Dowaco

I was responding to comments about military deaths not all Americans who died. Being in the military can be dangerous no matter who is president but more died under Regan and Bush Sr than under Bush Jr. (These are deaths from all causes but the media does not report when a soldier dies from a heart attack while training for example.)

We are in Iraq because the weak kneed UN refused to back up its sanctions against Saddam. The whole world thought Iraq had WMDs because Saddam acted like he did have them. No lies were necessary. Saddam's refusal to allow inspections were all that was required for military action by a coalition of forces. We are staying for the humanitarian purpose of keeping the country together while a government is formed and in our own interest for the future stability of the region.

The economy is a juggernaut. Nobody (except maybe the ex fed chairman Alan Greenspan) can claim to turn the economy in a matter of a few years. Every president takes credit for it if it goes up and take heat if it goes down but its more likely that whatever sent its momentum turning happened ten years earlier.
As for war invigorating the econony... I think we just hit an all time high in the stock market a few weeks ago, so I'd say it was boosted. In the last 5 years the Dow went from 7500 to over 12700 and the Nasdaq more than doubled. Far from pitiful.
And how did Bush screw up the economy exactly? He inherited an artificial bubble that broke in 2001 and now its back to better than it was in 1999-2000.

As for sex in the US, we may be prudes compared to the rest of the world. But so what. Every country has its own culture and the leader of that country had better reflect that culture or be subjected to criticism. Saying what Clinton did is OK is fine in an abstract sense, but we do have laws concerning sexual harassment, discrimination, and rape. Saying that his sex was consensual is pushing it. The most powerful man on the planet does not hear the word no from an intern. And Monica did not have the balls to initiate anything. He was the aggressor.

The Middle East has been a mess for the last 50 years. I see more reason for hope now than I did 20 years ago or 10 years ago. Somebody is actually doing something different. The endless peace talk process was a sham because none of the players have ever negotiated in good faith. Well, they got the power to negotiate taken away and now they have to play by different rules. We will see how that goes.

I still don't get why the world hates us. The"world" wanted Saddam to disclose his weapons, he did not, the UN balked at enforcing it own rules and the US bravely stepped up and tried to build a coalition. The "world" should have put its fist where its mouth is and stood up to tyranny and terrorism. Appeasement did not work with Hitler and it would not have worked here and once again US troops suffer for the "worlds" folly.

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The above is my opinion and in no way reflects the views of this website.

cozumel

Heavily biased American and Western Government policies have eroded the stability of the Middle East for years. US and the West couldn't even recognise a democratically elected government in the PA (Hamas). You either support democracy or you do not.

US, Britain and other allies began an illegal war in Iraq for two reasons: Oil and regime change. The Baath party in Iraq should never be compared to the Nazis. Iraq did not have any policy in place to eradicate a race of people from the globe. Neither were there any plans for Iraq expansion throughout the world. Iraq posed no military threat to the UK or US except to oil supplies and the economy. The military power (in size and tech prowess) of the Iraqi army was negligible when compared to US forces. There is no 'bravery' in attcking and overcoming others that are considerably weaker. It's similar to schoolyard bullying by picking on the weakest.

N Korea does pose a threat to world peace that could directly threaten US citizens on home soil but America and its allies are not prepared to show the same 'bravery' by an invasion and regime change. N Korea (backed by China) are too strong huh? Guess they can't be bullied....

To stay on topic: I was amused by Clintons and Obamas attendance at race march anniversaries in Alabama. I cannot comprehend how Clinton possibly understand with how it feels to be black and continually judged on you skin color. Things have changed but [hidden & overt] racism still runs below the surface. Look at what happened in New Orleans & the treatment of black people by government. The newspaper reports were biased too: If a white person took food from a New Orleans store it was to feed themselves, but if a black person did the samething it was reported as looting and they should be shot.

Vote Obama. America needs Obama.

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Sandok

I don't think think you can simply exclude the 911 deaths, given that because of poor intelligence handling, it happened. Military speaking, yes you are ready to have casualties but the number could have been far smaller if the US didn't set off the time bomb in Iraq.

And if ever, under CLinton, 7500 soldiers didn't die, instead, "only" 4417 died.

Have you been in the rest of the world during the past four years (or more importantly, before the iraq war?!) The UN sent their inspectors, found nothing. The world didn't agree with the US to go to war (the reason you were all alone) and many countries like Germany, Italy, UK, France (freedom fries anyone?) refused to validate your war in any way or fashion.

