Norman Mailer...sees it like this..

~~bluelight~~ · Mar 22, 2003, 04:46 PM

Falstaff · Mar 23, 2003, 01:11 AM

I know you might not agree, but I often have wondered myself if Pres. Bush is trying to polarize american thinking in a more conservative direction. I have often wondered if our country, known for some flexibility as well as painful growth, has been seen by the GOP as losing some moral authority because of our behaviour..Personally, I think it's just alot easier to see our value system eroded on television now. I don't think people have changed all that much in oh, 7500 years, we still suffer from the same problems and attempt to deal with them with a variety of methods....without being too general. Invading and suppressing a government that we don't like is nothing new...now I believe we just have to find new ways of dealing with the problem, because we are part of a social compact that promises much and delivers very little (U.N.), because we ourselves refuse to "lay all our cards on the table"...
Am I a BUSHITE, yes, I am a christian and have an entrenched value system based on my faith, but I will not cast the first stone....
I still believe that we should have found more creative ways to deal with Saddam Hussein, but then the point is moot,

~~bluelight~~ · Mar 23, 2003, 02:47 AM

Well one very common arguments among conservative americans that hate being part of the international community is

What did the UN do in Rwanda??Why did they do nothing?

I get served this every day from these people.

The question reveals both ignorance and a total lack of history going later back than one week.

Yes....Rwanda happened.....The UN ...were not present.......Why were the UN NOT present??!!

Well...none of the major powers that are members of the U N had any interests whatsoever going to Rwanda.....

Everytime i have been presented the "Rwanda argument" i have asked these peole:

Show me any document whatsoever ...where USA is asking the UN tro do something about Rwanda...

So far nobody has presented such a document...Why?...because there is none.-

Usa,Russia,China,France did were not interested...

Rwanda was of NO strategic or economic interest.

Thats why.

The only two countries that had any presence whatsoever as i remeber was Canada (in the shape of UN) and France.None of them had enough people to do anything about what was going on.

So when i hear americans attack the UN as if it was a nation with a military force for doing nothing....i ask myself how far can ignorance go?

The UN is what the members make it.

And...you current government isnt interested.

Simple.

Bluelight

Falstaff · Mar 23, 2003, 03:02 AM

the apology by Clinton, and the definition of genocide...I recall the torture of tthe Begium peacekeepers, and the French pull out as well, 500,000 dead....I understood that the the Mogedishu debacle and the Rangers that were trapped and finally rescued formed a stigma around intervening in tribal warfare in Africa, I was disgusted with Clinton then and I am disgusted with him now...but what can I say, I didn't vote for him. The most terrible thing were the U.N. personel there hiding while the terrible killings began....I know the French governmnet reexamined their role in the future as well...

~~bluelight~~ · Mar 23, 2003, 03:18 AM

Goin off topic now....I see you are into Zappa.

Cool.Saw him in Stockholm..something like 88...Did a version of Zeppelens Stairway to heaven and Beatles I am the Walrus...Hilarious...and really rally good.

The Grand Wazoo is one of my favourites.

Bluelight

Falstaff · Mar 23, 2003, 10:51 AM

Overnight sensation/weasels ripped my flesh/Apostrphe, some of my favorite albums, Joes Garage was too wierd, but it rocked, ha ha....I wonder what Norman Mailer thinks about the Americans executed after being captured, sheesh...Saddam told his troops to honor the Geneva Convention and protect the captured troops....I wonder if Saddam is alive? during the Iraq and Iran war, Saddams generals and field commanders started acting independently, and they made some significant progress.....before they were all shot....War is Hell

~~bluelight~~ · Mar 23, 2003, 11:06 AM

Are you talking about those killd in Somalia....or have the Iraq`is captured and executed Americans??

I heard the Iraq`s would consider any captured soldiers as "illegal soldiers" .......But theres so much talk right now and if half of it is true....

Bluelight

Falstaff · Mar 23, 2003, 11:12 AM

I managed to overhear that the some IRAQI units may be targeting captured americans for televised executions, to empower Muslims all over the world, like the fellow that lost his mind in the 101st airborne field camp earlier.....Now that the media is embedded with these units, we will have to embrace the terrible aspects of war......

~~bluelight~~ · Mar 23, 2003, 12:29 PM

Saw about it Jeff.No they will not execute anyone.They rely to heavily on getting an image as "good guys".

They cant execute them and personally i dont think they want to.

They will use them to show them up to modify the image of how sucessful everything is and also as a means of telling Us and British soldiers that they are...in fact risking something.

That is the game they will play.A media game.In a war that is already a media war to some extent.

It still is outrageous that this is actually happening.....

Bluelight

Falstaff · Mar 23, 2003, 05:55 PM

THAT THE MEDIA IS BEING USED BY BOTH SIDES AS A WEAPON FOR AND AGAINST PUBLIC OR WORLD OPINION...sorry, caps button stuck....got to stop snacking when I post, ha ha