NEW POLL OUT 33% of french want U.S. to loose this war

bluelight

Yeah he built his whole army system after the modeol of the Red army...complete with political officers to control and punish those not conducting according to the code.


In the Red army these officers were hated by the normal soldiers and officers.I figure the same thing applies to Iraq.

Followingly...If Iraq once had an army consisting of 350 000 men ..then that does not mean they were all butchers.Only a small part just as in the Red Army had this butching function.


The others were and is nothing else than ....food for cluster bombs.

Bluelight

bluelight

Give us a link to this poll.........



Bluelight

Falstaff

Cannon Fodder, and yes, with IRAQI Komisars standing behind them, I am sure many IRAQI men went to their deaths or face a firing squad or worse yet, annihalaiton of their family units...Shias and Sunni Muslims united in death, what an ironic twist..

Falstaff

Vive La France
April 5, 2003


Regarding Matthew Kauffman's March 29 Inside Pitch column [Business, "Sacre (Red, White And) Bleu!"]:

As a longtime francophile and one who believes that diversity in culture is the essential way toward peace, I find rather pathetic those who attack anything "French." If you don't know the difference between Grey Poupon and French's Mustard, perhaps you should broaden your cultural and culinary horizons.

Bashing any country's culture because of its politics is ignorant: It shows no distinction between the government and the people. Whatever attracts you to a country - its lifestyle, countryside, language, cultural arts - is not related to its historic warriors or crimes committed under the sword of military or political leaders.

The globe is covered with skirmishes and wars. Look beyond the hatred to see the heart of humans - people like you with a history to appreciate and a hunger for international friendship and peace through humanitarian gestures. Have you never been assisted by someone while travelling abroad? What about exchanges of students, art works or foreign films?

The beauty of our world will not be destroyed by bombs. It will be undermined by those who refuse to distinguish between the citizenry and the government.

Wake up, America, and smell the espresso. Oh, yes, and don't forget the croissants.

Julie Lindquist

Chaplin

The writer is president of L'Alliance Francaise, an international nonprofit, non-political organization that promotes French language and culture.

Malus

I don't think you understand. I said that the picture has nothing to do with fascist Nazis. However, if you can eloquently prove it to me, then be my guest. Yet, I can only surmise that picture really has no relevance to anything but the relationship between France and Iraq.

What do french fries have to do with the fact that you said the picture was fascist Nazi propaganda? Yes, boycotting french fries is a form of propaganda, but it has nothing to do with fascist Nazis! I really don't know why you brougt up the fascist Nazis in the first place. Every country uses propaganda in one way or another, so I really don't see the point of the comparison.

Falstaff

If your driving a car with one beer for every kind on the face of the planet, and you lay them on the seat in the back. drive as fast as you can and then Hit the brakes...some of the beers wind up on the dashboard, and in your face. spinning and spitting...You pick up what is left and determine what is good and what is bad, and throw them all back into the back seat...but there is that one beer, that one that can't be thrown back...it must be consumed and it is perhaps the one beer you wanted to begin with....Politics is like beer. our tastes change, and sometimes we cant choose whice agendas we can embrace and which we can disguard, but we stop everything to find the one beer that we can't ignore...and we relish it.. ha ha...brrrrrrrrrp, crap, I am so going to hell for this, ha ha....

bluelight

I brought it up because the media in your country and some of your citizens use the same methods when talkin about the French as the Nazis did about the jew in the thirties.

If you doint see the point that does not bother mje much.

I do.

Simple.



Nazi style propaganda.

Bluelight

Falstaff

much more sophisticated, insidious, and effective as well..

bluelight

I dont know....they used the same simplifications...but in another way.In this case there is more resemblance with extreme right wing propaganda since it usually target races..nations..Soviet propaganda targeted capitalists with a simplification...that was bizarre...






Bluelight

merry

It wasn't really. They had replaced race with class, their ideology excluded nationalism, or even patriotism. "The working class goes to heaven".

merry

Yes, definitely, where can one read more about this poll?

Falstaff

Go to war....for the elite.....and they die.

bluelight

Not that i defend the communist wiew (i support a socialdemocratic wiew)...but...class is something that exists.It existed yesterday and it exists today....but yet that is also another discussion ;-)

bluelight

I have read about it since in Swedish papers.I doesnt say though how it is done and if it is relevant.Personally i have a hard time believeing it is true for 30 percent of the French.Someone else stated that the French wanted to dig up American graves since the two wars and send the corpses back to USA.