And you are staying there to keep the country together? Because of you, people in that region are living in worse condition than when they had a dictator. They have no jobs, no schools, fear and panic and curfews. You are simply staying there because you now don't have much choice anymore. The only real reason now is oil and american influence in the middle (as if that'll ever work).

How did he screw up the economy? The US as you must know, is one of the few countries in the world that has more imports than exports. Sure your stock have risen (hell the whole world has seen record stock prices) but the most important aspect of your countries economy, the value of the $ has dropped to record lows and stayed down. Techincally, my currency to yours was that one $ made 1.5-1.6 CHF. Now it's 1.1-1.2 and has been for a year... That's horrendous and it's impacting your import power, which again, is crucial for the US.

Hahaha you guys ain't prudes, just hypocrites You guys have hte world's porn in your backdoor nonetheless, if you need to be reminded And he was an agressor? Oh please, some women WANT to sleep with "the most powerful man on the planet", because hell, that's quite something. No country allows harassment, discrimination or rape but you do take it to far. I used to live in the US and on the surface, you guys are prudes yet you are one of the only countries where virginity is lost before 15 on average and as I said, lotsa porn Personally, I find what Bill did hardly constitues as something horrible, and he wasn't the only president. Kennedy and Monroe rumors have also been around, it's nothing new.

How can the middle east be the same as NOW and BEFORE? Now they have secterian violence and more deaths than ever before. Now they have hate for the US when before, they actualy apreciated you. Now they are pushing for nuclear weapons because the US is threatening that region of the world.

Over the last 10 years, it's gone to hell that part of the world and well, if you find it "good", I really don't know what else to say

The world didn't really care for saddam. Hell, he was closer to Europe than the US but we didn't really want to go, bomb his country, destroy his people, hang him in public and take over.

America's agenda isn't the same as the world's, so I fail to see why we should put our fist in our mouth. We didn't want Iraq and you to go to war, given that NO country agreed to help with the invasion. ANd now that any country tries, we get bombed by terrorists (Madrid, London) and get anti war protests. This is America's mess.

As for the "tyranny and terrorism", yes Saddam was wrong but there was far worse than him in the world. Anyways, now there is more terrorism in the region than ever before and the US only went to war when THEY wanted it. Russia had asked for years of help with Chechnya but the US turned a blind eye back then... And the WW2 comparison is just weak, given that we were the ones fighting from the beginning, we didn't "appease" him. The US would never have gotten involved if not for Pearl Harbor and the crucial difference you fail to see is that the US was "wanted" back then and "loved" for their help. That is far from being the case right now

Dowaco

Tell that to the Kurds and Kuwait and Saudi Arabia

Tell the US and UK soldiers and their families that they are not brave.
Iraq was not the weakest army in the world. Rather, they were the 4th largest. I see it more like a policeman taking out a dangerous thug. What nobody seems to remember is that when the war started, everybody thought there were WMDs. Given that SCUD missiles were used in the previous war, delivering warheads to allied targets was a very real threat.

I support regime change in Korea and Iran.

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The above is my opinion and in no way reflects the views of this website.

Dowaco

That number is in just 4 years (1993-1996), not 8.

The UN inspectors were given the run around and were never allowed to go where they wanted. Sdaddam made it look like he was hiding something. Maybe he was.
UK refused to validate? They were with us from the beginning. Prince William is in Iraq right now. Nobody expected France to do anything. Rumor has it that they were selling arms to Iraq. Rather than not validating the war, those countries backed the US in spirit. It would have been nice to see more support. Has there been a condemnation of the US by the UN? No.

To each his own. But I respect my wife and my family and I expect my leaders to be good people, and not sex crazed lying perverts. 14 year olds think with their penis, world leaders should not.


That part of the world has been hell for longer than 10 years. The hate and violence has been going on for centuries going back to the crusades. Changing the way thinks work there can only be good.


First of all. The UN started this by rightfully challenging Saddam. Then they backed down while the US continued forward. In the wake of 9/11 the climate was primed for more military action. Secondly, It is not correct to say that NO country agreed to help. And most importantly, how can you say that Iraq was not a terror threat when you admit that terrorists attack countries that help the US. That should be proof that we are doing the right thing.

Far worse? Like who?
More terrorism in that region is fine for now if less there is less terrorism here at home. And that has been the case.
My WWII reference might be a stretch but I maintain that the world did nothing to stop Hitler until it was too late. Saddam was no Hitler and there are no Nazis in Iraq but a dictator out of control was stopped before he could cause more damage.

