why do humans need religion?

Al_Vampyre

I certainly didn't intend to attack religion per se, I have no qualms about your or any one elses religious beliefs and I certainly don't think I'm superior in any way (except the obvious one). My own parents are deeply religious and I was brought up to be so, I still hugely admire their faith and understand that it helps them to explain the inexplicable and comforts them when the need arises but I don't feel that is my path. To them, it has value right there and I have no doubt brings happiness to their lives, which is great (and which they richly deserve I hasten to add!). I just feel that the path they walk is not the one for me, I don't need to believe that there is a grand design or that everything in life happens for a reason, I just need to live my life, as best I can, knowing full well that this is the only one I have and it "ain't no dress rehearsal"

I am a biological entity, my purpose, if any, is to add diversity to the gene pool, to give my progeny and the world they live in the best possible chance of survival. After I die my body will nourish the earth and maybe aid the survival of something/someone that comes after me, I am animal but I am also advanced enough to think, to question, and that is why this discussion is even happening, thats why religion exists because at some point we evolved far enough to question our existence, its still something that baffles science and probably will for many years to come so man looked for a way of making sense of it all and decided that the only explanantion that fits is that there is someone controlling it all.

If that makes people happy then thats fantastic, I'm all for people being happy, it just seems to me that answering a difficult question with an imponderable is overly convenient. For me it feels like an answer for the sake of having an answer whereas for me I don't need an answer, I'm here - thats all that really matters.

BlueMak

I haven't read the whole thread. I am just going to post some thoughts of mine.

First of all I want to differentiate (spelling?) between Religion and Belief in something "superior".


For me, Religion is something created for two reasons mainly, one to find a way to feel closer to the "superior" force and that human can communicate with this force, thus giving more power to the human since the human feels that if he is capable of communicating in any way with the force, it makes him acquire a bit of that power and feels a bit safer for it.
Two, a way for humans to acquire power/control over other humans.


People feel the need to believe in something cause it makes them feel safer and gives them hope, for the present or the future. Also, depending on the belief, it can help give them some answers, to some basic quetions about life and death.
In general, my view is that religion is not very helpful, though it doesn't mean it is always harmful either, but, humans do not need it, but they are addicted to it at some level.


Before anyone asks, I am not christian or atheist etc. I believe in the Olympic gods, though it is not as you might imagine it.

Falstaff

There are two broad groups of theories about the origin of religion. Faith based: According to David Barrett et al, editors of the "World Christian Encyclopedia: A comparative survey of churches and religions - AD 30 to 2200," there are 19 major world religions which are subdivided into a total of 270 large religious groups, and many unique faith groups. 1 Among this great religious diversity, there are probably hundreds of different religious creation stories which describe how humans, other species of life, the Earth, and the rest of the universe came to be. Many of these stories describe the origins of their particular religion. It was typically a revelation from one or more deities.
Science based: Anthropologists, evolutionary biologists and other researchers have reached a near consensus that humans of the species homo sapiens evolved from a species of proto-humans who originated somewhere in Africa. (This statement probably upsets any white supremacists who are reading this essay. That can't be helped; scientists consider the evidence to be conclusive; ultimately, we are all descended from Africans.) These proto-humans walked upright, and had an opposing thumb and little finger. Their internal brain structure represented a major advance over those of previous animals in terms of its flexibility, its ability to reason, and its ability to plan for the future. This gave proto-humans an improved ability to pass on their accumulated knowledge to their descendents, to form more advanced societies, and ultimately to create religions. The developing abilities of proto-humans were a double-edge sword, on the one hand, they aided their chances of surviving in a cruel and unpredictable world. They helped each successive generation of proto-humans to build upon the knowledge base of their ancestors.
This increased mental ability led to a terrifying piece of knowledge: personal mortality. For the first time, individual animals on earth became aware that their life was transient; they would die at some point in their future. This knowledge produced an intolerable emotional drain.
During their evolution from proto-human to full human, they developed questions about themselves and their environment. What controlled the seasonal cycles of nature -- the daily motion of the sun; the motion of the stars, the passing of the seasons, etc. What controlled their environment -- what or who caused floods, rains, dry spells, storms, etc?

