Heroic act by coalition soldiers!!!

JavaFox

Further, you seem to be perfectly fine with the violations of international law that the Iraqi regime is perpetrating. I dismissed those retorts, Raid, because they are not really retorts at all. When I asked "Why do you not complain about Iraqi violations of the Geneva Convention?" saying "The US is violating them now!" isn't a response. It is a diversion.

The_Neon_Cowboy

Our soldiers handle that vey well...How they will handle a city with almost 5.000.000 potentional suicide bombers? only tme will tell....

1. yes you can to a point to weaken thier moral.
2. percian guided bombs
3. rules of engagement not very hard .. if they shoot at you you shoot back not very hard......


personally I dont think we will have much of a problem... if the fire chemial warheads .... then we will most likely fire nucular warheads/ or MOABs ... and just wipe them out...the iraqys will be gunning down thier own civillins anyway and just blaming the US .... for thier own deeds

SH4President

Stop wineing about justified killings??
You call shooting 6-12 rounds with a 25mm gun into a minibuss filled with women and children justified??
Without giving them any signal or warning before doing so?
Killing 10 of them, 5 women and 5 children(all 5 under the age of 5).
You think thats justified killing???

And, no I dont support crimes against humanity done by the Iraqy regime.

JavaFox

Without a warning? Where do you get your news from, Abu Dhabi TV? Even Radio Free Europe and the London Times report that there were warning shots and even shots into the engine. It was only after those failed that shots were fired into the vehicle.

And if you truly don't support the violations of the Iraqi regime, then why do I have this feeling that I will never see you post against them?

The_Neon_Cowboy

OH yes!, I usally run twards the people I think are trying to kill me .... NOT that doesnt hold any watter in my book.... they knew very clearly if they tried to run the check point and did it anyway....

you havent been watching much TV heave you ... there have been very happy greatings ... but, consideing that as those toops pass by and then you get gunned down by iraqy loalists then you not to happy then huh? one woman was hanged after waving at troops etc... people are still afraid saddams people are everywhere


Yea, they'll deside well with saddam in power and the current government. THey desuide to do exactly as told or die..... thay won't leave till the job is done

The_Neon_Cowboy

ok if you call two very loud warings over a PA system, warning shots is the air, shots in the engine, but the driver still kept on ...

kind of like that a madman with the truckload of explosives comeing to blow himself up...

try getting your stories stright . even your numbers are wrong."On Monday, U.S. troops shot and killed at least seven Iraqi civilians — some of them children — when the driver of their vehicle did not stop as ordered" -Msnbc.com


. where do you get you news? al quida.com or saddamismyleader.com ?

SH4President

Where I get my news from??
Try CNN.com and WashintonPost.com.

heres abit from WashingtonPost:

By William Branigin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, April 1, 2003; Page A01
NEAR KARBALA, Iraq, March 31 -- As an unidentified four-wheel-drive vehicle came barreling toward an intersection held by troops of the Army's 3rd Infantry Division, Capt. Ronny Johnson grew increasingly alarmed. From his position at the intersection, he was heard radioing to one of his forward platoons of M2 Bradley Fighting Vehicles to alert it to what he described as a potential threat.

"Fire a warning shot," he ordered as the vehicle kept coming. Then, with increasing urgency, he told the platoon to shoot a 7.62mm machine-gun round into its radiator. "Stop [messing] around!" Johnson yelled into the company radio network when he still saw no action being taken. Finally, he shouted at the top of his voice, "Stop him, Red 1, stop him!"
That order was immediately followed by the loud reports of 25mm cannon fire from one or more of the platoon's Bradleys. About half a dozen shots were heard in all.

"Cease fire!" Johnson yelled over the radio. Then, as he peered into his binoculars from the intersection on Highway 9, he roared at the platoon leader, "You just [expletive] killed a family because you didn't fire a warning shot soon enough!"