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The above is my opinion and in no way reflects the views of this website.

Yousaif

Interesting you think that you were over the top on that point. Saddam's ruling party (the Baath party) was strongly influenced in the 1930's and 1940's by Hitler and the Nazi movement.

Please see Ruling party learned from Nazis for the full text of the article that I have quoted below (edited for length).

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Yousaif


Isaiah 1:23

cozumel

While the policies of Saddam Hussein caused the torture, misery and death of many he never had a policy of genocide. I made that statement as you had incorrectly compared his policies with those of Hitler and the Nazi party.



I never said that individual allied soldiers or thier familes were not brave. I blieve that they mostly act with courage, honour and dignity but sadly receive their commands from cowardly politicians. I stated that America & UK were acting like cowards by picking on the weak and avoiding the strong like N Korea (Chinese backed) for example



I too would like to see regime change in many countries including the US. I do not agree with regime change by military force (except in extraordinary circumstances). Self-determination by the citizens of a country should be the only way that regime change should come about. We should be encouraging democracy. Instead we show everything that is foul and corrupt in democracy, invade their homeland and expect them to embrace us. Who do we think we are kidding?

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cozumel

The recent increase in terrorism (London, Madrid etc) has been caused by intervention in Iraq, which is pretty good evidence that the world is not safer. (What about the recent plot that has stopped you being able to take liquids on planes?) The problems in the Middle East since WWII were caused by the US & European powers having policies that are biased and have been for 60 years. IMO the origin of most terrorist activities in the region are as a direct result of this bias. In Palestine for example, this prevented a proud nation and its people from being able to have any level of dignity, freedom or self determination. Even if you have a free democratic vote in Palestine, America won't recognise it!!!

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Sandok

Woops my bad, sorry...

Yeah they weren't allowed exactly what they wanted but still came to the conclusion that nothing posed a threat.

And what do you mean the UK was with you from the beginning? The intial strike force was all American and the US and Spain only helped after the first strikes were done. In afghanistan and iraq, they went as peace keepers. Though now, Spain has pulled out a long time ago and as for the brits, they're pulling out all their troops by august... Ouch.

And as for condeming the US, the veto system in place guarentees you can't be touched, which imho, is a major flaw in the system.

Not everyone has great marriages and perfect lives you know... Sex is a natural human action, don't see what's so crazed about it. Honestly, affairs and cheating are bad yes, but you guys take it out of proportion because of american "tabooniss".

Again, yes it's had troubled times since always but two major events have happened in the past 50 years, both american caused which have made it FAR worse. Firstly the placement of Israel and giving them enough arms to blow half the world up. Secondly the iraqi war which has caused secterian violence which never existed before. So how can it be the same as before?

That's the thing, they didn't "back down" as you so put it, they concluded nothing needed to be done. That they didn't have to spill blood over nothing. The US continued and look at the mess they are in now.

Again, no country agreed to help initially with the real "war" part and now, most countries have pulled out anyways. And why does terrorist bombing in London or Madrid have anything to do with Iraq? You make the link but can't it be that destroying one of the most religious islamic states in the region have caused more terrorism than it removed? It's a backlash to countries that weren't in danger anyways.

Far worse? North Korea anyone? (they have nukes if ever... )

And more terrorism there is fine? There was ONE terrorist attack in your country, one attack and for that, your president has killed over a 60 000 innocent civilians (and of course bad guys too), creating a religious crusade against you and putting the world in danger? Are you crazy in saying "better them than us"?

No the world tried to do plenty to stop Hitler, except hte US. When Europe was demolished after WW1 and Germany making a come back, Europe needed help that the US simply didn't supply because "it's not our problem". If the US had been there from the beginning, nothing would have happened, so don't say the world when it wasn't there to do anything. Europe was destroyed from head to toe with millions dead, what you want them to do?

Yousaif

There you go. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't. You claim that we didn't do enough post WWI. Now here we are trying to DO SOMETHING and you complain that we shouldn't be doing it.

Which one is it?

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Yousaif


Isaiah 1:23

Sandok

Just because last time you didn't react fast enough doesn't mean this time you should have reacted at the first sniff of danger.

History doesn't always repeat itself.... Honestly, do you consider the war in Iraq a success? Do you find it worth the lives of your soldiers? Because I sincerly don't see what's gotten better in Iraq after American intervention.