for a gay couple to be able to adopt a kid. That just teaches the kid to grow up to be gay.

I'll tell ya, if a woman can't do it for me, then some hairy guy certainly isn't going to.

ToshiroOC · Oct 23, 2003, 02:25 AM

Ask yourself this: Do you think someone in your family could convince you to be gay? I would expect most people would answer "no", so why worry so much about children being raised by gay parents? Homosexuality is something one is born with, to the best of my knowledge, not something one can be indoctrinated with.

Driver 7 · Oct 23, 2003, 03:04 AM

This thread needs a little more Canadian Content.

Driver 7 · Oct 23, 2003, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rayder
Two sayings come instantly to mind:

1) It's not nice to fool mother-nature.
AND
2) God said Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve......nor Alice and Eve.

I also don't think it's right for a gay couple to be able to adopt a kid. That just teaches the kid to grow up to be gay.

I'll tell ya, if a woman can't do it for me, then some hairy guy certainly isn't going to.

It is not a choice. I read a book based on a true storey. A couple who had twins opted to get there newborn boy's circumsized. Then the procedure was relatively new. On the second child the doc messed up large and sniped the whole damn thing off. The solution for the mistake that everyone agreed on was to give the boy a sex change. It was done and that baby born boy was changed to a girl. To make a long story short. When she got older she ended up gay. She liked girls. Even though she was raised as a girl almost from birth and had no Idea she was once male.
I am not a great story teller but that story proves that one is born a certain way. I believe that. Who would choose to not be accepted.

MSX · Oct 23, 2003, 03:44 AM

I've been purposely avoiding this thread as I'd hope you'd all come to a reasonable conclusion. Though is seems as if there's little sub conversations (which come up with some good stuff) come to one with the odd Bla bla bla (I didn’t read the previous posts so I can't grow as a human being my opinion is shit fed to me which I repeat because I'm a little prepubescent clone.

) *cough*

It's defiantly a gray area. What if you’re bisexual? What if one of the parents defiantly acts overly like the opposite sex(even dresses and acts just like)? What if what if? Plenty of room for gray.

Should same sex marriages occur? As a legal union in front of a justice of the peace. Yes. In fact I'm to the point where everyone should be treated completely equal. (Not to quote Jefferson as he was a racist. He stated something was inherently inferior about black people. Look it up.) The reason why minorities get 'special rights' is because they get treated badly by the majority. So they look to the government for special treatment which just pisses off the majority more and gives them more reasons to HATE. Equalize it. It starts with you.

Should it be forced in on anyone’s religion? No, because that’s interfering on their rights to practice their faith. Who wants to be part of their stupid club anyway? If you do follow their rules and stop whining about it.

From a biological perspective? Huh? Its not so 2+2=4. Not that I could convince anyone otherwise... and nor would I really care too. Weather it be indoctrination, peer pressure, or something you've rationalized on your own it has no real bearing. You can’t stop people from being gay. If your dumb enough to believe all were here to do is reproduce we might as well have our wonderful brains replaced with a little red bulb that tells us to reproduce, constantly... Just like an amoeba. If you haven't figured it out yet there is no great reason were here, so just try to have a little fun. The human species does not have some grand destiny. We are all born to die what you do in the meantime is completely up to you.

It being gross is also out of the question. Have you seen your own REPRODUCTIVE ORGANS? Look at those things. My gawd their ugly. Why do you have an issue with who puts what where? I think tubgirl is disgusting but I have no right to tell her its wrong… even if it does make me want to vomit. I don't have to be looking.

If we go by statistics for anything we might as well look at this. I'm a white male between the ages of 16 to 25. Oh you mean I have the highest chance to become a PSYCO KILLER?!?!?! Jeez I should run around killing all the stupid close-minded people I meet every single day. No I don't... because its just a statistic... numbers to put to a stereotype. Hmm, how many of you have been caught lying for a census? Statistics as stereotypes are often wrong.

As final... I'm pissed. These type of topics annoy me because I spent most of my youth trying to figure the human race. You know what I still don't have any concrete answers, but as far as I'm concerned I'm right and your wrong. My opinions like yours are meaningless. Though mine is at the very least MINE. How many of you can say that you came to your opinion on your very own merit? Another gray area there.

If you feel like debating. Ok go for it, but if your not going to listen to me I'm sure as hell not going to listen to you. So what’s the frigging point? Lets just yell at brick walls. It would be just as constructive. You did not come to some sort of grand divine epiphany on what you believe is right and will always be right (even if that's what you believe) and neither did I. If you change my thoughts on these subjects is irrelevant. So have at it.

Hats off to the tenticle beast, Escariot, Z, badger boy and the fox.

Judas · Oct 23, 2003, 09:21 AM

....wow...... i fellow figurer........MSX..... i right in your area.....(an no..not like that...

)

BONEHEAD · Oct 23, 2003, 09:36 AM

Here is a clip off a local tv site here on something that we just had there is NO way I could ever be w/ a man I like the bush wa to much

The Lesbian, Gay Rights Lobby of Texas hosted a town hall meeting Wednesday night on the University of Texas campus.

The discussion focused on what many of us take for granted.

For most of us marriage is a given. As we get older and we meet someone special, most of the time we end of marrying that person.

For gays and lesbians, marriage is more like a privilege, they don't have right now.

"When the founders got here they didn't come here to found a Christian nation," Minister Jim Rigby said.

Rigby thinks government has no right to tell gays and lesbians they can't participate in marriage.

"The founders of the country said that every person, every human being has an inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness," Rigby said.

That pursuit became more like a never ending race in May. That's when U.S. Representative Marilyn Musgrave proposed the federal marriage amendment. The bill describes marriage as only a union between man and woman and wants the Constitution to reflect that.

"It makes me feel like I don't want to pay taxes in a country where I'm not represented," Austinite Anita Tschurr said.

Anita Tschurr and Sarah Kyle have been lesbian partners for a year. They believe the right of marriage should be granted to all who are human.

"We would at this point like to have all of the legal benefits offered to anyone who chooses to be in a legal arrangement in a marriage," Tschurr said.

Like hospital visitation rights and inheritance which are two privileges that come with marriage.

"With heterosexual marriage, they're automatically afforded privileges that gay people are not afforded. So it's not about special rights it's about equal treatment," Kyle said.

Representative Musgrave calls marriage a sacred institution founded on religion. She says the presence of one man and one woman is the best for children.

The Lesbian, Gay Rights Lobby of Texas plans to hold many more town hall meetings to spread awareness on this issue.

Right now 37 states including Texas have adopted the defense of marriage act, which prohibits same sex marriages

Judas · Oct 23, 2003, 09:45 AM

....damn....i hate faith...... it ends up causeing war in the end.......

digerati · Oct 26, 2003, 12:16 AM

I think for some it's natural. For some it's a choice. Kind of like the music we like, some people like music because it's pleasing to them. Others like it because their friends or lovers like it. One of my ex's was like that. Her favorite band kept changing depending on her boyfriends favorite band.

I say this because I had a moment. Where I seriously thought if I could be