House votes down massive financial bailout

Iria

The House of Representatives rejected a $700 billion bailout today following extended debate where many members, including some who brokered the deal with it, was highly unpopular.

The preliminary vote was 185-197.
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Source: MSNBC

OmegaRED

It's probably for the best.

temeteus82

Yes it is. Well at least my point of view

OmegaRED

Truthfully, I know very little about financial markets (don't really care either) but it seems to me what would be gained in a bailout would be outweighed by what would be lost.

The market would gain some stability immediately after the bailout and investor confidence would rise but I bet it would be for a very short time. Say what you want about Wall Street but there's only a certain amount of bullshit it can swallow and I think the bailout would make things worse.

No one wants a recession or depression or any of the bad shit that might be around the corner if this turns into a major economic disaster but throwing money at it isn't going to solve this and even if it could surely it would take weeks or months of planning to devise a plan to make it work...not hours or days.

IMO, let what ever is going to happen, happen. I'm glad the House didn't betray America's capitalist ideals by passing this though I suspect they might if it's retooled in the future.

Judas

The way it would work is that the stability gained would only prolong the oventual fall.... making it into an even disasterous crash.


But the real concern is the fact that everyone was voting not on the 700bil, but several pages of other things they weren't allowed to even review... the result was that they were preasured into voting for a helping package that could have potentially been voting in other more horrible amendments or major things that would have been much worse then not voting for it at all.

I'm somewhat happy for the result.

Either way..

Shit is hitting the fan, and they'll likely be suckered into oventually passing a bailout of some kind at which point... as another market analyst put it.... Toilet paper will be more valueable then the dollar bills being printed. The paper that the dollars are being printed on is worth more.....

IF you have $1 and you want to buy something for $1.... your dandy. But the way the system is working and actually it's not working as the evidence is mounting as things are tumbling ...... people are taking that $1 dollar and trying to buy several $1 items from multiple people at the same time.."look see, i've got this $1 here, tell you what, i'll pay you this $1 over time", it's repeated to everyone, well by the time people have gotten done, they've not realized that there $1 has been slit down and chopped up so many times, that they've barried themselves. the result, the people that "sold" or more along the lines of "loaned" the items or money out......are calling the loans on them now.... asking for that $1... you can only give one person.... that $1.. what happens to the people that also are expecting that $1? there for lack of a better word, fucked and so is the person that offered it orginally.

Imaginary money, it's worse then trying to pay with monopoly money... Your better off grabbing a permenant market and writing "$1000" on each individual tissue (kleenex) of an entire box and then trying to pay someone with it.

CDsDontBurn

economic recession is supposed to cause deflation. had this passed, it would have cuased inflation. it's a good thing, IMO, that this didn't pass. banks should go bust because of poor lending habits.

[hobo]eclipse

don't be hasty cd's more legislation is coming, both the stooges backed a bill, petro dribbles in the south, and the brigades start homeland tours

temeteus82

I see that you don't have no idea how big issue this is. I mean there are a lot people that will be homeless when the banks go bust and their homes will be sold. The un-employment rate will go up fast and people gets angry to the politicians because they didn't bail out the banks. And some ones will be paying the bill for the banks that goes bust and usually they are the customers that does that. I do hope that you don't have your savings on a bank that is going down.

[hobo]eclipse

sry teme but yer wrong on that one cd's made a valid point





Senate May Try to Revive Bank-Rescue Bill as Early as Tomorrow

CDsDontBurn

not true. take Indi-Mac Bank (a smaller bank in comparison to BofA, Wells Fargo, Washington Mutual, etc.) for example, this is one of the failing banks and all current accounts are in a type of "stale-mate" per say (idk the exact term). but what's going on with this particular bank, is that people who have loans with this bank, is that they are not paying back their loans because the bank's financial system is in current turmoil. Indi-Mac Bank would be a bank that would benefit from this "bail out" bill that was denied. So, until this gets resolved, more than likely by a buy-out from another bank or this "bail-out" bill passed, banks like Indi-Mac Bank will continue to have such suspended accounts until their internal issues are resolved.

Just because banks don't get this "bail-out" passed, that doesn't mean that people will be losing jobs....unless you're a banker/real estate agent.

