islam needs to examine itself closely..

cozumel

I agree 100% with both of you. Governments and people should accept full responsibility. That includes the US and nations that follow their lead. There is an equal responsibility for what is happening. The US, Britain and others should accept and address the inequalities in their foreign policies as being a major factor in the dreadful situation that the whole world now finds themselves. After all, it takes two to tango.

T.N.G.O.G.

Just like the bible, people use the word of GOD and twist it up and commit wickedness.
Islam is peaceful, the bible is peaceful, etc, read what i said above and you will understand.

peace

slowhandluke

people have killed more for the name of god than anything else I can think of. It is sad that the belief in a higher being can instill this apparent right to kill.

It is quite often embarassing to be a human. if I was a higher being I would just wipe us all out and be done with it.

T.N.G.O.G.

People are not killing in the name of GOD, rather they are using GOD to commit wickedness. People are being decieve by Satan, thus thats where the killing is coming from, also due to sin of this world.

Also, wiping humans off the earth is not the answer. If i'm a good hearted person, there are many more to follow. Why wipe off the good?

OmegaRED

If God is omnipotent and loves humanity but lets Satan deceive people while he sits by and does nothing then he is not God.

Regardless, you just proved slowhands point by blaming supernatural entities for killing instead of people being responsible for their own actions.

mike2h

no he didnt & you are showing how uinformed you are about something you choose to denigrate. i dont think(maybe im wrong about his viewpoint) tnog is saying evil acts are the devils - or any other 'supernatural beings' fault, but that he has put the desire there & that somebody has chosen wrong. the same happens for good to. either way it is still our choice & responsibilty
while i have no use for religion in general, i do beleive in god. & if you know anything about god, it is that he put us here to make our own choices & pay the consequences for them. period.

OmegaRED

TNOG said "People are being decieve by Satan, thus thats where the killing is coming from" this is taking the responsibility away from people. If the Devil is responsible for the evil in us then it isn't our fault. You can't have it both ways and say we have freedom of choice but when we choose to be evil it's the Devil's doing.

Which God would that be? Allah, Zeus, Osiris, Apollo, Thor? Last time I browsed Godchecker there were 2,850 God's to choose from. While I can't say I'm on a personal level with each and every one I'm guessing you're talking about the God in the Bible. This dictator has set up a special place for us to suffer in Hell if we act on the free choice He has given us.

I imagine God and Allah arguing over each soul like the judges on American Idol, God says this guy is a sinner he blew up a building and deserves to rot in Hell, Allah says no this man is a martyr and 72 virgins await him in Heaven. Surely this is how it works if we "make our own choices & pay the consequences for them".

T.N.G.O.G.

#1 There is sin in the world
#2 The devil exist and he is deceiving alot of people, or the world in general( the world is people, i'm not talking about deceiving all, but many)
#3 Everyone who is born into this world is full of sin( That doesn't mean that all will do wrong, rather some will do wrong and some wont )
#4 Due to adam and eve, this is only reason why we have sin. Its also the ony reason why we live this way
#5 When i say that the devil is deceiving people, that doesn't mean that mankind is not at fault, i'm saying the devil has some type of " influence " over people, the devil can push people into doing things.

mike2h understood what i was saying, and the only reason why omegared did not understand is because he doesn't believe.

OmegaRED

I don't understand because I'm not a kid anymore and none of what you said has any basis in reality.

I feel like the robot in this comic...

cozumel

Your made of tin?

OmegaRED

No, though that would be quite awesome.

mike2h

talk obout not having any basis in reality.
i have no problem with people that refuse to beleive in our existence having a higher purpose or that there is an overall creator( & whatever his/her/its opposite is) that has our best interest at heart in the long run. faith is a hard thing to come by, especially in the world we live in.
what is really lame to me is people that have to denigrate other people for their beliefs & not even bothering to have any sort of intelligent understanding of what it is they are putting down - or worse imo, have some knowledge but choose to make ignorant statements because they feel 'good' about trying to minimise somebody elses core beliefs.
especially when they come up with over simplistic generalisations that show a true lack of understanding of religion in general & god specifically.
i really do get not liking religion in genral, i dont, but the bible & many other texts from various religions have such good guidances for living by, dont get what the problem is.
unfortunatley for you omega, the bible, the koran, & many other religous texts are based in reality. historically these people & places did exist. there is no way to deny that. you may not have to believe in the miracle/speaking with god parts but there is no reason at all, not to take the messages of hope, & goodly ways to deal with fellow human beings.
& let me save you some effort, there is all sorts of stuff you can find that can be construed or is negative. please dont put yourself on the level of any other twisted religous fanatic & use common sense & decency in what you choose to take form those words.
people that have to look for something negative in things that have so much good built in are a big part of the reason there is so much misery on this earth. just another version of the people that twist scriptural texts to suit their own personal agendas.

OmegaRED

First off, I never get picky about this but your posts are driving me nuts. Could you please use proper sentence structure including periods and paragraphs so that I can decipher this mess of text and respond to it. Along with a spell checker plugin this is important in topics of a serious nature.

