Mr cairo

This really wasnt/isnt meant to be personal i just dont agree with the sentiment and i dont agree with some of what you have said in this thread but i have agreed with other things you said in other post's and im sure i have never had an issue with other things you posted to date

like i said at the end of my last post i felt that it was coming across that i was having a go at you personally and thats why i said i was going to stop debating/discussing it we do have 2 very different views but thats life

also its not that i dont like America there some stuff i like its just like the UK the politics and policies of both countries the last few years dont sit to well with me i find the UK is becoming a difficult place to live sometimes

as for my Avatar looking suspciously similiar to someone else that you have seen before i cant help that i am really looking forward to the Dark Knight that's why i use it , i do use the same one on several other forums as well namely the UOcUK forums and the SFX magazine forums but i can assure you i only have one username and profile here ( I am not some other member with 2 profiles ) and anywhere else (i am always Mr Cairo) as for the avatar before i used the Joker i had the guys from Shaun of the Dead

hope this hasnt coloured your opinion too much as there are probably other topics that i would agree with you on ... its just this isnt one of them

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homepage

CSI Wales thats what i would like to see , They would be measuring the trajectory of a kebab

Al_Vampyre

Jeff, normally I'm a huge respecter of your opinions, but this last section is not only bordering on jingoistic but is actually quite insulting...

I understand what the piece is getting at (faked or not is irrelevant) but please, every right thinking, freedom loving, compassionate person is by extension an American? I know that patriotism is important in America but claiming the freedom and compassion crown for yourselves is insulting...and I would imagine somewhat of a surprise to the indigenous peoples of the americas that were ridden rough shod over to get to where you are now!!

Falstaff

no, that isnt what I meant...
American
Irish
Scottish
Iraqi
etc...
what I am trying to say that it isnt the province of Americans, but it is my wish that America represents much more than bombs, invasions and certain death. So if you believe in the future of our children, the future of a free world without hangups like we suffer from now, then it really doesnt matter where you are from. I use America as an example, because I am proud of the ideals of the America that I love, but it is no different than the India, the Crete, the Norway in anyone elses heart and soul. I try to seperate how I feel about God, my family and my duty to myself and my country, as a citizen, but I think as a citizen of the world, I have a duty that transcends nationality, sorry if I wasnt clear on that point, I would have devoted more time to fleshing that out. I learned to be a patriotic American from of all people my Greek History Teacher in Crete where I went to school with kids from all over the world. I know the preamble of the constitution, the foundation of the country that we all know and I wonder why we are so distant from the ideals of Thomas Jefferson, and a few French philosophers that the first government of the United States was based on. Why have we become this monster that reacts to world events with sabre rattling and posturing. If you read what I wrote about launching missles against innocent women and children, or shooting down an airliner over the Persian Gulf, it is sobering to know that when you shoot a bullet, launch a missle or napalm a building you most proabably will take innocent human life along with the target.
We are all patriots and we are all warriors and we are rarely peace makers, but the greatest country in the world ( my country) approaches the cross roads in time where our path will be war after war after war, or we will cooperate with old enemies and work for peace, understanding and saving the very planet that we fight upon.
If it sounds crazy then consider this, the very reasons we engage in conflict, to preserve our way of life, our countries security or the personal safety of Americans and our friends, is the very thing that will destroy not only America, but the world in which know and love, unless we change.
So American, Russian, Chinese, South African or what ever, if we love our children and we are truly patriotic then why dont we work to preserve what is left of our rapidly shrinking world and create a new fabric that will not become unravelled, torn or ripped by conflict and become one nation, one earth or just one people that will save this world, that is what I am trying to say.
Every country has endured a war, endured a conflict or an event that changed its course or its path. 9/11 is just one of the those events that seems to force us back on the path of war, or vigilent peaceful cooexistence, etc. How many Americans still feel as patriotic as they did following the series of events that mobilized the military and sent our sons and daughters to war, how many times will we have something like this again as conflict becomes more asymetrical, more difficult, and the goals less tangible, less defined, and we slip further and further off the path of peace.
The message, like any other message that is supposed re-awaken patriotism and national pride finds us counting our dead, praying for the return of our children and asking our government why we are still "over there".
I am old enough to remember the Vietnam War and people that didnt come home from the war, children that grew up without their fathers. That was many generations ago and those lessons are almost forgotten, the only thing we have learned to do with any zeal is kill more people, faster and from a further distance away.
I am old enough to remember many wars, and have learned only one salient point, they never seem to end or find patriots to fight them.
when we kill an American, an Iraqi, a jew or a muslim for whatever reason, we taking way someones father, daughter, son or mother, we are killing our fellow man. Call me crazy, but why cant we just take a day off, or a week or even a month, just stop killing entirely for the sake of religion, politics, or ideals or even patriotism, cant we just take a long vacation from war and never come back.
When someone waves a flag, waves their arms and rallies us to march off to another nation for the sole purpose of toppling that regime, forcing a comprimise or projecting our power, we remember that our fellow man across the line that divides us is hoping for peace, hoping to go home again and hoping that they wont have to fight.
but I guess that will never happen in our lifetime.

