Heroic act by coalition soldiers!!!

Vampyromaniac · Apr 1, 2003, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bluelight
If...everyone shuts up and accepts it as something irrelevant but unavoidable..then what?

Bluey, you don't have to accept it.
Simply report any offending posts, using the "Report this post to a Moderator" link.
The offender will be dealt with by staff.
If the offender continues his way, despite direct warnings, I imagine suspension/banning will follow.

You don't have to take it. Report it, and it will eventually be fixed. All it takes is patience

ToshiroOC · Apr 1, 2003, 04:18 AM

The staff is here for a reason, bluelight - and it does make our job much easier when people report posts then politely ignore them

~~bluelight~~ · Apr 1, 2003, 04:25 AM

Mmmm...

Bluelight

~~SH4President~~ · Apr 1, 2003, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Desert_Siege
Well, considering your obvious ignorance of the actions of the man you hold so highly in regard, lets just check out a few of his shining moments of heroism. These are all fact and not proganda.....and I have news for you dude. I don't care where I am at and what I am doing there, if several armed people in uniforms are yelling at me and firing weapons around my vehicle, then blow out my tires.....I think I am going to stop to see what they hell they want, but thats just me, maybe you would keep driving thinking they were shooting bugs off your grill or something.

Lets highlight this man you hold in such great light. Here are some of HIS shining acts of heroism:

The use of poison gas and other war crimes against Iran and the Iranian people during the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war. Iraq summarily executed thousands of Iranian prisoners of war as a matter of policy.

The "Anfal" campaign in the late 1980's against the Iraqi Kurds, including the use of poison gas on cities. In one of the worst single mass killings in recent history, Iraq dropped chemical weapons on Halabja in 1988, in which as many as 5,000 people — mostly civilians — were killed. Wow....nice guy! I can see why you hold in such high regard.

Crimes against humanity and war crimes arising out of Iraq's 1990-91 invasion and occupation of Kuwait. The county was looted, villages were destroyed, 1000's of women were raped and public executions were a common occurence.
Hmmm....talk about being somewhere you don't belong, but guess that only applies to us.....oops our bad.

Crimes against humanity and possibly genocide against Iraqi Kurds in northern Iraq. This includes the destruction of over 3,000 villages. The Iraqi government's campaign of forced deportations of Kurdish and Turkomen families to southern Iraq has created approximately 900,000 internally displaced citizens throughout the country. Now thats a really caring guy. Lets just force all these people out of a place they have lived for probably hundreds of years.

Crimes against humanity and possibly genocide against Marsh Arabs and Shi'a Arabs in southern Iraq. Entire populations of villages have been forcibly expelled. Government forces have burned their houses and fields, demolished houses with bulldozers, and undertaken a deliberate campaign to drain and poison the marshes. Thousands of civilians have been summarily executed.

And lets not forget the mass murders commited in Southern Iraq after the Gulf War was over. How many hundreds of thousands of people did he execute and torture after they revolted during the campaign to rid Kuwait of Saddam's Army? I can see why these same people have a fear to revolt again.

And the hits just keep on coming....wonder who he is going to execute, poison, rape, pillage and plunder next? Maybe your house if your lucky, but probably not due to the sacrifice of the very people you despise. Kind of ironic isn't it? We end up protecting the very people who despise us so much.

There is a big difference that your obviously too ignorant and biased to see. Our soldiers go far out of the way to AVOID civilian casualties while the man you adore makes it a matter of POLICY to routinely sacrifice and execute civilians and that is a proven fact. What kind of moron hides armor and missile batteries in CIVILIAN HOUSING AREAS? Someone who is obviously willing to sacrifice his people to save his own sorry ass. What kind of Army shoots its own civilians to try to gain international pity and suppress uprisings that want rid of the oppresive regime of your idol? It obviously worked with you, but what of all the intelligent people in the world? Can they honestly be buying in to that?

It is NOT and HAS NEVER been the policy of the US or any other coalition member from this action or the previous action to inflict casualties or injuries on civilians. If your not intelligent enough to gather that, then there is not much hope for you. I honestly wish we had not gone to war. I wish the U.N. had decided to enforce its own resolutions. I wish the U.N. had not decided just to talk about it for a while and give the man time to prepare and hide the very weapons he isn't supposed to have to start with and ultimately decide to take no action while openly criticizing the people who did.

I have news for you dude, being in a position to effect change and deciding to take no action in the face of a clear and present danger in no way relieves you of the responsiblity of the outcome of your decision to take no action. We (the US and the UK) will take the brunt of the criticism and financial burden, but the U.N. let the U.S., the U.K., the people of Iraq and the rest of the world down in a big way with their unwillingness to enforce their own resolutions and their inablility and unwillingness to deal with an oppressive, genocidal, and openly hostile dictator in Iraq. I think we both know who the real criminal is here, and I'll be damned if I will sit and let someone bash the brave men and women of these two countries who were sent to do a difficult job in a difficult terrain at a difficult time for a people who don't have the ability to do it themselves.

