Judas

thought this was interesting how quickly the whole atmosphere changed..



trust?

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jandarsun8

hmm all I see is a large white square.... joke maybe?

Oh wait... polar bears in a snow storm!

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Judas

fixed

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OldBuzzard

Just another

So, now BIDEN is a part of the "massive coverup"?

What happened to the eeevvviiillll BBBOOOOOOOOOOOSH, and Darth Rove?

God, sometimes I really wish that when people get blind sided by kooks like this, that they would do a "Buzz Aldren" on their poor deluded asses.

Buzz giving one of the kooks the kind or "answer" that they deserve :

YouTube - Buzz Aldrin punch

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When looking for a reason as to why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY

Judas

wait.. what? they never suggested?.... can't anyone ask a question anymore and get a straight answer without running off?

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OldBuzzard

OK, here's a question for YOU....

Do you still beat your wife and kick puppy dogs? And, if not, when did you stop doing so?

Just like my questionabive, there are questions that are so outlandish that they don't deserve an anaswer.

You DO know that according to the 'scientist' that it would have taken something more than 10 TONS, and possibly as much as 100 TONS of this ultas-super-extra-special "explosive' to have brought down the towers don't you?

Somewhere between 10 and 100 TONS!!?!? Just how the **** were 'they' supposed to have gotten that much of ANYTHING into those buildings with out SOMEONE noticeing? For crying out loud, RAY CHARLES could have seen that!

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When looking for a reason as to why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY

Judas

Scientist... lol...

Those same scientist still think that the airplanes provided that.... you think they some planes hitting that building did it?

How much of a crazy nut do you have to be to obliviously even suggest that.

10 tons.. my ass, considering i've seen what little amount of thermite is required to reduce a good amount of steal into a puddle of molten metal.

First off it's been clarified that explosive did occur, BEFORE and AFTER the planes hit... This is varified several times through countless witnesses, most of them survivors of the very ordeal, people having their face blown off in the basement before the impact of a plane is a clear sign that something is pretty ed up.

2ndly, 10 tons is exorbant for the nececcities i would think, i don't think even a typical demolition crew would use that amount.. and what the hell are they using? Just find some very credible demo experts explain what would be needed, how it could be done, and what could be done with the availability of thermite. 100 tons my ass. Although it's not at all impossible to be brought in over a long period of time.


People walk into places all the time without anyone noticing anything at all, even with security and police petrolling... is it really that hard for anyone to wrap their brain around.

I mean it's pretty interesting that more often then not now, i can walk into just about anywhere recently and bring up this very subject and the general concensus is that they KNOW that the planes could haven't possibly brought them down and that other forces were at work.

Any structural engineer will clearly point out that it's just impossible...

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OldBuzzard

The 10-100 ton figure comes from the 'scientist' that authored that friggin 'report'. Here is an interview of him on Danish TV with English sub titles:
YouTube - A danish scientist Niels Harrit, on nano-thermite in the WTC dust ( english subtitles )

You know, PBS did a very good program on how and why the towers fell. They even interviewed the GUY THAT DESIGNED THEM. You need to find it and watch it. Look at the designer's eye when he's talking. The whgole thing haunts him to this day. He said that he knew very soon after the planes hit that the towers were doomed. They just weren't designed to stand the PROLONGED fire AFTER the impact that weakened the trusses. The man that designed them makes that claim. I think I'll believe the guy that built them rather than some nut that most likely hasn't even set foot in the US, let alone visited the site.

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When looking for a reason as to why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY

Judas

i've also seen video of the same interview of which they cut out some of it or even out of context quoted him..

the very same person that stated that the buildings were built to withstand even from a such planes.

So really all we have here is contradictions, misinformation mixed with disproving self evidence.

The fact remains that the commisioned report is full of holes, there neglection of even mentioning the 7th tower is of concern as well. There lack of mentioning majority of the witnesses testimony as well as the countless improbable circumstances that had to be met all within a matter of a few hours.

IF the towers fell like they did, everyone would have a better chance of survival in a bloody skyscrapper built of timber then reinforced, steel, fireproofed structures.

Not to mention the fact of the sheer amount of secrecy revolving around this whole ordeal, the fact that the very suspects claimed to be the hijackers, of which some have come forward and asked (wtf) they are doing on the fbi list...

It all screams "this makes no sense" with what is deemed "the official report" and no one, when presented with all that information has been able to repeat the words "the official story fits"

Call a circle a square all you want, but the sucker doesn't fit.

And while the various conspiracy theories/facts are revolving around this all, some of there stated suggested storylines fit far better, are more plausible then the "official" story.

