Pope's exorcist squads will wage war on Satan - Page 2

OmegaRED · Jan 2, 2008, 07:59 PM

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Originally Posted by mike2h

since i beleive in god i also believe in satan. & while i wont rule out possession as something real i think omega has a very valid point.
while either side of the argument cant be empirically proven(like most things related to religion) i also think that if possession is a fact, non believers would most likely be the least desirable for an act of possesion.
fyi omega, almost any religion - including the 'dead' ones - has some form of possession - which is to say that the ones that dont have it somewhere are a small minority. & i realise that doesnt change whta you said, just not sure if it is valid on several levels.

Regional differences also play a huge role. For example, why doesn't the Virgin Mary (or another mass religious sighting) ever occur in a non Christian nation? Believers will always see their religious symbolism, saints and Deities rather than another religion because that's what they've been programmed to see.

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what & how are 'excorcist squads' supposed to stop satanism(wich is far less common than most think)?
assuming the found a group of satanists & actually determined that they were the real deal & not wannabes playing. what do they do, asume they are all possesed(even if they were real id doubt any of them would actually be possesed due to the problems that prohibit possessee's from interacting with other humans) & go in with crosses to the fore & holy h2o spraying everywhere? or do they lay in wait & ambush them individually & 'get' confessions from them?
bty didnt the catholic church used to have an 'army' that used to run around searching out evil & destroying it a couple of centuries ago?
while i firmally believe that it is everybodys responsibilty to hinder evil in whatever form it takes, dont know that the pope has got the right idea here.
besides i have killed many more demons, devils, etc, than any number of po0ntifs & their minions.

The Catholic Church is always far behind science and reasoning. How long did it take for the Church to realize there aren't any Witches?

Although, to the Church's credit the Bible does say "Suffer not a witch to live" and if the Bible says it then it must be true.

Does anyone still believe in witches these days?

Witchcraft is not much different than Demonic Possession; we know that mentally ill people were thought possessed until medical advances and psychiatry showed us just how messed up people can be and not even be possessed! Just you see, in 50 years or so the Catholic Church will backtrack yet again and admit there's no such thing as Demonic Possession.

Maddogg6 · Jan 4, 2008, 05:02 PM

Good point Omega...
To me - the idea of a 'demon' started off as a parable to describe things like 'guilt' and 'remorse' (or psychological disorders as you hinted at) - *feelings* and conditions that words did not yet exist to describe these now commonly known psychological ideas.
Historically, God has gotten credit for everything not yet understood.

But one thing is for certain, I operate in this way in general; if a source of information has proven to be inaccurate - or needs some special person to properly interpret said information, its likely designed to manipulate/guide the 'sheep'. It *should* at the very least, cause a red flag to be raised - and force all to re-consider the validity of the information.

I think the whole bible started out as Psychology V.01 - and we are now on Psychology 501 - and the bible has evolved into 'fear mongering & mass manipulation - the Internship'.

That just makes so much more logical sense to me.

But maybe some god should get credit for the big bang? - its likely *no one* will ever convince me of this in either direction. For now, its only a possibility I would at least consider.

Can *anyone* produce a person that can perform mystical/magical unexplainable phenomenon (holy or otherwise 'evil') at will or some determined frequency that any joe, or scientist can freely investigate? - it hasnt happened yet -why not? because its a fairy tale - is the obvious deduction.

OmegaRED · Jan 4, 2008, 06:03 PM

I agree and I'll explain why. When people look around and see the marvelous things nature has to offer it often has the effect of creating belief in God. What amazes me is how they go from believing God created all this to picking the most convenient God to credit for all of it. The sheer number of man made Gods and religions suggests that they are all wrong and that if God does exist he is completely unknown to us.

I think people want to be led around like children, told what to do and how to think so they pick a God who requires those qualities of his followers. Whereas if you believed the Universe was created by some unknown God there's nothing to worship, no fairytales and nothing to be afraid of. Where's the comfort in that?

Maddogg6 · Jan 4, 2008, 08:32 PM

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The sheer number of man made Gods and religions suggests that they are all wrong and that if God does exist he is completely unknown to us.