Get a clue dude, or is he holding your family hostage and threatening to murder them if you don't post crap like this all over the internet? Whats next? You in line to do car bombings or human shield duty next? I can assure you he could care less. If your death bought him 5 more minutes in power, you would be dead.

just my $.02

So your point beeing that USA have the right too commit warcrimes because Iraq does??

~~SH4President~~ · Apr 1, 2003, 06:26 AM

The Washington Post on Tuesday published an account suggesting the troops failed to give enough warning. "You just [expletive] killed a family because you didn't fire a warning shot soon enough!" the paper's reporter quoted the unit's captain as yelling at the platoon leader.

An Army medic was quoted as saying later, "It was the most horrible thing I've ever seen, and I hope I never see it again."

source, CNN.com

Falstaff · Apr 1, 2003, 07:42 AM

you can believe what you want to believe...some of those vans have weapons, IRAQI's killing their own civlians, on tape man...this is like talking to Terek Aziz...

~~SH4President~~ · Apr 1, 2003, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fallang_jeff
you can believe what you want to believe...some of those vans have weapons, IRAQI's killing their own civlians, on tape man...this is like talking to Terek Aziz...

So your point beeing that USA have the right too commit warcrimes because Iraq does??

JavaFox · Apr 1, 2003, 11:11 AM

That wasn't a war crime. There is no legal basis for your accusation. The blood of those civilians is on Saddam Hussein's hands -- if he did not encourage suicide attacks of that nature, then there would be no reason to be on such a defensive. At any rate, SH, why don't you jump the fence at the closest military installation you can find. I don't know what country you live in, but there's little doubt in my mind that you'd be shot, too.

~~bluelight~~ · Apr 1, 2003, 12:02 PM

?

Bluelight

raid517 · Apr 1, 2003, 01:07 PM

Is everyone here drunk or something?

Q

Talicni_Tom · Apr 1, 2003, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JavaFox
That wasn't a war crime. There is no legal basis for your accusation. The blood of those civilians is on Saddam Hussein's hands -- if he did not encourage suicide attacks of that nature, then there would be no reason to be on such a defensive. At any rate, SH, why don't you jump the fence at the closest military installation you can find. I don't know what country you live in, but there's little doubt in my mind that you'd be shot, too.

typical brainless american thinking

~~SH4President~~ · Apr 1, 2003, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JavaFox
That wasn't a war crime. There is no legal basis for your accusation. The blood of those civilians is on Saddam Hussein's hands -- if he did not encourage suicide attacks of that nature, then there would be no reason to be on such a defensive. At any rate, SH, why don't you jump the fence at the closest military installation you can find. I don't know what country you live in, but there's little doubt in my mind that you'd be shot, too.

Shooting civilians(10 women and children) at point blank range no warcrime??
Are you getting short of arguments?
Why dont you accept that your brave US-soldiers f*****up?
They are so scared out there that they dont know what they are doing!!

~~SH4President~~ · Apr 1, 2003, 01:45 PM

By William Branigin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, April 1, 2003; Page A01

NEAR KARBALA, Iraq, March 31 -- As an unidentified four-wheel-drive vehicle came barreling toward an intersection held by troops of the Army's 3rd Infantry Division, Capt. Ronny Johnson grew increasingly alarmed. From his position at the intersection, he was heard radioing to one of his forward platoons of M2 Bradley Fighting Vehicles to alert it to what he described as a potential threat.

"Fire a warning shot," he ordered as the vehicle kept coming. Then, with increasing urgency, he told the platoon to shoot a 7.62mm machine-gun round into its radiator. "Stop [messing] around!" Johnson yelled into the company radio network when he still saw no action being taken. Finally, he shouted at the top of his voice, "Stop him, Red 1, stop him!"
That order was immediately followed by the loud reports of 25mm cannon fire from one or more of the platoon's Bradleys. About half a dozen shots were heard in all.

"Cease fire!" Johnson yelled over the radio. Then, as he peered into his binoculars from the intersection on Highway 9, he roared at the platoon leader, "You just [expletive] killed a family because you didn't fire a warning shot soon enough!"

So it was that on a warm, hazy day in central Iraq, the fog of war descended on Bravo Company.

Fifteen Iraqi civilians were packed inside the Toyota, officers said, along with as many of their possessions as the jammed vehicle could hold. Ten of them, including five children who appeared to be under 5 years old, were killed on the spot when the high-explosive rounds slammed into their target, Johnson's company reported. Of the five others, one man was so severely injured that medics said he was not expected to live.

source: washingtonpost.com

~~bluelight~~ · Apr 1, 2003, 02:13 PM

It is very simple...

There is a wear going on.

In it there has been suicide attacks.

In this war are participating....normal ordinary people....that got

scared...and killed civilians.....

No...this is not a war crime and would never be considered such in a court.

It is pure and simple...war.In war the majority that dies are civilians.

More of them will die before it is over.

Bluelight

~~SH4President~~ · Apr 1, 2003, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bluelight
It is very simple...

There is a wear going on.

In it there has been suicide attacks.

In this war are participating....normal ordinary people....that got

scared...and killed civilians.....

No...this is not a war crime and would never be considered such in a court.

It is pure and simple...war.In war the majority that dies are civilians.

More of them will die before it is over.