And your claim that some of these people making the claims where never there, never had anything to do with the building and so forth is absurd.. as countless witnesses, demolition, etc and sorth forth from all over the world, and from the very new york, some of which were right there to see it all go down or even have had it impact them directly, make valid points.

BTW, it should also be mentioned that still to this day, no steel structured building, EVEN one without fireproofing for even hotter fires raging for longer hours and more widespread has yet to come down.

So yet again, i ask the question, and so far they haven't stated for a fact what has occured, How does a building come crumbling to the ground without enough damage or heat to do so? And why were there explosions at the base of the building before and after the impacts at the top of the towers.

Honestly, i don't think these are absurd questions to ask....

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OldBuzzard

What the conspiracy people don't understand, or willfully ignore, is that it was a COMBINATION of the structural damage from the crash and unncontrolled fire afterwards that caused the collapse. Either one by itself was not enough to cause it. They did indeed survive the crash. They collapsed only after an uncontrolled fire (due to the crash damage) further weakened the structure.

Without the fire, they would have survived. With out the crash, the fire would have been controlled. In either case the buildings would have survived. The combination, was lethal.

Building 7, which also sufferend structural damage (from the collapse of WTC 1) collapsed after 6 hours of uncontrolled fire. Once again, something not designed for.

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When looking for a reason as to why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY

Judas

The claim of Combination of structural and fire doesn't work, it can't work... there wasn't enough of a fire to result in the twin towers falling.. the fire was basically non excistant as there is clear evidence of it being mildly hot, and the fireproofing basically doing the job that was intended. There is further evidence of this being the case as Survivors of the very floors that were impacted where seen standing near the edges of these floors HURT.. but more then just alive.

I haven't a clue where your getting your information from... but are you completely "willfully" ignoring the fact that structures even with weekened structural damage after more then 24 hours of Hotter, longer lasting, intense infurnos still have not fallen even without fireproofing?

Wait didn't i just mention that above?

Like i said, who's really willfully ignoreing the facts of the matter? I Still ask the genuine and realistic questions.

You still have yet to explain the explosions BEFORE the impact.... still willfully ignoring some facts?

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OldBuzzard

Whatever 'floats your boat'...

I'm betting that if GOD spoke and said that it wasn't a conspiricy that there would STILL be people that wouldn't believe it.

People believe in these whacked out theories because they WANT to, and no evidence to the contrary will ever change their minds.

For the REAL truth about 9/11:
Sep 11 - "Why the Towers Fell" - Nova PBS

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When looking for a reason as to why things go wrong, never rule out sheer STUPIDITY

Judas

God had as much to do/say with it as a hair on my left buttcheek did...

That has as much Truth to it as the most wacked out conspiracy theories... it in itself is a conspiracy theory.. and until that is realized... your floating your own boat

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Tinkerhell

You are always good for a laugh Judas.

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Stupidity should be painful if not terminal.
Darwin for Sainthood!!

OmegaRED

I'm always up for a good conspiracy theory or two but when it comes to WTC it takes a special kind of stupid to witness two planes fly into buildings and then say there were bombs in the buildings.

Was there bombs in the White House and Pentagon too? Why stop at just the towers

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Judas

they didn't... obviously with the lack of evidence to support that a plane even hit the pentagon....

i find it quite amusing as well to stew over the fantasy that things had occured as they "say" they did.

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procupine14

The issue I have with the whole story is this. How do you have an 'uncontrolled fire' in a building made of all concrete and steel? Granted there were perhaps 4 floors or so with fires from jet fuel I get that whole thing. However, have you seen how big those steel supports in buildings that size are? Jet fuel just can't burn hot enough to melt steel in an open environment at least from what I've seen. I know the conspiracy theorists are quite over the top but really a little plane like that into a tower that big that was supposed to be designed to tollerate even a bigger plane hitting it without issue is a problem for me. I'm not even going to get into the Pentagon because all I have to say about that is show me a piece of titanium from the RollsRoyce engines from the plane that hit it and I will believe you. Don't give me that business of "it was completely vaporized" because titanium isn't exactly easy to vaporize. Either way on the subject I really don't care and one way or another its our (the US) fault for provoking this one way or another by either the way we do business with foreign countries or by the way we operate.

Basically, none of it matters to me anymore because the way our foreign policy works and us stepping on peoples' toes we were going to piss off someone at some point.

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Judas

initally, majority of the fuel that would have been in those planes emediately exploded and burnt OUTSIDE the towers. this leaves little to no fuel inside the buildings to do anything at all, Considering the fact that the empire state building wasn't designed to take a hit from planes and have survived, they indeed built the towers to.

Where did the fuel come from, how did sub 50*C sustained temperatures destroy the fireproofing and melt the steel, weaken it to the point of failure, and if the suggest temperatures had been reached, how in the hell did people survive for several minutes without burning in those key areas?