So it was that on a warm, hazy day in central Iraq, the fog of war descended on Bravo Company.

Fifteen Iraqi civilians were packed inside the Toyota, officers said, along with as many of their possessions as the jammed vehicle could hold. Ten of them, including five children who appeared to be under 5 years old, were killed on the spot when the high-explosive rounds slammed into their target, Johnson's company reported. Of the five others, one man was so severely injured that medics said he was not expected to live.



You think WashingtonPost is controlled by Saddam Hussein?

SH4President

Read the message above

raid517

As for if the shooting of civilians was deliberate or not? Well I doubt it. The troops were just jerky after what happend the day before. However I do wish the Americans weren't quite so prepared to 'shoot first' and ask questions later'. One of your pilots in an A10 tank buster killed another of our guys yesterday. That is despite our tanks being clearly marked and one of our guys waving a British flag at him. It seems the pilot, not being familiar with life outside of the US didn't recognise the flag and wasn't trained to recognise allied armour. One of the friends of the guy that got killed described the pilot as "having no regard for human life" and of being "... a cowboy out on a jolly." (A 'jolly' is a British soldiers deroratory term for Air Force pilots, who they think don't do any real fighting and just get into their machines for a 'jolly day out'). He said he thought some of the American forces were undiciplined and untrained and didn't know how to tell the difference between friend and foe.

There is a difference in military doctrine I guess. The Brits learned from their colonial days the best way to deal with a local population is to enlist their help and pay them good money for their efforts. Also they found that speaking the local language was imensely helpful and our troops are largely instructed to make efforts towards this end. Rebuilding local institutuions such as schools and hospitals and supplying medical care is another time honoured tactic. But really its the same old story as ever, pursaude the locals of the benefits of co-operation and pretty soon they will tag along.

A big example of this was a few days ago when an Iraqi expressed support for Saddam Hussein because when he ruled the region at least the water and electricity supply worked. British engineers prompty repaired the genarator, fixed the towns water pump took off their full battle dress and began partoling the town openly.

I often feel that Americans feel themselves to be too busy to deal with these details, or that they are simply not interested. I think they feel they should win the war first and then perhaps later set about winning the hearts of the local population.

I think this approach is likely to lead to a lot of hostility towards the American forces. What the American military is being asked to engage in is a social welfare program for the Iraqis - and we all know how may prominant figures in Washington positively baulk at the concept of social welfare, even for Americans, let alone an entire country full of Iraqis 'who have never paid a tax dollar in their lives'.

Sigh... Well anyway, I am not cheerful about the outcome of all this... Not cheerful at all...

Q

The_Neon_Cowboy

recenly its hard to tell. they apear to be very agenst the war. Ain't it funny how thier storys dont match all those who were there and the other reporters who were their .... it allready been talked about how they had a diffrent story of what happend...... many found it disturbing

The_Neon_Cowboy

Oh yea the entire poulation of the us is all cowboys! even the girls...

raid517

Sooo... are you saying that clear warnings were shouted over a PA system? Like what for example? "Stop!" "Stop or I'll shoot!" Mmm can anyone see the flaw here? I mean did they shout the waning in Arabic? Somehow I doubt it. Like I said there appears to be very little effort made by American troops to learn the local lingo. As far as the reporter who was there said, the warning shot was never fired - only when it was too late to fire a warning sot was anything done. My guess is these people were driving at high speed to escape the fighting, they came upon a chechpoint and saw a bunch of angry solidiers pointing guns at them and braking at them in a language they didn't understand and decided their lives were in danger and that they had to try to escape. Was it deliberate? I don't think you can say that. What you could say is that unless the Americas learn to interact better with the local population, the potential for more disasters like this is grave...

Q

raid517

Na, just a minority. Unfortunately that minority appear to be running the show right now...

Q

Falstaff

the population will be victems of guerilla warfare. And we will protect our troops and assets..Saddam is not going to control the clock, assuming he is still alive, but I doubt it now..

