The Iran Nuke Crisis ?

Maddogg6

That was an interesting read, but....

...its not really a case of if any one here is happy. We simply ask you to back up your position with more than generalized statements.
But I still would like to hear (what you have been taught) what has happened since then as well - maybe a more simpler 'readers digest version' with a link to your source.. ?? I guess I'm looking for what is others have been taught in different parts of the world.

I never had doubts antisemitism has existed since even before the middle ages. So its the 'since' part that has me more curious. Specifically with Muslim tensions. (edit: as well as pre WWI - WWII)

When all I said was:
So - I AM sincerely trying to understand where you are coming from and not arguing with you. But yes, your first draft came off a bit rough being so generalized - but I also seen the 'fix' too, so - we can move on now I hope.

Pompey

[COLOR=black]Sorry, I should have been more specific. I meant disarming Israel of its WMD's (I thought that since this topic was about WMD's people would know what I meant).[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]And I dont really want to get involved in a debate over Israel but calling it the Victim and the Arabs the bully is inaccurate. There have atrocities etc on both sides and if you read though the history some of Israel’s actions and decisions were socking. Neither side can claim the moral high ground.[/COLOR]

Sandok

Wait a second... What I just posted doesn't show hate againt them? I thought that's what Antisemitism was...

And yeah, I generalized a lot and wrote what I wanted badly because I say all over the world and then Europe. What I meant simply, if I can recitify (but I can't now because you guys all quoted me).

They are hated in Europe since the middle ages in...

I think that'd be much better. Of course this is still way too generalized but it's partly true (thus the reason for WW2).

Well what I've been taught is very little about them, especially since Jewish people are very very very very very rare around here. I've met plenty in the US but none in Europe...

Anyways, it's just that religious tension in between catholics and jews has existed long before WW2. There are engravings showing the murder and prosecution of Jews way into European middle ages, if not before (but I can't say because I never learnt any of that).

As for the "since", well I guess looking at the middle east still doesn't have me convinced everyone likes the jews. In europe there is still the vandalism of Jewish belongings (from graves to whatnot) so I can't considered their "hate" (too strong a word, I'd say dislike) completely forgotten.

I'm sorry I just generalize way too much because unlike you guys, I don't have much time to type out what I want... Tis a problem I know. Well, now that I finally took some time I hope it came out right.

SFOSOK

I'm not trying to attack you Sandok, I'm just getting really tired of your generalizations and the use of them as facts in which they are not.


But back on topic:

Something really bad will have to happen for all out war to occur (like a world war).

Sandok

So wait, my entire article about the Jews disliked (or hated) in Europe especially since the middle ages is all false? That there hasn't been antisemiteism since so long?

But yes, back on topic.

So somethign bad? I think that' already starting in the middle east... At least, the ingredients are already there.

cozumel

If my memory is correct, Israeli State was created by the League of Nations after WWII following terrorism from Jewish militias against British military rule (I think it was some kind of mandate or protectorate). I could be wrong though.

The League of Nations and the UN that followed must have been crazy to think that this solution was satisfactory. To totally wipe a nation (Palestine) off the earth to create another quite simply because the world felt guilty for allowing genocide to take place was foolish to say the least. There are tens of thousands of civilian casualties as a result. Would 9/11 have happened if this decision hadn't been taken? The ripples that spread out from the formation of Israel in such a foolhardy way are felt all round the world 60 years later.

And to keep on-topic: America and its allies should stay well away from Iran and let Israel do what they will do....
Every Arab nation will (secretely) be thankful if Israel act on accurate intelligence and strike against any nuclear capable military installations.

Maddogg6

Seems your memory served you well on this.
According to this - it was their declaration of independence.
But I guess (that linked article) also explains why the line is blurred between Israel and Judaism.
Maybe I keep forgetting not all gov'ts have a separation of church and state. I was taught; historically, without this separation at some level, will fail miserably when political and economic decisions are based largely on religious agenda. (and now with emphasis on world economy, I would think this becomes even more significant. ??)

Its not too hard to see how people who are emotional dont always make the best decisions, and theres plenty emotion behind religious views from what I see. Its looking like history is well on its way of repeating itself.

I find it sad people still kill people over differences in religious views, and seems are the same people who demand tolerance here in the US. Now I wonder what level of 'tolerance' they would expect? 'tolerate anything we do, and to speak out against makes you prejudice or a heathen' ..???

Pompey

My understanding was that there were several attempts by the British etc to divide Palestine, but of course the Palestinians rejected them. Then as soon as the mandate ended they declared their own state.
Then they started clearing Palestinian villages on the road between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem so that the food supply to the jews of Jerusalem couldn’t be cut off. The Palestinians were obviously very nervous (and in some cases hostile). Jewish forces attacked a village (Dir Yassin I think, but I cant remember the spelling) for no apparent reason and when the survivors fled to Jerusalem the Palestinian leaders exaggerated the incident claiming that women had been raped. Hundreds of thousands of palliations fled in fear at this report and settlers moved in and occupied their homes and settlements refusing to let the refugees back.

Although religion was a main justification for the creation of Israel, the conflict is over land not religion.

cozumel

Agreed, land is the illness while religion is the symptom. Just to clarify, I have no issue with the creation of an independent Jewish state. The problem I have is that another sovereign state was erased in order to do this, and no thought or provision was created to look at the future of the Palestinian peolple. The result; 60 years later there are illegal killing by Israelis on Palestinians and vice versa, atrocities going on in every country around the world (Bali, Madrid, Kenya, New York, Beirut & civil war etc) where the origins of the incidents go back to the creation of Israel.

Even the concern over Iran nuclear capability may not have been such a problem without this fundamental issue remaining unsolved. This is where it takes Russia, France, USA & UK to bite the bullet. Those four countries were and are primarily responsible for the creation of this mess and continuing chaos. They were happy to pass resolutions benining 1917. They still have the power to do something but instead all they do is provide military equipment, advice & support to one side or the other and deny responsibility. Shame on them (me actually)

Pompey: You're making me want to google this as its 30 years or so since I looked at the history in any detail.

REGENERATION

Sadly the Persians are not that evil like everyone is thinking. Believe me or not, but there are still Jews in Iran. The main problem with Iran is their government and the extremists that raised in the last twenty years. However, since Iran’s president is calling upon the destruction of Israel and threatens the western world as well, Iran is a global threat. That guy is trying to be Hitler, denies the Holocaust and want to destroy an entire nation. Therefore, that guy is a walking time-bomb and he must be stopped along with his friends.

Iran’s Nuclear program must be stopped at all costs. We can’t let these insane extremists to have a mass-destruction weapon! They are providing weapons to terrorists groups, and the next suicide bombing attack could be a nuclear one. Iran is acting like Hitler and Nazi-Germany from the 2nd World war. We need to prevent the second Holocaust/3rd world war from happening, and we need to give an example to all these Hitler fans out there. This is simply amazing how the world and the UN never learn from the history.

HawgsHead

nuclear warheads....droped outta the belly of 4 B1B's at 30,000 feet with each having a 50,000 kiloton yield... Israel kicks ass!God bless the Jewish people.

Reckless187

I agree with your comment...so long as you're strapped to one of them.