What controls fertility -- of the tribe, its domesticated animals, and its crops.
What system of morality is needed to best promote the stability of the tribe?
And above all: what happens to a person after they die?


Before Science, people had no way to resolve these questions. Even today, with all of our scientific advances, we still debate about the second last question, and still have no way of reaching an consensus on the last. But the need for answers (particularly to the last question) were so important that some response was required, even if they were merely based on hunches. Some people within the tribe started to invent answers based on their personal guesses. Perhaps these were the first religions.

The first priesthood,
The first set of rituals to appease the Goddess,
Other rituals to control fertility and other aspects of the environment,
A set of behavioral expectations for members of the tribe, and
A set of moral truths to govern human behavior.


So you need an oral tradition which was disseminated religion among the members of the tribe and was taught to future generations. Much later, when writing was developed, the beliefs were generally recorded in written form. A major loss of flexibility resulted. Oral traditions can evolve over time; written documents tend to be more permanent.
Well, because these belief systems were based on hunches, the various religions which developed in different areas of the world were all different. Their teachings were in conflict with each other. Because the followers of most religions considered their beliefs to be derived directly from God, they cannot be easily changed. Thus, inter-religious compromise is difficult or impossible. Also, because religious texts are often ambiguous, divisions developed within religions. Different denominations, schools, or traditions have derived different meanings from the same religious texts. Thus were laid the foundations for millennia of inter-religious and intra-religious conflict. Religion must evolve, Organized religions were based on fertility. They were focused on the worship of the great Earth Goddess. Religion evolved to include male Gods who were gradually given increased importance by the priests. This development may have been caused by developing knowledge of the male's involvement in the process of reproduction.
Today, most people follow either a monotheistic religion, in which a single male god is worshipped, or a henotheistic religion -- a religion which recognizes a single main deity, but which recognizes other gods and goddesses, heroes, or saints as facets or manifestations or aspects of that supreme God. Most religions teach that they were directly revealed by their deity/deities to humanity, and are unrelated to other world religions. However there is considerable historical evidence from ancient times that religions in the area from India to the Middle East shared many religious beliefs. One example of this are: The many passages in the Hebrew Scriptures which contain concepts or passages taken from Egyptian, Babylonian and other nearby Pagan religions. Many of the events in the life of Jesus as recorded in the Christian Scriptures (New Testament) appear to have been derived from earlier Hinduism and other Pagan religious sources.
Religions were originally based on the particular beliefs of their prophets. Thus, there were few points of similarity among the various spiritual paths, in terms of their belief about supernatural being(s), various faith traditions have taught Agnosticism, Animism, Atheism, Deism, Duotheism, Henotheism, Monism, Monotheism, Panentheism, Pantheism, Polytheism, Trinitarianism, and probably a few that we have missed. It is obvious from these conflicting ideas about deities that almost all religions are just plain wrong.
Few agreements exist among the world's religions about religious beliefs, sacred ritual, organizational structure, optimum family structure, personal sexual behavior, etc.
Religions' traditional teachings in the area of science differ greatly from each other and from the findings of scientists. Examples are: how the universe was formed, where rainbows came from; the world-wide flood; talking animals; the sun standing still in the sky; the cause of epilepsy, deafness, blindness, and mental illnesses; demonic possession, etc.

But I still believe, whether you do or not that God exists, and it isnt foxhole relgion either. I have spoken to my higher power and learned much about myself and the world around me. If anything, I dont drink anymore because of it, I have learned to love my children and all my ex-wives again. For what it is worth, and for what it isnt I guess, it works for me. I dont force it down anybody's throat, nor do I want to tell anyone else their religion or beliefs are wrong.

My ex-girlfriend honestly believes in Dragons and Wicca, and I am not about to tell her she is wrong, it keeps her sane, on a spiritual quest that keeps her mind on improving herself and learning about the world around her. If I told her she believed in the wrong things then I would be a hypocrate.

I will stick to my beliefs, it is my spiritual sanctuary and it keeps my soul alive.

