thegoldenstrand

Year ago I heard of Islam being called the nation of Islam.

In watching world events, it appears it might be more nation than religion.

What is the purpose of Muslims lobbying for Sharia law in various nations they were at one time just new immigrants to who wanted to have the freedom to practice their religion in?

Anyone know much about Islam and its objectives as a Nation without borders and as a religion?

Also.. Is there any support for the various writings of its scriptures that contradict the writings found in the various writings of the Jewish Old Testement books or Christian New New Testament books?

I have heard Muslims claim to be descended from Abraham. Since Islam began over six hundred years after Christianity and a few thousand years after Abraham walked the earth,is there any record that supports this?

Also.. with so much evidence that Jesus died on a Cross and rose from the dead, how is it that Islam can teach He did neither?

Just wondering..

Falstaff

The prophet Muhammed surely would have been amazed at how much of the world is divided on racial, religious and economic boundries, and no one form of ISLAM has polarized the muslim community, but it must be said that for every tolerant muslim there is a tolerant christian, and for every intolerant muslim there is an intolerant christian, all willing to die for their beliefs or with courage even live for their beliefs.
If this world had no religion to fight over, would we not still be a spiritual people? I believe that a future major conflict is inevitable between those that support ISLAM and the JUDEO CHRISTIAN nations, I would only hope the battlefield is not completely covered with the bodies of the sons and daughters of their respective faith, but it appears to be so, if not in this century, soon the JIHAD that radical Muslims were praying for will come, and I wonder if they will sacrifice their children and families to win their theological struggle, I hope not.

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Pompey

From what I understand there is a greater sense of brotherhood in Islam and there is a movement to establish a global caliphate (sp?)
I dont know much about it, but it is suppose to include all lands where Muslims are a majority and any land that has at any point in time been controlled by Muslims (unsurprisingly, Muslims can conquer other people but Muslims being conquered is wrong).

Abram and Ibrahim (the Islamic name) are essentially two different versions of the same guy. One of the major differences is that in Islam god commands Abram to settle in Mecca instead of Canaan. I guess its just as likely as the Christian version.
I think Muslims still regard Jesus as a prophet. They have a different accound of jesus crusifiction. Its just they think god sent Mohammed after him and according to Islam, Mohammed was just restoring the faith of Ibrahim when he "founded" Islam because Judaism and Christianity had become corrupt.


I think I learned all random crap from that from bits of the inside Islam series that screened ages ago on the history channel.
Why do i remember everything i dont need to remember anf forget what I need to know?

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Dowaco

It is hard to put yourself in other people shoes when you have a totally different worldview. I think to a Muslim, nation and religion are the same and yet there are some sects of Muslims who call for the extermination of other sects and or the extermination of other whole nations or entire religions. While practicing what you preach is not a strong point of any religion as far as I can tell, it is almost unthinkable for a Christian or a Jew to advocate the destruction of an entire civilization. The problem is that in the western world, while Chirstianity is practiced by its citizens and rulers, the nations and governments are ruled by a more earthly set of laws.
So Islam rails against the West for its religious beliefs, but the West opposes those nations who happen to practice Islam not based on faith, but on international law.

As I see it, the Western Nations have developed a system where Religion and State are separate (you can debate the finer points of this) and the Middle East has not.

Historically, the US has been in disputes or even wars with nations that are Atheistic (Soviet Union), Muslim (Iraq, Iran, etc), Christian (England, Germany, Spain, Mexico, Cuba, Italy), Buddhist (N. Korea). So I don't see the US as picking on any one religion.

Falstaff

I agree, I think the US has reaped the whirlwind..

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Pompey

I also want to say that although I dont agree with many of the actions of the united states, claiming that the terrorist attacks of 9/11 and 7/7 are similar to US wars and policy is ridiculous.

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zaim

I'm Muslim.. I just happen to be it, but i rarely practice it. I follow some main rules like not to eat pork/bacon etc, any meat from the Pig.

But I don't fast, though I should. But that's for me to decide I guess as an individual

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ZzzombieBunny

I think the fundamental differences between Islam and Christianity on Jesus is the idea of Jesus being the son of god.

Christians believe that Jesus was the son of god, Muslims (which do consider Jesus a prophet) however believe that Jesus cant be the son of god because a god cant have a son who is also a god.

For an atheist like myself it can seem really flabbergasting that actually wars and millions have died due to the above dilemma. Especially considering both Christians and Muslims (as well as jews) basically worship the same one god, but all disagree on exactly "how" that god should be worshiped and his words intercepted.

Personally I dont really see much difference between religion and nation nowdays. Whats that it says on the dollar bill "One nation under god". *sigh*

Sandok

Boy oh boy did that make me laugh!!!

And every religion wants to be a nation as you described it mate... If they could, religions would want people everywhere to follow THEIR rules and read THEIR books. Tis the whole POINT of religion... Convert!

Majid

It seems that most of the people replying know little about Islam. I’m not a scholar and I don’t claim to know all the answers, but I’m a practicing Muslim and I’ll try my best to answer some of the points that were raised (in the original question).

First, I would like to clarify that the nation of Islam is not Islam. The nation of Islam is a recent political\religious movement that started in the US in the mid 1900’s by a man called Elijah Muhammad. The founders and followers of this group are predominantly African Americans that found peace in Islam because it preached equality among all races in a time when African Americans were oppressed in the United States.