I'm glad that this wasn't passed because that would just mean that the national deficit would go up considerably, litterally overnight. I think that the US national deficit is already high enough as it is. something like this would just make it worse, which is something that we're paying for already with taxes already.

temeteus82

Perhaps. But the sub prime crisis isn't over at all more banks may be busted if that new plan don't get passed. And as I said the customers are the ones that will end up paying the bill. Now since US has a large population if all would pay one dollar for the save many peoples lives would that be good? I mean peoples life's will be ruined if their savings will be gone because of this crisis...

temeteus82

Yeah and the other banks would not give more loans to business and there fore they would have to cut their work force ... You see the chain reaction?

CDsDontBurn

Yes I do, The official economic term for what you are describing is known as "The Trickle Down Effect." Whatever affect the top will "trickle down" to cause effects on consumers.

IMO, the best way to stimulate the economy is from the bottom up, a "Trickle Up Effect" i'd like to call it, not from the top down. Bush's stimulus bill that he gave out earlier this year was not enough to properly stimulate the economy earlier this year IMO. That was the right idea, but it was too little too late.

[hobo]eclipse

yes with out the legislation more jobs would be lost but inflation will come under control and market will right itself

with the bill it will be a slow steady progression on same path we have been

cds the stimulas needed is the rebirth of a sound currency, no quick fixes or turn arounds

Judas

you can hand the banks a wack of cash without them running out of it instantly.. and it's already full known that 700 bil isn't even close to being enough to cover the bad loans and debt out there.... all 700 bil to the banks will do is inflate things, essentially making the without a doubt airplane that is crashing, crash harder killing millions more then it would have previously, and extending the crashes duration.

The stimulus package for a "trickle up effect" is also useless, you still making money out of this air, you can't do that, the people still can only spend it once, problem is likely to not disappear as people will likely spend it on more useless crap rather then pay of thier loans with it... and even then, if they did pay off thier loans, the banks are still royally screwed.


People are NOT comprehending the seriousness of this all. ATM the banks are sitting in stagnation for everyone, they aren't really looking at providing anymore loans, but they haven't locked thier doors either exactly. But it's coming, and it all depends on if you want to postpone it AKA flating the dollar more with bailout resulting in a even Bigger crash that last longer with more people homeless and screwed OR bite the damn bullet now and let the stock market fly apart resulting in the crash happening sooner and less of a country falling apart.

What is scary as all hell is the FACT that the US OWES major countries like japan and china and countless others basically everything the US has right now, If china alone called the loans of the US and the US can't pay (obviously because for every dollar they print up, makes the dollar that much more useless not increasing thier value at all), what do you think China could do? "Hi, oh you can't pay, well i'll just take this".... and it can be full scale, frankly china could potentially just walk right into the country a few good months after it's nation wide crashed. What would stop it? Starving homeless people going to stop an army? Yeah maybe.... lol.


The bubble everyone has been living in has popped, the only thing the government can do is either let it continue to pop at the rate it's going and get it over with quicker, or postpone/slow it down only to increase the effects of the "bad things to happen" more.

Has anyone even looked at what happened in 1929? The real facts of the matter pertaining to what happened when it went bust? Does anyone have a clue what those figures look like compared to today? 1929 was a frigen kidy crash followed by a tamptrum attack compared to what is likely 99% going to occur here, big freaking crash. The figures are so incredibly sour major investors, people that run the stock market themselves are litterly shitty brick just watching the meer 777 dow drop and 800 tsx drop.... which is marginal percentage, what happens when it drops 15%.... suicides likely, what happens when it hit 60% or worse.... I beleive if the stock market drops over 25% the effects are already worse then 1929..... 50% would be exponetially worse for every percent more that is drops... if it full out crashes down to 0%.... the US and likely canada are all fucked, and the effects will ripple around the world.

CDsDontBurn

Germany, Argentina, Russia, Ukraine, China, Brazil, Austria are all good examples of hyper inflation. The US is currently on the road for this to happen if nothing proactive is done.

When hyper inflation occurs and debts are owed to other countries that can't be paid, is not the same as when you owe the bank money on a loan.

When a country lends money to another country, and the lendee country cannot repay those loans, it's not like the lending country can just go in and take over the lendee country. If you borrow money from a bank to buy a car and you cannot repay the loan, the bank will go in and take your car.

Judas

actually, they can...... but more choose not to do so as it tends to stirr shit up far to much..... aka invasion...

CDsDontBurn

invasion is primary way to take over countries and/or territories if things cannot be overtaken diplomatically. the US is established enough right now, that this won't be happening....at least any time soon (history repeats itself, and one day the US will fall).

but, that's a whole different topic and thread, so lets stay on topic please and don't make this thread go OT.