Bluelight

So you dont think its a warcrime too shoot women and children(all 5 under the age of 5) at point blank range??

~~ByteMe~~ · Apr 1, 2003, 02:44 PM

I for one think the less civilians the less problem we will have feeding them.

GOG · Apr 1, 2003, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ByteMe
I for one think the less civilians the less problem we will have feeding them.

LOL, you can't feed your own troops.

raid517 · Apr 1, 2003, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ByteMe
I for one think the less civilians the less problem we will have feeding them.

Lol ByteMe, so what do you think? Should we have extermination camps for the very people we are supposed to be trying to rescue?

Q

~~bluelight~~ · Apr 1, 2003, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ByteMe
I for one think the less civilians the less problem we will have feeding them.

Concentration camps maybe??

Editing .............didnt see your post before i wrote mine Raid...seems we wany to ask Mr Byte the same question...............

Bluelight

~~bluelight~~ · Apr 1, 2003, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fallang_jeff
Is this the American bashing thread...clearly, these IRAQI's were warned, obviously they forced the patrol to shoot, inevitably the denial of Husseins culpability is the matrix that remarks are built upon....Talicni_Tom your bias is noted,

Warned....as i read it today...they were not sufiicently warned.Your soldiers paniced and shot to fast.

This is what...your people...that were right on the spot says themselves.Among them a medic that said he had never seen anything like it.

But....it isnt a warcrime.Panic in war..is not a warcrime.It is panic...

Bluelight

JavaFox · Apr 1, 2003, 04:52 PM

I think it's really disturbing that you American detractors revel in this loss of human life. This is not something to point out and heckle Americans over as if it is some video game. Those were lives that were lost. Further, it's really hypocritical, I feel, how many of you are so appauled that people in a vehicle that charged a military checkpoint were shot is an atrocity, yet nobody here seems to find it very disturbing that the Iraqi government has been in clear violation of the Geneva Convention since the start of this war. The Red Cross is now reporting that while Americans have allowed access to Iraqi POWs, the Iraqis have yet to grant permission, which is a breach of international law.

Of course, I'm sure I'll just get answers like "Well, this war is in breach of in'tl law" or "the prisoners at Camp X-Ray aren't being treated well" as if this somehow excuses the Iraqis.

~~SH4President~~ · Apr 1, 2003, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JavaFox
I think it's really disturbing that you American detractors revel in this loss of human life. This is not something to point out and heckle Americans over as if it is some video game. Those were lives that were lost. Further, it's really hypocritical, I feel, how many of you are so appauled that people in a vehicle that charged a military checkpoint were shot is an atrocity, yet nobody here seems to find it very disturbing that the Iraqi government has been in clear violation of the Geneva Convention since the start of this war. The Red Cross is now reporting that while Americans have allowed access to Iraqi POWs, the Iraqis have yet to grant permission, which is a breach of international law.

Of course, I'm sure I'll just get answers like "Well, this war is in breach of in'tl law" or "the prisoners at Camp X-Ray aren't being treated well" as if this somehow excuses the Iraqis.

Excuse me, but the women and children(all5 under the age of 5) that were gunned down by ur US heroes today what have they done too deserve that??
Answer that question. Please answer that.
What have they done so wrong that justify for you americans too come too their country and kill them. Kill women and small children, what gives you the right too do that.
Please answer me that!
And you whining about soldiers that are paid and made a decision too invade another country not get too see the red cross!!!!

ToshiroOC · Apr 1, 2003, 05:20 PM

Life isn't fair for anyone, including women and children in the back of a truck driven by a madman. The need of the many outweights the need of the few - the few that will die in this war, deservedly or not, will be mourned, but the many will be much the better for it. And please restate that last sentence - it does not make sense. Javafox, you're going to like this one:

Answer ME this ONE question:

How does leaving Saddam Hussein in power promote peace and justice in the Middle East?

GOG · Apr 1, 2003, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JavaFox
I think it's really disturbing that you American detractors revel in this loss of human life. This is not something to point out and heckle Americans over as if it is some video game. Those were lives that were lost. Further, it's really hypocritical, I feel, how many of you are so appauled that people in a vehicle that charged a military checkpoint were shot is an atrocity, yet nobody here seems to find it very disturbing that the Iraqi government has been in clear violation of the Geneva Convention since the start of this war. The Red Cross is now reporting that while Americans have allowed access to Iraqi POWs, the Iraqis have yet to grant permission, which is a breach of international law.

Of course, I'm sure I'll just get answers like "Well, this war is in breach of in'tl law" or "the prisoners at Camp X-Ray aren't being treated well" as if this somehow excuses the Iraqis.

If your soldiers can't handle one car without killing the passengers, can you please explain to me how they will handle a city with almost 5.000.000 potentional suicide bombers? Is there one person in your government that have thought of these things?

1. You can't starve the Iraqi soldiers in Baghdad with a siege, though you will starve the civilians as well.

2. You can't start to bomb the whole city without massive civilian casualties.

3. You can't invade the city because you don't know who's your enemy.

GOG · Apr 1, 2003, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ToshiroOC
Life isn't fair for anyone, including women