mike2h

& take positive action.
i agree with this article 100%
http://www.reuters.com/article/blogB...QffCOR77fHrDXw

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BlueMak

Fear. The same way islam expanded and the same way makes people not "wanting" to leave.

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"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,
You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis

OmegaRED

Red Mosque sounds an awful lot like Waco.

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mike2h

only in the sense that religous fanatics were stockpiling weapons & causing physical & mental harm to women & children.
red mosque was actually training/brainwashing people to become suicide bombers & kill nonbeleivers in every way they could think of.

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OmegaRED

The problem I have with articles (and books) that criticize Islam is that many of them are writen by pro Christian authors and their objectivity goes out the window.

For instance, this quote:

I find it hard to believe that Islam makes people more violent (or open to violence), more likely it's due to being poorer and not living a comfortable 9-5 lifestyle that those in the West enjoy. If you don't have weekend BBQ's and Harry Potter 6 to look forward to you'll be more likely to blow yourself up

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BlueMak

You don't see very poor people of other religions constantly randomly blowing other people up, do you?

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"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,
You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis

OmegaRED

Duh, they can't afford explosives.

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mike2h

but the poor of islam can.... & do.

while i partially agree with you that society & economics play a role in islam being prone to violence, you have to remeber that islam is the foundation & sets the rules for how these societys perform & function.

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T.N.G.O.G.

Islam is not the problem, rather it is the people who commit crimes in GOD's name that should be examiine. Religion, nor faith is not the cause of wickedness, people are.

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T.N.G.O.G.- U2KONLINE 2007
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mike2h

while i basically agree with you, i think you missed the point. islam is propagating violence worldwide at a very alarming rate. very litle is being actively done within islam to curb this 'trend'. christianity(as an example) has had similar periods of violence in the past, but have basically advanced past these violent outbursts. & when some crazyies pop up with some crazy violent tend, christianity tends to weed them out or at least step on them hard enough that he yare mostly limited to rhetoric. other religions have followed similar paths.
islam, while not always condoning the actions of theses cowards as allowed them to propogate without any real impediment from the vast majority. that needs to change.

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OmegaRED

If you take away the idea that there's a supernatural omniscient being that has a special place for you in eternity, you'll be a lot less likely to blow yourself up or kill a heretic/infidel/unbeliever in the name of your religion. Religion is just one more barrier to treating people exactly like you'd want to be treated.

Religion and faith may not be the root of wickedness but humanity would be a heck of a lot better off without it.

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T.N.G.O.G.

Only in your mind bro. First and last, i'm not a christian and neither am i a disciple. But i am a believer of GOD, and Jesus Christ and the holy bible. And if i can live my life correctly and do what i am suppose to do, so can the next man.

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T.N.G.O.G.- U2KONLINE 2007
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mike2h

the problem with this is that it doesnt take into account that if peeps cant find one way to mess with other people, they will find another- if there was no religion there would be some other excuse.
while the amount of horrific deeds done in the name of religion is beyond count & belief, i truly think that belief in god(whoever that may be) has brought at least an equal amount of good & hope into peoples lives.
that bein said, i still think islam needs to examine itself & determine why it has such a high propensity for violence... & & deal with it. & sooner than later.
islam is on the verge of a crisis, more & more countries/peoples are associating the fanatics with islam as a whole, & this is not entirely unjustified given the increasing spread of violence. anybody & everything has become a target for theses lunatics.
if islam doesnt do something soon to slow this down & truly seperate itself from the terrorists they will face more repurcussions from the world community as a whole. this would not be good for anybody, but may become a necessary evil.

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OmegaRED

You don't need to believe in God, Jesus Christ or the validity of the Holy Bible to be a good person and live your life correctly. Once you realize that religion is really not much more than training wheels for life, as you grow up it can be tossed aside like belief in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus. You would laugh at a grown man who placed teeth under his pillow but revere those that pray to a man in the sky

I'm glad to see you pointed out the responsibility that religion must claim for both the good and bad. I think if you kept a list on both columns the bad would outnumber the good uses for religion.

The only reason I can see for not scrapping religions altogether is that they act as a the worlds universal morality. Most of us have grown up in Western countries and benefited from proper education and moral teachings from our parents and school. Unfortunately, many children are raised in broken homes or have no education, religion can fill the void to teach them the basics of not killing, raping or torturing their fellow man. Of course, this won't be perfect substitute for real parenting but at least it could keep kids from turning into dangerous criminals

PS. I've got these two books "The politically incorrect guide to Islam" and "The Trouble with Islam Today" which would add to this discussion but I've been going through those Harry Potter books first

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SaberZ

Here is the thing I believe most of you are missing. The media is reporting these incidents, they are on the minds of most people and the focal point for criticism.

Around the world there are worse atrocieties occuring both past and present from other religions. Stalin starving or killing most of his people, Hitler nearly wiping an entire race/religion off the planet. The Russians vs the Chechnyens(sp?) today, on and on.

Are they islamic? muslim? no, they were and still are committing these acts, and yet they are rarely discussed since the media itself deems it unworthy of publishing or broadcasting it. If the tables were turned I am sure we would be sitting here debating about Christianity or Catholisism(damn im off with the spelling, apologies).

In the end what I am trying to say is that all religions have had their fair share of zealots. The former palestinian leader Arafat was christian and was depicted in the media as a troublemaker. Having been i