Ok, here we go

No, they are not. The bible says the Earth was created around 6000-8000 years ago and we have fossils and tons of other evidence to prove this is ludicrous. Youth Earth Creationists would have us believe the Dinosaurs were on Noah's Ark; the flood which there is also no evidence of ever occurring. It is a fantasy.

There is no historical evidence that Jesus even existed. I came across this yesterday and it's only fitting:

That's not how it works in reality. You can't just pick all the happy and lovey dovey parts of The Bible and Koran then tell us to ignore the parts which encourage bigotry and atrocities.

Here's just a few of the "messages of Hope and goodly ways to deal with fellow human beings":

GE 3:16 Women should suffer pain during childbirth. (Note: This verse was used by the Church to oppose the use of anesthesia during childbirth.)

EX 21:16 Whoever steals a man is to be put to death. (Note: This is in spite of the fact that a father can sell his daughter into slavery; see EX 21:7-11.)
EX 21:17, LE 20:9, DT 21:18-21 A child who curses his parent(s) is to be put to death. A stubborn and/or rebellious child is to be put to death.

EX 22:16-17 An unbetrothed virgin is required to marry her seducer.
EX 22:18, DT 18:10 A witch or sorcerer is to be put to death.
EX 22:20 Anyone who sacrifices to other gods must be destroyed.
EX 22:29 Firstborn children should be sacrificed to the Lord.
LE 3:17 The eating of blood and fat are prohibited forever.
LE 10:9 Drinking strong drink in the tabernacle of the congregation will result in death.





Which is it man? Everything and everyone in the Bible is real but use common sense in what you choose to believe? That's hypocritical and not how rational people operate. You are no different than those people you describe because you block out all the bad stuff in favor of the things you like in the Bible.


I'll leave you with one quote to mull over.

“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.”

- Philip K Dick

mike2h

your silly assertions about dates in the bible aside, you are doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing, picking & choosing. the old testament is exactly that, the OLD testament. a lot of the stuff in it no longer applies, hence the NEW testament.
bty because some shallow minded people seem to think creationism & evolution are mutually exclusive doesnt mean everbody is that narrow minded.
have no idea what 'youth ...blahblah" is.
& yet again you choose to miss my point. i have never claimed that bible or any other religous text is perfect & an end result in & of itself. imo people are supposed to use them as guiding post as a way to act & to help find a path to the goodness that is in everybody. it is people that only find the worst in everything & take neg things from here & there & ignore everything in between, including common sense, that has screwed up religion in general & caused all sorts of misery for the world.
you dont have to believe in the god to acknowledge that overall, the general underlying principals the bible tries to teach are beneficail to man. this is commomnly accepted worldwide, even by other religions. same is true for a lot of other spiritual teachings.
& again you get it wrong. you shouldnt confuse spiritual events with history. there is a lot of real historical evidence that jesus & the apostles lived. there isnt any that they didnt live. but probably according to you all the scrolls, inscriptions, etc from those times are part of some conspiracy to defraud us of something or other.
so, i guess ill continue to try & take what is positive out of what i read & you can continue your quest to find negativity & belittle things you dont want to understand - & i do mean understand, not beleive in.
just to be really clear, i dont necessarily beleive in the biblical god as represented in the bible, but i do believe in a higher being that did create our universe & loosely oversees our overall wellbeing.
& having had an avid interest in archaeology & paleontology since i was in grade school & being a life science major in college... well you figure it out.
anyway, we are obviously diametrically opposed, & while we are semi on topic i dont see anything positive coming out of this particular series of posts. do you?

T.N.G.O.G.

Well the bottom line and i'm done with this thread, because if someone doesn't want to listen, i'm not going to continue wasting my time trying to teach people what needs to be taught to them.

Omegared, if you are not a believer, thats your business. All i ask of you is to make the right choices in life. If you choose not to believe, carry on........

mike2h: Stay strong in faith and look foward to better days......

peace

OmegaRED

I think you are too lazy to investigate any of my claims or even your own and this will not facilitate a healthy discussion.

There is NO evidence that Jesus even existed. The Gospels aren't eye-witness accounts.

As a natural consequence of the gospels not being written until decades after the supposed life of Jesus, the canonical gospel stories are not eye-witness accounts.

The Messianic Prophecies also fail on every level

This is quite frankly insulting. I understand this enough to provide sources and some facts to back up my assertions yet you reject them outright without even an explanation.

It's you that doesn't understand the religions and books you are defending.

Why don't you quit the act and just be honest with yourself, you're just going on what you've been told by your parents or church and never thought to verify any of it. Please don't criticize me just because I've put the effort in to find out the things you didn't want to know.

OmegaRED

"Faith is often the boast of the man too lazy to investigate."
- F.M. Knowles

OmegaRED

Well, now that that's done with...

My views on Islam have changed since this thread started (thanks to lots of reading) and I do agree that Islam is inherently more violent than other religions. This piece is excellent and directly related to this topic:

Don’t call me radical. Don’t call me moderate. Call me Muslim.

mkk

Check that "Sheikh Haron" dude up. Always check up on sources.

OmegaRED

When it's too good to be true it probably isn't