Vikingod

System Specs

This is the appropriate thread to debate all things religion.

Feel free to voice your opinions and post your facts. Only requirement is that it stays civil and there are no personal insults. There is no particular topic here, so long as it's about religion, its appropriate.

That said, it should be noted that if you are posting here, expect someone to feel the total opposite of you. So please refrain from reporting posts because someone doesn't subscribe to your beliefs. The thread will be monitored to ensure things stay cool.

Enjoy!

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OmegaRED

System Specs

Doesn't a forum section entitled "Political and Religious Debate" negate the need for a thread devoted to just that? Wouldn't this be the same as starting a "Flaming thread" in the Flaming Warzone?

While there's lots of religious stuff I'd like to debate, I personally prefer to start a topic for each one in order to keep it on topic for as long as possible.

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Vikingod

System Specs

This is an attempt to keep other threads from turning into off-topic slap fights. It should be used when someone just needs to vent about their religious views, or just wants a good fair argument about god/science, and keep the other threads on the topics they were initially started for.

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Mousey

System Specs

You want my honest opinion?
I doubt many of the people that read this opinion are going to like it but i'm afraid it's tough, and remember this is a Debate thread, not a Flame thread. As a result, i am giving my Opinion which involves taking a Dump on religion.

Basically, methinks that religion's negatives far outweigh the positives and it causes far more trouble than should be allowed. Religion is basically a fancy word for "Do as i say, not as i do". Apparently they are all about encompassing others and learning how to accept, So how come 9/10 religions don't accept homosexuality/lesbianism and other controversial topics like those i won't go into.
There's also extremism, it's used as the most basic and overly-whored cover you can possibly think of here. How many (Main-stream) religions can you think of that blatantly teach you to go out and Kill people because they believe differently to you? If i have a problem with someone, i'll call em a dick if they start and walk off, i won't start screaming that my religion told me to do it and go kill the guy and everybody that thinks remotely like him...

And if this post is getting too heavy, then moderators do what you will, but otherwise this is my opinion and if you don't like it why are you still here?

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Judas

System Specs

religion can burn in hell...



sorry.... no puns or anything ironic intended.....

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OmegaRED

System Specs

I've got a long list of gripes with religion but I suppose these are the first 3 that come to mind.

1) Nearly all religions claim to be the sole source of truth:

"We know how life began" and "We worship the one true God". So many religions claiming the same thing and often recycling the details (messiahs,apocalypses,afterlife). What about all those religions and Gods which have long died off? They had no more evidence of their truth than present religions yet people believe it.

2) Ignorance and subversion of scientific knowledge & discovery, critical thinking and human rights while championing unquestioning devotion, faith and subservience:

Whether it's Galileo or Darwin, any revolutionary ideas which displace man as the center of the universe will be met with hostility. Religion wants us to be unquestioning followers; it's telling that none of the three big monotheist religions have any mention of intelligence as a quality to be sought out...it's always faith.

It is utterly ridiculous that God, the Supreme Being and creator of the Universe would create men and demand them to worship him ceaselessly, groveling at his feet daily and begging for forgiveness of their sins (even though he created your sins as well as a Hell for you to suffer for them). If God is all knowing, all seeing and all loving he knows the moment you are born whether you are going to Heaven or Hell...what kind of sick being would create people knowing they would be destined for such eternal damnation?

3) Religion is shielded from criticism and protected from rational inquiry.

Regardless of the country or time period the commonality is that religion is protected from the sorts of inspection that other institutions are subjected to. This is achieved by many different means including fear of a God who demands obedience and punishment of death for outspoken criticism. In more recent times it is the cry of "intolerance" or "racism" from religious leaders whenever their faith is held up to scrutiny. This protection has over time allowed some religions to become corrupt and filthy rich.

I would like to see a day when religious belief is treated like any other belief and is not entitled to make any unverified claims. It boggles my mind that the average religious person will spend a great deal of effort researching and verifying claims made about a car before buying it yet will accept the first religion that comes along despite none of the claims holding up to any inquiry.

Anyway, that's 3 out of...100 things

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Judas

System Specs

go watch "zeitgiest"

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OmegaRED

System Specs

No thanks, I'm a little sick of conspiracy movies.

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Maddogg6

Found here...
ZEITGEIST, The Movie - Official Release - Full Film

And Mousey and Omega pretty much summed up my view....
Religion teaches us to accept things that are not proven as fact - and makes things like discrimination and murder more easily justifiable. On top of the obvious manipulative qualities religion posseses.

Sandok

Religion can exist if it gives a person meaning to their life... I personally don't need religion but if someone does to make themselves a better person, so be it.

However, I must say that in a few countries (thinking of a big superpower here), religion is taken to litteraly and is PART of the goverment which is just wrong.

Maddogg6

Agreed....
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Another strong argument against religious ideas of god for me is...

Who made god? Where did god come from?

Christians will say something like 'god is all time and all time is god' - meaning, because he was 'always' there - there is no birth of god (or beginning) - and because theres no birth - there was no origin.
Yet... the biggest piece of 'evidence' of the existence of god is that 'the universe is so complex and so perfect in the way it operates - there must be an architect'
ok - apply that to where god comes from - hes so perfect he must have had an architect - who?.

Its a huge contradiction to me.

OmegaRED

System Specs

This is why organized religion are not a positive influence on the world. They pretend to search for God and meaning yet all the big religions have stories which lay out the entirety of creation and what God wants from us (to worship him).

I disagree with any religious person who says their faith gives them meaning when their sole duty is to bow down to their supernatural lord and master not just in life but for an eternity in afterlife. What kind of meaningful life is that? I know this isn't the case with all religions, but for the big three that's the way it is.

Maddog, that's a good question that most religious people have never asked themselves. They should also ask why the Supreme Being who could have anything he could possibly want is such a jealous God that it's a sin to worship other Gods. Why would he even create men only to demand they worship him and pray to him (even though he ignores all prayers)?

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Maddogg6

A christian will likely say something like 'because god gave us free will' - as if he chose to give him self some kind of challenge. It makes no sense to me either - but thats the argument I have heard before. too me - its another start to another circular argument....

edit: first off - a christian would never agree that he ignores all prayers.... then... /edit
They will likely say something to the effect that 'its gods will, and to question him is blasphemous' - it would seem he picks and chooses who he would grant wishes for.
A football stars wish is granted to win a game, but a kid with cancer is ignored... ??
I choose to decline that line of thinking myself.

Sandok

I think you guys know its impossible to change somebodies opinion... Right? I mean, I do now (after a billion debates).

People believe in stupid things, but that doesn't mean you can force them to see your beliefs... Honestly, I've noticed people who understand science deny God and people who "think" they know science well... Love God

LordLink

IMO it's not good to "debate" religions as it's a personal choice ansd I don't remember who was saying "it's not good to speak about religion (if not asked) as you never know who you'll be offending" but I agree with that. Thats on the one hand, on the other hand what is irritating is that usually when people are speaking about religions other than theirs they don't really know the religion they are talking about and the fact is that they got biased judgements.