Maddogg6

um.. that laws don't stop drugs from being made/distributed and used....

Calinerti

Gimmie a break man. Are you trying to tell me that countries with stricter gun regulations dont have less deaths per year as a result of firearms? Hey Sandok... how many deaths last year in Switzerland as a result of firearms?

The fact that laws are broken only harkens back to my previous post. There will always be crime. If I punch you in the head, a law is broken. If i put a bullet in your head, a law is broken. Choose. Or maybe I would choose. I would neither punch nor shoot. Maybe I would censor my behaviour for the good of all. Put it to a vote! Would you rather be punched in the head or shot in the head? Everyone has a fist. Not everyone has a gun. Pretend you are in charge and responsible for the safety of all, and that every life lost is accountable to you.

Maddogg6

Yes... Countries with gun controls have more deaths - US vs Russia on the MURDER chart I linked to is the evidence.
edit: so instead of a break - I gave you evidence - or is this meaningless to you that controls dont work.

But only crooks will have guns. Just like drugs are still available with existing drug laws. Is this that difficult to understand?

So - the reality is - if a crook has a gun - I would rather have one too.

If everyone had a gun - a crook is less likely to be one that confrontational /violent.
And I am thinking this way... your avoiding points I make with unfounded and known to be inncorrect scenarios.

Maddogg6

dbl post... ???

Sandok

Much less than the US….

Gun Homicide (per 100,000) in Switzerland per 100,000: 0.46
Gun Homicide (per 100,000) in USA per 100,000: 6.24

Switzerland: Opponents of gun control often use Switzerland as evidence that access to guns is not linked to crime or violence. They argue that since virtually all adult males are members of the army and have military weapons, there is nearly universal access to deadly weapons yet few gun-related problems in Switzerland. However, Swiss criminologist Martin Killias, of the Université de Lausanne, argues that the rate of households with firearms is actually comparable to that of Canada (27.2%). There is strict screening of army officers and ammunition is stored in sealed boxes and inspected regularly.

SFOSOK

Lets ban all guns!

Thats the answer to everything!


Whats that? Billy stabbed Lucy at school?
Ban Guns!
A fight breaks out after a sporting event?
Ban Guns!
I step on a fly?
Ban Guns!
I finally become an optimistic/feminist/scientoligist/catholic/wellfare bum?
Ban Guns!
I need to take a pee?
BAN GUNS!

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*Warning* - Explicit Content Preceeding

Maddogg6

So... no one has argued against; 'Russia has a HIGHER murder rate than US - and russia has gun controls' ...right?
Ok.... So - this means gun controls DO NOT GUARANTEE lower murder rates, and until a plan comes along that CAN GUARANTEE lower murder rates - Im keeping my guns thank you.

Its really a simple concept. Not sure why people struggle to understand this? (media brain washing I suppose or something)

Sandok

Dude that's what he asked, I showed him what he wanted...

As for Russian gun control, it's a joke from what I've read and heard but yes, they have something comparable to the US. But I'm not talking about Russia, I'm talking about CH and it's a perfect example of severe gun control and thus, damn low homicide results.

But apparently everyone sees what they wanna...

BlueMak

Guns are not banned in Greece (I think the same site says there are almost 6 mil guns among the population- not that it matters, though not as easy to get one as in the USA, still the rates are lower than say Switzerland. Why is that Sandok?

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"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,
You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis

Sandok

They're practically the same... And I didn't say guns are banned here either (do you read my posts?)

Switzerland in 1994 Firearm Homicide: 0.58
Greece in 1994 Firearm Homicide: 0.59

Well those numbers actually say Switzerland has less gun crime...

But let me just show you a wonderful table with lotsa gun crime statistics... You might notice the trend that countries with no guns have almost no gun crime (strange ) like Japan and Spain. Actually Switzerland is far from an ideal country when it comes to guns by those numbers!

BlueMak

those are from 1994.

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"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,
You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis

Sandok

Yes I said that in my post... 1994... Don't have more recent numbers...

Asmoday

Whoa in that chart Sweden has the lowest percentage, unfortunatly I don't believe it is anymore. We have pretty strict gun laws atleast when it comes to handguns, hunting rifles is another story though...
I haven't seen any updated numbers on gunrelated homicides in my country, but more and more are reported, so I doubt we are that low in the statistic anymore..

Vikingod

I agree and its a matter for debate that the presence of guns increases instances of violent crime. I think there was a report by Kellermen a number of years ago that the presence of a firearm in the home more than doubles the probability that you will become a victim of violent crime, though the report was highly scrutinized. It no secret (though denied too often) that guns are a problem, and that stuborness and a lack of education are really the core reasons the issue hasn't been dealt with properly.

In like however, the fact remains that more than 90% of crimes committed with guns that are unregistered, most of them with handguns. I don't agree with the US's gun control laws, and certainly not their enforcement of them. While I don't agree banning firearms is the solution, it is painfully obvious that guns are in the hands of people that can't handle it. Much more needs to be done to get the unregistered firearms out of peoples hands.

It's also my opinion that another problem with the US is that people view gun ownership as a "right". It should be a "privilage", not unlike being able to drive an automobile. The "holding period" that is instituted and the background check they perform is nothing more than the bare minimum that should be done to qualify someone to own a gun. If more were to be done on that front, the 10% that are performed with registered guns would dwindle. The defense that "its in the Constitution!" holds little water with me. The interpretation needs to be reassessed to meet todays world.

Guns used for sporting, such as shotguns and rifles, are pretty low risk and are the guns typically left with little regulation in countries. Handguns, semiautomatic and automatic rifles, etc. are the real problem. Of all the people I know that own a handgun, only one man actually uses it for sporting. I'm sure that many of the people who staunchly defend handguns don't make that association. Most people own handguns for "protection" (though the people I know don't conceal theirs). On that front, how is a handgun a better source of protection that a shotgun? I personally don't know anyone who has ever needed to use a gun for protection in the home. People should not be permitted to conceal them in public, IMO. Automatic weapons serve no purpose other than killing people. They shouldn't be manufactured (other than for military application, which should be highly regulated) and all should be destroyed.

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cozumel

Sandok: Welld done for finding that table - I've been looking for something similar that only included welth industrialized nations.

Tinkerhell, Maddaogg & others: US has by far the highest intentional gun deaths with firearms per 100,000 of the population. Is is double the rate of the next closest nation statistically. Perhaps you can see this as evidence of why changing the constitution and removing the right to bear arms is needed?? The evidence definitely indicate that deaths would be significantly reduced (at least halved)

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