That was all wrong.The idea came from an American politician tha6 felt it was unworthy for American soldiers to be buried in France and thus suggested that they would be dug up and transported to Usa.


After that....Thugs had vandalised churchyards in France where allied soldiers were buried.

This...harldy reflects the wiew of the French.


Bluelight


Bluelight

merry

Yes... it definitely exists, it's a way people are "classified", like race or nation. Imo, if you replace nation with class and viceversa, there won't be a lot of differences left between nazis and commies.

I sure hope we will have this discussion sometime, I am very curious about your thoughts on these matters. Maybe when the war is over.

Falstaff

I know your waxing philisophically, and you are close to making another point. But one could imply anything else as well with substitution of terms like Nazi or socialist or even Fascist or even Marxist as well.

I know from my own experience, the average american is considered some kind of political elitist, because my country and only my country can really call themselves a democracy, but nothing in my opinion could be further from the truth. I also wonder if those that carry signs or protest anything here even vote? Or are involved in their own local or state politics..

merry

I don't know if I understand this. The post you quote was part of a discussion about propaganda. I wouldn't go that far as to equate nazis and commies in all respects, although imo they're close in many, the main being they both attempt to "save the world", one way or another. The "Truth" in the name of which they do that may be different, the situation is much the same. Politics - like Engineering - is about making things work, saving the world and the Truth are for religion or philosophy.

I don't know much about the average American, or Canadian, or Brit - that's why I'm here in the first place (my pretentious talk comes in second ). As for democracy, well I found this quote from W. Churchill: "The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter." Those protesters concern you, I don't question your thinking; from where I stand, they encourage me to epect my freedom of expression in the future New World Order.

Falstaff

It's almost palpable, a bias from news media against anything George Bush has to do, and perhaps the other presidents that went to war. But you can definitely see it on television, it permiates everything, Even these threads, follow them. I am not pro war, but everyone seems to be affected by the media, and our facts collide very often. I was trying to illustrate a point, Regardless of attempts to draw paralells between unpopular political ideologies, you can almost transpose the names in some the most common rhetoric. I have noticed a perceptible unbalanced approach to antiwar reporting as well. Every damn bit of what I see on the news lately seems to be like propaganda. Media, commited to making strong statements, intentionally delete or distort the facts (BBC) or World Press to keep the ball rolling so to speak. I often amused at how often the same antiwar point is driven over and over again through the threads without being challenged appropriately by asking for facts or backing up statements...These forums are supposed to be a debate about politics and economics and ideaology as well. but I read alot of reactionism...I enjoy combing out salient points when they are made whether I make or someone else does, but you see bias, lots of bias against bush and the war and america...and it is tolerated in these forums...I for one will not, I will respond without trying to personalize it. That wasn't directed at you..I have not control over anything in these forums...

generalstupid

we'll see how much their aspirations do for them... seeing as how iraq is basically ours...

Falstaff

Ever notice how much IRAQ looks like Texas, ha ha...at least "west" Texas..

Quote:

generalstupid - we'll see how much their aspirations do for them... seeing as how iraq is basically ours...

I don't think IRAQ will belong to anyone except the IRAQ people officially...watch news, the U.N. is making a concerted effort to create some kind of internation oversight. Bush and Blair just had a meeting about this, but nothing is ironed out yet..
I am more than a little suspicious about the motivation behind the U.N. regardless of how much good they bring to the IRAQI people, their record speaks for itself.

THE FASTER WE GET OUT OF IRAQ AND HAND IT OVER TO A COMPETENT AUTHORITY OR GOVERNMENT THE BETTER THE WHOLE WORLD WILL BE

radTube

How could U.N. have any other motivation than preserving world peace? It's still an organization made up of representatives of something like 150 nations of the world, even if the US government and US media try to make it into something else. Yes, their record speaks for it self. So what's your point? You speak about it like it was some military organization that's failed to do it's job. Security Council is just one of some 30 organizations that make up UN. And if SC has failed to do anything depends on your perspective.

Falstaff

but....they have an agenda, just like NATO, just like the Security Council, Just like the Coalition....The balance of power is being changed as we speak, the world is taking the Coalition more seriouisly now, who knows they might even be more aggressive towards tyrants and terrorists. But I haven't forgotten that the member nations have goals as well, even under the auspices of a bringing peace to ravage lands and establishing order, and then there is the matter of funding.....another thread perhaps, if anything, this war will re-energise the U.N.