As a boy, I would go to the river with the congregation to watch baptism, hear the word of God from travelling preachers, feel the sense of community and watch people filled with the Holy Spirit dance and speak in tongues, I have watch spiritual healers too, I have seen faith transform peoples lives and make a positive difference. It is my salvation, my ticket to eternal life? I dont know, because for years i feared I was damned to hell for my sins, my crimes, my violence against my fellow man. I wrestled with the question over and over again. Proud to serve my country, to shoot accurately, to launch quickly, to tally the dead and enjoy a victory. But one only has to see what our science and our technology has done to each of us.
We kill by remote control, we send sons and daughters off to war, we drive carelessly down our freeways, shove drink and drugs into our own bodies and pollute and destroy the only temple that honors our Gods. Are we hopelessly doomed? Are we damned for our belief in self over others.
I feel that the more selfsih we become, the more like the very robots we animate to serve us, the more we stray from the spirituality we once embraced long ago.
Believe what you will, but we are destined to destroy this world. The voices of peace have been consumed and swallowed by the din of tank treads, jet engines and oil derricks, and the exhaust of our automobiles..
we are a selfish destructive race, and we shall destroy the world we know...
My only hope is that I maintain my relationship with my eternal father and pray for a resolution that will not leave this sphere in space a smoking relic of a civilization and race that lost its way.

BlueMak

Well, that is your view. lol

Humans will survive just fine, we have been killing each other for a long time now, in fact my view is the sooner all countries acquire nukes, the better.


I have to declare ignorance on this one, but apart from Christianity and Islam, which other religions clearly state that all other beliefs are false?

Also, it would help a lot if you didn't use the term pagan to group many belief systems. I find the term pagan insulting. Please try to use other ones, like either the actual names or if you are talking about many, terms like polytheistic, monotheistic etc. Pagan is a derogatory term and unless it is allowed to openly diss other people's beliefs and cultures in this forum, I would appreciate if people at least tried to not use it. If the above is allowed, then my guess is that words and terms for other type of beliefs is ok too.?

Maddogg6

edited
Will you continue your silence if she decides to attend a wicca ritual - instead of a qualified physician if deathly ill?
How about getting you to baby sit her kids while shes off on a month long dragon expedition?

Seems to me, your silence if more for your sanity - than for her/families 'best interest'.

Falstaff

without getting too personal...
ex-girlfriend..LOL

As you get to know people you make some value enriched decisions and that was mine, besides her beliefs there are always other things that influence relationships. But she is my friend. And yes, philisophical questions always came up, but she is a great artist and loves to argue, and of course.. nice tush. I am not dead or a monk ya know..

Maddogg6

I gathered this by your avitar... you dirty ol man.

'New this fall on FOX.... Dirty ol Monk'

Copyright - ME

V8VENOM

And the vicious cycle continues.

1. Try to disprove what you believe? Can you ask a question you can't explain away?
2. Even if you choose religion as your purpose, does that really give you self worth?
3. You can't answer your own questions, get over it, move forward, try to find answers if you are so motivated
4. Don't close your mind

I think we stand a small chance of survival if everyone would agree on #4.

Rob.

SFOSOK

It wasn't really directed at anyone in general, including you : ). Just stating how a I feel about the original posters mesasge and those that do attack christianity.

dj_stick

i'll get flamed for this, but i believe religion came out of a way of trying to explain why things happen and why things are as they are, thousands of years ago people had no scientific way of figuring it out, and so the very first religions were paganistic with tree spirits, sun spirits etc

but they slowly matured over years until what we have today

Zorg

I am amused about this, emm, academic discussion!
Have a deeper look into the ancient history of mankind and development of the various social systems.

Religion (church), in its medieval roots, created the basement for a political system and laws. Different races/tribes/countries created their own systems like Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Jews..whatever from what modern politics/law evolved.




Exactly that is why multiculturalism (true integration) is never going to work in any country – the systems are way too different to be merged into one system without harming anyone.

To put it even more plain – there is a reason behind why mankind has developed into different social systems encapsulated into different countries.




My two cents (pling)

Al_Vampyre

Not quite sure I understand the relevance of your point, I don't think anyone is trying to find common ground between religions here, the discussion as per the OP was surrounding humanity's need (or otherwise depending on one's opinion) for religion in general.

It does, as you have suggested, act as a kind of social 'glue' giving a society common frames of reference on which many political and legal systems are based. On the other hand it can also act as a divisor when you have many cultural/ethnic groups in one locale.