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[hobo]eclipse

i see a writing asking for compassion, with maybe even a bit of forgivness in there. asking people to realize principles of certain unalienable rights bestowed by no mortal. it is not a new thing or unheard call that the worlds opinion of the United States of America are at a low point, but there is a dream still alive in America, a dream to right wrongs done in Americas name and that dream is taking hold in Colorado right now.

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Falstaff

I know poeple want me to post a certain way, say things a certain way or think a particuler way. The very post that I used to awaken feelings of resentment or patriatism for or agains America served only provoke feedback about me or America.
But I am not surprised really.
If all the responses had been pro American and we had four or five flag waving and stand up and hand over the heart testimonials it still would have served its purpose.
Whether anyone is for or against America is meaningless, its all about how we percieve ourselves in the world and how we fit in.
I learned to be an American from Europeans when I lived in Greece and Germany, and I saw the price of blind patriotism and reciprical acts of revenge not just by my home nation but by others as well. The idea of peace is not lost on me.
This world is not ready for peace, and maybe it wont be ever, so I keep my sword and shield handy and pray for a better world. Anyone that has children or grandchildren or has seen the world waste away must feel something when his or her fellow man is killed in wartime or peace time for the sake of politics or religion.
If I had actually shown an article from a pro fundamental islamic cleric or "freedom fighter" from Iraq or Iran or Syria or even Palastine, I wonder if that would have provoked the same remarks of bias for or against America. It isnt about borders anymore, its about our future.

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Al_Vampyre

Nope, I'm happy for you to post exactly what you want and think what you want because I respect your right to say whatever you believe.

I know it isn't what you meant, I was just pointing out that the author of that piece (whomever they may be) is a condescending asshole that thinks 'American' is the greatest compliment he can award...It's the danger of quoting someone else's work I'm afraid.

Falstaff

The author or authors are well known to me. In my life when I served in the military or conservative folks needed a bit of a prompt or a reason to gurd their proverbial loins, the rhetoric was always the same.
ALamo
Pearl Harbor
Dien Bien Fu
USS Stark
9/11
it meant that young men and women would have to learn to fight and kill again, and our country would go to war with the full intention of not just winning, but prosecuting a war like peace. History may have been written by the victor so many times in the past, written by poets and romantics, rarely by realists or honest poeple, and somehow the lessons are lost, and we forget the cost of war. Is the peace we strive for worth destroying nations, and cultures, peoples and innocent lives to perpetuate the Pax Americana.
It boggles the mind.
It also bears mentioning that faith and words and fear encourage men, women and even children to blow themselves up among the very people they are fighting for the independence to co-exist with, or for an even darker agenda, the destruction of whole nations or occupying regimes.
Words are amazing arent they.

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Al_Vampyre

And dangerous in the wrong hands

RSOblivion

Well on the topic of the writer, all he does with that patriotic dribble is cause more problems than it solves.

The very act of patriotism incites and instils hatred and discord against any who are not a part of the group you are patriotic about. Whether it be a country or hockey team it makes no difference. The nonsensical dislike which is encouraged by this type of patriotism is just pointless to try to continue. Problem is as pointed out already, what one guy thinks is a compliment another will take as an insult. At the moment to suggest that anyone is an American outside of America is likely to end in harsh words or a fight. I know in Australia that most here have had enough of them, though the administration keep trying to shove their second hand TV shows and bullsh*t free trade (contradiction in terms) agreement down our throats.

The danger behind words used in a patriotic way is that while it may garner supporters, it incites anger and hatred in between 2-10 more people than agree with it. It ends up a propaganda tool for those who wish to continue this perpetual and totally idiotic state of war around the globe, which in turn holds all of man back from being able to progress. I really wish sentiment like this could be seen for the damage it does through emotionally blind people rather than the feelings it elicits to those who cannot see the difference.

Kazeko

Hobo - What exactly is occuring in Colorado?

FuNsTeR

good health to you as well .... oh and nice Aberdeen Angus

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Take That Ivanovich




"They say when you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear satanic messages ..... but that's nothing, if you play it forward it will install Windows"