GOG

Ok, I'll try to answer this in a less cynical way. Peace and justice in the Middle East doesn't stand or fall with Saddam Hussein, it is far more complicated than that. Sure, Hussein is one of the worst leaders when it comes to torturing and killing his own people but there are lots of countries in the world that are doing the same. If we are going to make some body counts here, then we'll see that Israel (your ally) probably has killed at least the same amount of innocent people. Now this can't justify the acts of Hussein, but it will show that the problem in the Middle East is more complicated, and USA is a major part of this problem, thanks to it's silent approval of the humanitarian crimes commited by the Israelis. The issue here is not if Hussein is a cruel dictator or not, he certainly is. The issue is if we - the rest of the world are allowed to get rid of him because if that, we are not. This war started because the USA claimed that they had evidence of wmd in Hussein's possession, don't you forget that. I am still waiting for some proof of this.

The_Neon_Cowboy

Your very funny even if there isn't a single WMD found the war is still justified by 1441 so you can wait forever far as anyone cares. If they find WMD the will be aolt of people eating thier words so eather way we are coverd

BWX

Whoever is/was in control of the terrorist regime Saddam used to be the head of, threatened to kill all the relatives of the people in the vehicle and forced them to purposely run through the roadblock so that they would be shot by coalition forces JUST so they could show it on TV and so people like you could say these kinds of things.

Good going by you and people like you propping up a dying terrorist regime by spreading these lies, and helping murdering terrorists sabotage innocent people and blame their being killed on coalition soldiers who are in fact doing all they can to SAVE innocent civilians. People that don't see this are blind. If we wanted to kill innocent civilians we could have one this war in 2 days, we obviously have the means to blow the whole place to kingdom come and let God sort out the dead. BUT we don't - unlike the Iraqi terrorist regime, the coalition forces value innocent life and do everything in their power to preserve it.

You should be proud of yourself.

raid517

Erm... covered? The resolution also requires Iraq to supply information about weapons of mass destruction. That's why we went to war, remember? Well no, perhaps not... One thing I have learned about republicans is that to a man they all seem to have extremely short memories.

http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/02110803.htm

If we don't find any WMD in iraq, then in the eyes of the world we're screwed. Face it. If you think the French are arrogant now (not wishing to start another anti-French debate) you wait and see what they will be like if they are proved right. They will be positively insufferable.

At best if no WMD are found, all you can say is that we went to war on a legal technicality to which ultimately there proved to be no real substance.

It may work for you. But most other people in the world would recognise it for the hollow sham that it is.

We shall see though. It is still eary days. The next week will prove the most telling.

Q

GOG

Is this some kind of bizarre joke or what?

raid517

Oh come on, that's a Neoncowboy special (although he has been good lately) where you just pull something out of your butt/make it up and have no substantive evidence for it whatsoever. If you had a bunch of foreign troops waving guns at you and shouting for you to stop in a language you didn't understand, what would you do? Remember the reporter who was there said no initial warning shot was fired. In any case under such circumstances its a judgement call. 'Do I stop and maybe let these guys kill me?' (Hell they don't know who you are, the only soldiers they have seen are the nasty Iraqi ones). Or, 'do I keep going and perhaps escape? Heck they are already shooting at me, I'd better make a run for it anyway.'

Like I said, shouting at them in Arabic might at least have been a good start.

Q

The_Neon_Cowboy

the way its been told no compliance with 1441 and france insuring the and diplomatic approch would fail that had anything to do with milliatary action... so if the UN. fails to enfoce it' on resolutions it up to it members to enforce them. What ever every one else belive we are justifid weather they find wmd or not. This not only about it about not fully 101% compliance with 1441 ... thats whats opend the door ... they have alot to hide considering they fired many baned weapons like scuds allready... and the un team never found them..


not to mention why the thousands of shinny new chemical suits if thier not expecting to fight in a chemical weapon enviroment