Oh - that, and - it just so happens, god only speaks to those who goto theological schools (?!? - anyone else making such claims are labeled a 'nutcase') - if god is so 'all knowing' - he would forseen the trouble with these so called 'demons' - and would also know that 'faith' is inherently flawed and illogical, would have warned/forseen that 'priest turned pedophile' (who also likely made some claim that god talked to him too) ...etc... this idea of god only makes sense if this god was some kind of sadist - I dont wish to believe that.

The whole notion of 'Faith', if anything - *is* *the* great evil of this world - as, it is the exact mechanism that makes; 'priest turned pedophile' and 'killing in the name of god' possible and *does* affect most all of our lives in some way or another. But yet, the use of logic, has been demonized over and over through out the ages. ?? wtf - what kind of god creates *this* kind of world? - The obvious answer is - 'none' - its all man made greed.

Sure, I get the whole 'why take a chance' mentality - but...

I wish religion (edit: spirituality - religion, being the institutions prescribing personal spirituality - theres no need for a 'church of fornication' is there?) was like how sex has been for centuries in the US - 'Everyone does it but no one talks about it. Its personal and stays in the bedroom.'

Which segues into something else....
Did cavemen have 'sex education classes'?
Of course not - fornication has come natural since well before sex ed was invented - no one really needed to 'beleive' or have faith in anything to make a baby. Just be shown the mechanics, and the proof popped out 9 months later - usually.

Now, no one argues that procreation is of course *very important* for the survival of a species... So why isnt 'Spirituality' the same? - if it *so* important - like the difference between heaven and hell for eternity, it should also be just as natural/simple. (edit: and if we *do* simplify these things, ideas like guilt, remores, and mental disabilities equating to the notions of 'demons' makes most sense logically)

No logical sense to these popular ideas of god. And what, with all the logic that dictates the rest of the universe (not all logic is understood, granted) - why is god (edit: Spirituality) so unique?

Few theologians directly answered those question with anything that resembled a logical answer. It always ends with 'gods will' at some point. Which actually is a theologians way of say 'hell if I know'... Few will actually say 'I don't know' which I also find interesting as well.

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Whereas if you believed the Universe was created by some unknown God there's nothing to worship, no fairytales and nothing to be afraid of. Where's the comfort in that?

More importantly - how can you control people with out the fear of god/afterlife. ??

FuNsTeR · Jan 8, 2008, 03:51 PM

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Originally Posted by OmegaRED

You've got to love this Pope

What's even more awesome is that we too can fight demons!

Pope's exorcist squads will wage war on Satan | the Daily Mail

i have no time for Pope Adolf the 1st or his followers

Senor_Mota · Jan 10, 2008, 01:13 PM

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Originally Posted by OmegaRED

To clarify, are you saying we shouldn't worry about our religious denomination but rather keeping our asses from going to Hell (by Hell I mean actual Hell, flames and torture for eternity)?

Well, yes, Omega. Yes. You do have personal accountability, right? You do manipulate your actions and face your own consequences, right?

Liberate Te Ex Infernis.

Maddogg6 · Jan 10, 2008, 02:26 PM

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Originally Posted by Senor_Mota

Well, yes, Omega. Yes. You do have personal accountability, right? You do manipulate your actions and face your own consequences, right?

Liberate Te Ex Infernis.

what about the mentally ill, are they accountable for all of their actions? ( in society?)

From: History of mental disorders - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Ancient Egypt:
With the first "great civillization," that of the Ancient Egyptians, came the first signs of change in the treatment of the mentally ill. Egypt, like the early stone-age societies (and indeed most societies for the next 3-and-a-half millennia), regarded mental illness as magical or religious in nature.

And:

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Ancient Judaism

The concept of a single God as articulated in Judaism paved the way for a shift in views on mental health. While still almost completely religious in nature, the adoption of monotheism allowed for the idea that mental illness was not a problem like any other, caused by one of the gods, but rather caused by problems in the relationship between the individual and God, in some sense (to put it in modern terms) self-conflict or repressed guilt.

Finally a hint to some reasonable sense...

And..

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Medieval Islam

More than a thousand years later, Islam was beginning to spread across the Arabian Peninsula and across Asia and into Africa and parts of southern Europe. Like Judaism, Islam stressed the need for individual understanding of their mental situation. Those afflicted with a mental illness were thought to be possessed by jinn (genies), supernatural spirits that can be either good or bad.

oops... the introduction of an 'exception to gods rules'

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Medieval Europe

Middle Ages

Mental illness in the Middle Ages was very often diagnosed as witchcraft. Those found acting irrationally or suffering hallucinations were thought to be possessed and were subsequently tortured and usually killed.