Islam is a religion founded about 1400 hundred years ago by the Arabic prophet Mohammad peace be upon him. Mohammad (PBUH) received a revelation from God Almighty (the Arabic word for God is Allah), which is the Holy Quran. The Quran confirms the previous revelations from God and testifies that all the prophets of God (Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ishmail, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Jonah, Moses, David, Solomon, Jesus, …etc. peace be upon them all) preached the same message from the same source (God), but some of the scripts were lost and/or changed by man. Muslims believe that Quran is the final revelation from God, and the Quran assures Muslims that God Himself will preserve this revelation. Up to this day, no other version of the Quran has circulated and the original revelation is still recited among Muslims in its original language (Arabic). This is not to be confused with translations of the Quran into other languages, since numerous scholars have translated the Quran into many languages, with different choices of words.


As for Islamic law, Sharia, Muslims believe that it is the law to be used amongst Muslims. This is something widely misunderstood, even by some Muslims. Sharia is not intended to be the law for non-Muslims, it wouldn’t make sense. Non-Muslims in Muslim countries (not necessarily the concurrent ones) used to have their own courts with their own laws for their local issues, and it was approved by the Muslim rulers. Even the prophet Mohammad (PBUH) was asked by the Jews at that time to resolve a conflict amongst them and he ruled from their Torah since that’s what they believed in.


Sharia determines the Islamic laws of conduct and rules for conflicts. Muslims are required to abide by Sharia (not impose it on non-Muslims) if possible because Islam considers the Sharia laws to be the best laws given to humanity, since they are considered to be from the Creator. As for Muslims in non-Muslim countries (and in Muslim countries), they are required to obey the law of their country or the ruler as long as it gives them religious freedom (i.e. religious practice, not necessarily Islamic law), and does not force them to commit unlawful acts. If they are not given religious freedom or forced to disobey critical Islamic teachings, they should not retaliate, but try to migrate to another place where they have more freedom. If they are not given freedom and are unable to migrate, then they should be patient and God will forgive them. Sharia is not to be confused with politics, which is a different subject. There are many schools of thought in politics (as in Sharia) in Islam, just as there are everywhere else, and Islam does not clearly specify a political system (to the best of my knowledge), but rather leaves it to the people to decide what’s best for them (e.g. choosing a ruler - forming a government system).


Moving to you next point, Islam is not a nation in a political sense. Islam is a religion that encourages unity among its followers. Some may argue that this means nation, but the Quran uses the word “Ummah”, which doesn’t literally mean nation. Islam encourages its followers to care about each other, to help one another in good, and to prevent whoever commits evil, but it absolutely forbids its followers to fight each other. Islam also forbids its followers from initiating wars or violence. Obviously, Muslims are allowed to protect themselves against attack, but not to start violence, especially if there is a treaty, like the current sovereignty of countries.


Regarding the origin of Muslims, Islam is a universal message, and Muslims are not from one descent. I know that you mean Arabs, but you must understand that not all Arabs are Muslims, and Muslim Arabs are about one fifth of the total world’s Muslim population. As for Arabs, they are a Semitic race that descends from Sam (or Shem), one of Prophet Noah’s (PBUH) sons. Ishmael (PBUH), Abraham’s (PBUH) oldest son is the grandfather of prophet Mohammad (PBUH), but Ishmael (PBUH) lived and intermarried with Arabic tribes and became an Arab. In fact, many Arabic tribes are not original Arabs, but became Arabs. Today, the definition of an Arab has changed; everyone who speaks Arabic in his mother tongue is considered an Arab. As for records supporting prophet Mohammad’s (PBUH) ancestry from prophet Abraham (PBUH), Arabs take pride in keeping good records of lineage, and prophet Muhammad’s (PBUH) tribe, Quraish, was a very well known and influential tribe, and there are records (even by Mohammad’s (PBUH) enemies) that trace the prophet Mohammad’s (PBUH) lineage to prophet Abraham (PBUH).


Finally, prophet Jesus (PBUH) is glorified in the Quran, and is said to be amongst those closest to God in the here after. Many of his miracles are confirmed in the Quran, including his miraculous birth (virgin birth), speaking as an infant, healing the blind and the sick with God’s permission, raising the dead with God’s permission, and other miracles which I don't recall. The Quran, however, tells us that Jesus (PBUH) is neither the son of God, nor is he God incarnate, and that he never preached this. It also tells us that the people at his time tried to crucify him, but God saved him and raised him, and he was not crucified nor was he killed, but it appeared to the people that he was. Although some Muslims try to explain or give theories of what happened, the Quran doesn’t go into details on what exactly happened or how God saved him. As for evidence, I have heard Muslims argue about Biblical evidence supporting Islam’s point of view, but I will not go into them because they may cause controversy and there are other verses in the Bible that don’t agree with the Quran. Some also challenge historical evidence as being influenced by the state that presumably crucified him. We may go on discussing this point without reaching an agreement since both of us are biased with our preconceived knowledge and faith. So in summary, I have given you the Quran’s point of view, you can look into it, then accept it or reject it.


Sorry for typing a long reply, but people have written books to answer some the questions you have raised. Again, my reply is to the best of my knowledge, so I apologize if I had made any mistakes, God knows best. I also apologize if I have offended anyone for this is not my intension.


Salam Alaikom (Peace be upon you).

SFOSOK

No, it is not the point of religion to convert. You confuse fanatacism with religion and generalize them as the same so you don't actually have to prove you point.

Edit: Moved to a new thread for discussion

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