I'd still like to know how people have their face blown off in the basements.

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procupine14

I completely agree there Judas. There is an interesting question posed when there are people in the basement that pieces of walls hit them in the face and people got limbs blown off etc. Especially down in the sub basement where the maintenance people were. I highly doubt they are related to a plane crashing into the top 1/3 of the building.

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Judas

Yeah considering they have as much of a connection as me shooting a can off a fence post and someone claiming it had something to do with their goat dieing in africa

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procupine14

lol good description

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Kazeko

Aristotle once said, regarding a device called the Antikythera Mechanism: "... how easy it is for the ignorant to believe that all has become confusion and doom."

Two things, on this thread.

1. Let the conspiracy theorists have their falling sky, and search for objective truth in the world of internet hyperbole. Why? Because SOMEONE might find something good. Generally, you're not going to find it on a random computer tech forum on the internet. But... let them be, and hopefully they'll come up with something good.

The second part, is that many conspiracy theorists have trouble accepting tragedy as that. We live in very affluent societies, even those of us overseas, in many parts of Europe and Asia. Tragedy is something that we've managed to remove from daily life. The mind has trouble coping with so much positive that it begins to look for negative.
Often times, it's done by creating Villains. Those who maintain a significant presence in our daily life get thrown on the rack first - Big Business and Government.

2. The most important point of that video was overlooked.

Anyone hear the interviewer ask about the "Rule of Law?" Anyone know what that is, and how incredibly important it is to the entire world right now?

Rule of law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

9-11, at this point, is immaterial beyond the sake of prosecution. It happened, move on.


Freud once explained the psychological reason for Fear, as a lack of knowledge. He did so, more on religious terms, indicating that things we did not know, we substituted with Religion. He called it the Deprivation Theory. His premise was simple - We become afraid, when we can't explain something, and so, seek to fill the void.

Most conspiracy theorists, are doing precisely that - They fear Arbitrary Power, and since they don't understand how the Government works in most cases, they seek to fit a story that makes sense and explains their fear.

The answer, is the Rule of Law.

Judas

by which meaning and from who's point of view.... rule of law presents a conundrum and also presents the person reading and view it with a specific set of rules or guidelines that makes the others seem incorrect...

This however isn't preventable.

Unfortuneately, or perhaps fortuneately i'm not easily catagorised into either, and while something as (depending whom you are talking to) meaningless, tragic or not, or however you wish to view it, such as the 911 case itself and the beyond unacceptable circumstances and bizarre occurances that took place, the questions being raised are still valid, and while people will claim conspiracy, and no doubt there are alot of conspiracy theorists the propose answers that result in that assersion, the fact remains that there are people that still raise the question with no internet in it being conspiracy or not, they simply would like to know the truth and be presented with credible, realistic, demonstrated, clean cut evidence to support anyones claim. So far there are so many loose ends, there isn't even a mended beginning.

Claiming that it's said and done with is rather absurd as well, considering that the frequency of repeating past mistakes/incidents is due to simply ignoring or forgetting or completely refusing to learn from them. And untill you are able to clearly figure out precisely what had occured, it can be repeated over and over again due to "perseived blissfull" ignorance.

Also, most people that understand how the government works, also produces generally the same type of reaction as well. Yet people tend to be unware of these cases, or simply pool them in with the theorists making them seem non-credible.

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Vikingod

Judas, be honest... did you forget to take your meds today?

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stewox

I'll have to agree with Judas,

If the vice president wouldn't know about it , he would react differently. The reaction of all others would be different, this suggest all security staff probably know about it. Or just don't care and do the sucked job. The security woman said in the end "there are security reasons you can't go.... we need to get everyone back ... shows over get back"
If there wouldn't be any of these topic in the event, the security probably wouldn't be so alert, but as soon as the 911 got brought up, tension just went skyrocket inside those security men, and they always start talking weird with the security. This could actually mean, a corrupted group, one appearing in public as politician, others dressed like security, etc...

And that's a mere glimpse of the explanation to the video and the whole background , but I will be unsuccessful in explaining to wide forum people who may not be familiar and can not cope with processing of the hot info into a reasonable conclusion,explanation and opinion, flames ridiculous oppositions can start, as the example in post above shows you.

OmegaRED

In other words, if you haven't drank the conspiracy Kool-aid it will all sound like bullshit.

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[hobo]eclipse

no omega the troubles revolve around not being able to stop drinking the cool aid

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Judas

lol, i find it extremely naive to think that anyone could consider that nothing corrupt in any manner is happening in the government bodies....

bliss.... i couldn't live in that state....

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