This sounds very similar to early US (Salem) - who were mostly christians.

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Asylums

Occurring with the Renaissance, the legislation of witchcraft diminished and was replaced with insane asylums. Treatment in asylums was very poor, often secondary to prisons. The most well known of these asylums was Bedlam where at one time spectators could pay a penny to watch the inmates as a form of entertainment.

Ahh - now them 'lunatics' (derived from the beleif that the moon had some affect on ones mental capacities ??) - becomes a source of some good old fashioned christian entertainment.

But now, they are prayed for by some, and most won't offer any 'new' opinions from god. - But some will, and those that do - will obviously conflict with gods old opinion - does god change his mind, in the eternal sense of time, as quick as a woman does? (ok, sexist remark, sorry, but its used effectively to make a point.)
According to this - its argued amongst the church members...
internetmonk.com

Blog Archive

The Christian and Mental Illness III: Is Mental Illness Demonic or the Result of Sin?

When clearly; many mental disorders have been proven to be chemically related in the brain. But the bible thumpers continue to argue over it.
Instead of putting energy where science has made the most progress in treating and preventing at least some cases. Erm, I mean, with out actually killing them or locking them up in some theater/mental facility.

OmegaRED · Jan 10, 2008, 02:53 PM

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Originally Posted by Senor_Mota

Well, yes, Omega. Yes. You do have personal accountability, right? You do manipulate your actions and face your own consequences, right?

Liberate Te Ex Infernis.

Hell is improbable but if it did exist, easily avoidable, convert to Islam then blow up some unbelievers and you'll be sitting in Heaven with 72 virgins rather than rotting in Hell for murder.

OmegaRED · Jan 10, 2008, 03:26 PM

Holy smokes I hope this wasn't Senor Mota trying to get the evil out of him.

Local News | Idaho man sees "mark of the beast," cuts off and microwaves hand | Seattle Times Newspaper

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Idaho — A man who believed he bore the "mark of the beast" amputated one of his hands, put it in a microwave and summoned authorities, Kootenai County sheriff's deputies say.

The man, in his mid-20s, was calm when deputies arrived at his home in this north Idaho town Saturday afternoon, and neither he nor the severed hand bore any noticeable tattoo or other mark, sheriff's Capt. Ben Wolfinger.

The man, whose name was withheld, was in protective custody in the mental health unit of Kootenai Medical Center in Coeur d'Alene, where he and the hand were taken by ambulance. Hospital spokeswoman Lisa Johnson would not say whether an attempt was made to reattach the hand, citing patient confidentiality restrictions.

"He put a tourniquet on his arm before, so he didn't bleed to death," Wolfinger said. " That kind of mental illness is just sad." The New Testament Book of Revelation contains a passage in which an angel is quoted as saying, according to the New International Version of the Bible, "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink the wine of God's fury.

mike2h · Jan 10, 2008, 04:08 PM

i think the dispute over his 'mental illness' is at an end.

Maddogg6 · Jan 10, 2008, 04:59 PM

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Originally Posted by OmegaRED

Holy smokes I hope this wasn't Senor Mota trying to get the evil out of him.

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what about the mentally ill, are they accountable for all of their actions? ( in society?)

'speak of the devil'

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i think the dispute over his 'mental illness' is at an end.

for whom? - this guy is still alive and while his mind ?may? be more at ease - surely his suffering has been displaced to living his life one handed - best case scenario that is. For all we know next week he'll see the same allusive marks on his other hand - what would he do then? That is, if he continues on untreated.

mike2h · Jan 10, 2008, 08:36 PM

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for whom? - this guy is still alive and while his mind ?may? be more at ease - surely his suffering has been displaced to living his life one handed - best case scenario that is. For all we know next week he'll see the same allusive marks on his other hand - what would he do then? That is, if he continues on untreated.

do you post drivel like this just to be argumentative? or are you truly this obtuse?

OmegaRED · Jan 10, 2008, 10:21 PM

He's a mad dog you gotta shoot him to stop him.