I think of it much like the twin nervous systems in the body, the autonomic system controls things like breathing and heartbeat so that you don't have to conciously do these things yourself, leaving your brain free to think about things like where your next meal is coming from.

Extreme oversimplification warning...

If humanity had spent its formative years trying to work out exactly what that big yellow ball in the sky was then I doubt we would have progressed this far. It was easier just to say 'Oh there's Ra again, he's the god that gives us light and heat and makes things grow...which reminds me if I don't go and water the wheat to make the beer then I'm going to run out soon'.

By doing away with the need to think about things that we just couldn't understand, we left more time to get on with the necessities of life which ensured our survival. As humanity advanced we created tools that made our lives easier, you didn't have to go and water the wheat because the irrigation system you came up with last summer does it automatically now. Leaving you more time to think about that big yellow ball in the sky (if you wanted to)...

Fast forward to where we are now, for most of us in the developed world, survival is no longer a fight, we have jobs and free time to ponder the existence of god (or not). We can come to our own conclusions about morality,ethics and indeed philosophy because we have the time and the knowledge to do so. Right here on 'that thar interweb thingie' is the sum of all human knowledge, everything from alpha particles to zutons, and for most of us its something we use almost every day. We're better informed (but not necessarily better educated) than we ever were before, if the King of Samoa dies tomorrow I'll know about it within minutes because my BBC rss feed will tell me rather than having to wait months for the word to filter round the globe.

We still don't know everything but we know a hell of a lot, and the interesting thing is that the stuff we don't know doesn't really matter to us on a day to day basis. As a modern human I don't need to apply supernatural explanantions to most things in my life because I know what makes the sun come up in the morning, I know that thunder isn't god moving furniture about and I also know that if I get struck by lightning when standing in a field with a 10' metal pole in a thunderstorm that it isn't retribution for trying to poke god in the butt! It was just electricity doing it's thing.

Once we discovered that there were logical, rational, and scientific explanantions for things we previously didn't understand, its not a large leap to assume that there are logical, rational, and scientific explanantions for the things we currently don't understand and that is why I personally don't believe in any god.

Everyone is, of course, free to believe whatever they like, and whilst I may not agree with someone, I also believe in their right to their own beliefs.

Falstaff

yep, pretty much a popular view..
religion was around long before science...

ergo....my moniker....its about the duality of man..

Renaissance Man..

get it..

Zorg

By the end of the day the OP suggests to "abolish" all religions (just play with this thought and its implications) - get rid of all different law and social systems on planet Earth to be replaced by one uniform what?

that's my point...sorry, it was not obvious but it starts sounding like a fictional chapter from Jules Verne. Intriguing fiction thou..

row

it's called "free will"

Falstaff

hurting, killing, destroying..etc..
that is province of man.

Maddogg6

why give us free will if god wants us to love one another?

edit:
Do yo see a pattern yet?

TheBlackCat

I see a lot of animals doing that as well. And if you believe the Old Testament, or the Book of Revelations, or most other world religions for that matter, God and/or the Gods are quite fond of "hurting, killing, destroying..etc.." as well.

Maddogg6

Ill assume your using 'province' with this definition in mind:
(if not please correct me)
Doesnt really answer the question - if you were attempting to answer it - btw
If not, ignore this post.(edit: and/or - please indicate what your comment was directed at)

hyperl1t3

this will probably come off as pompus and self-righous, but i see people in the religion of nature. survival, the documentation of survival, and the art of storytelling are all forms of this religion. i doubt jesus nor any other dieties came down and said "hark you cave beasts, start chewing up soft rock and create the first notions of graffitti art and i shall call ye, b-boys!" they went by the inclination of their biologic notions with the interaction of their natural surroundings. they created great earth toned art work in their shelters telling stories of kills and their lives and thus it was passed on (even we know their old stories . religion was most likely created by people that realized if they could manipulate or divert this system of belief then they could manipulate those people and thus they did. so for years people have been told "by the highest power" (i.e. the pot smoker, jk) that they were to do this, that, or serve such a way and these "lesser" beings did so without question. what they probably didn't realize is they weren't doing it for god or their own spiritual lifting... it was most likely for the guy telling them about this "being".