Reuters withdraws photograph of Beirut

SFOSOK · Aug 11, 2006, 09:19 PM

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Originally Posted by BWX

If you guys think for a second these people that want to kill women and children, on purpose.. as a target.. are freedom fighters. You have very screwed up view of the world.

There's a difference between an army and a terrorist regime..

ditto

Sandok · Aug 12, 2006, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWX

If you guys think for a second these people that want to kill women and children, on purpose.. as a target.. are freedom fighters. You have very screwed up view of the world.

There's a difference between an army and a terrorist regime..

Its not as if Isreal or the US don't kill (by accident) women and children...

War is ugly, some just go to greater extremes to get what they want. Come on, the US takes pics of their captives in horrible degrading ways. That's nothing noble either.

I still stand by what I said, a freedom fighter is somebody fighting for their points of view, however they want. Fighting and war was never pretty.

BWX · Aug 12, 2006, 02:36 AM

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Its not as if Isreal or the US don't kill (by accident) women and children... War is ugly, some just go to greater extremes to get what they want. Come on, the US takes pics of their captives in horrible degrading ways. That's nothing noble either.

I still stand by what I said, a freedom fighter is somebody fighting for their points of view, however they want. Fighting and war was never pretty.

People who intentionally target civilians.. women, children, innocent people going to work, eating lunch, etc.. for social and political statements and goals are not freedom fighters, they are cowards.

Any responsible military only kills civilians if the terrorists and/or memory are using them as cover.. or if it is an accident.. We spend billions to protect civilians.. so does any responsible military.

You are using one incident of terrorists killers being made uncomfortable to compare an organized military who has collateral damage? That makes the terrorists freedom fighters? I just don't see it.

I don't care how much a hated someone, I wouldn't kill their wife, sons, daughters, and parents to prove a point and gain power like them. They are cowards, they are weak.. they are deluded and evil.

They'll kill you.. they'll kill your parents, they'll kill your kids if you have any... you're an infidel to them if you won't help them kill innocent civilians. Unless of course you agree with them and their tactics and are one of them.. Are you? If not I can't see how you would call them freedom fighters.

The people who are fighting the terrorists in Iraq are freedom fighters. The IDF are freedom fighters... They would leave their neighbors alone if their neighbors left them alone. The problem with these nut cases is that they want to kill anyone who doesn't agree with them. It is amazing to me there are people in the world that would even hint at supporting them.

They just tried to murder 5000 people.. is that your idea of a heroic freedom fighter? Really man.. that is pretty sad if true.

Sandok · Aug 12, 2006, 02:49 AM

No course not, I don't say terrorism is good... They are fools for me and for you obvsiouly. But the people in lebanon, Hezbollah is an aid organiszation more than terrorists. For them, it's their freedom fighters. That's what I mean... I know they are wrong but for many, they are helping them where it counts!

Nothing like the brits who wanted to blow up the planes. Those are just terrorists but some of these groups (like the one in Palestine at the moment) help the population and come to power "legally".

***temeteus82*** · Aug 12, 2006, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWX

If you guys think for a second these people that want to kill women and children, on purpose.. as a target.. are freedom fighters. You have very screwed up view of the world.

I don't think like that!

BWX · Aug 12, 2006, 04:22 AM

Yeah I see what you mean.. to them, to some of the Lebanese.. They aren't as bad as we think. But I think they must be being mislead, or have the same beliefs (that Israel shouldn't exist. But the tactics they use are what gets me. And the fact that they say that Israel doesn't have the right to exist. Iran is the same, and Al-Qaeda. T
hey are all just stirring up a bunch of crap for crazy reasons. I don't understand wanting to kill someone for who they are. I don;t even want to kill them, I'd rather have them just stop.

Pompey · Aug 12, 2006, 04:42 AM

Hezbollah is not the same as Al-Quada.
Al Quadas goal is to establish global Islamic rule and yes, kill the Infidels.
Hezbollah was set up to liberate Lebanon, druing Israel previous occupation. Hezbollah does not care whether you are Muslim or not, their goal is not to 'kill the infidels'. Hezbollah runs schools so good (and so secular) even Christians send their kids to them. The hospitals they run are available to the general public. You don’t have to be a member of Hezbollah to get treatment, you dont even have to be a Muslim. If you can afford to pay then you pay, if you cant you dont.
It depends on who you talk to in the organisation about Israel. Some want it wiped of the map; others just want Israel out of Lebanon.

Hezbollah has employed terrorist tactics on the past, and they are responsible for this round of fighting but they are no threat to us.

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You just like ignoring stuff don't you.

well ill indulge my self and ignore you then.

Gabriel_Etranil · Aug 12, 2006, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pompey

well ill indulge my self and ignore you then.

I would expect this from you, typical terrorist sympathizer retoric.

BWX · Aug 12, 2006, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pompey

Hezbollah is not the same as Al-Quada.
Al Quadas goal is to establish global Islamic rule and yes, kill the Infidels.
Hezbollah was set up to liberate Lebanon, druing Israel previous occupation. Hezbollah does not care whether you are Muslim or not, their goal is not to 'kill the infidels'. Hezbollah runs schools so good (and so secular) even Christians send their kids to them. The hospitals they run are available to the general public. You don’t have to be a member of Hezbollah to get treatment, you dont even have to be a Muslim. If you can afford to pay then you pay, if you cant you dont.
It depends on who you talk to in the organisation about Israel. Some want it wiped of the map; others just want Israel out of Lebanon.

Hezbollah has employed terrorist tactics on the past, and they are responsible for this round of fighting but they are no threat to us.

well ill indulge my self and ignore you then.

They don't think Israel has a right to exist, and they don't think the US does either.. They are funded by a terrorists state who feels the same way. Anyone who supports them is a radical.

Pompey · Aug 13, 2006, 04:23 AM

Quote:

They don't think Israel has a right to exist, and they don't think the US does either.. They are funded by a terrorists state who feels the same way. Anyone who supports them is a radical.

They dont care wheather the US exists or not, thats Al Quada.

Quote:

I would expect this from you, typical terrorist sympathizer retoric.

Oh...um...wow.
I really cant be bothered with this so [insert random insult here].

BWX · Aug 13, 2006, 05:58 AM

Oh yeah, they love the USA.. Are you on crack?

Gabriel_Etranil · Aug 13, 2006, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pompey

They dont care wheather the US exists or not, thats Al Quada.

Oh...um...wow.
I really cant be bothered with this so [insert random insult here].

Quote:

July 25, 1997 ERRI Risk Assessment Services - Intelligence Report Vol. 3 - 206
Exiled Saudi millionaire Osama bin Laden remains hidden somewhere in the mountains of Afghanistan. He has set his sights on and has sworn to bring an end of U.S. influence in his native Saudi Arabia and the Islamic world. Counterterrorism analysts say that bin Laden is working with terrorist organizations such as Hezbollah and its patron Iran. Kenneth Katzman, the terrorism analyst for the U.S. Congress, said, [color=#800040]"I think you have an 'atomic bomb' brewing between bin Laden, Hezbollah and the Iranians. .... Just like the old E.F. Hutton ads, when bin Laden speaks, people listen. [/color]This past February, bin Laden renewed his threat of a "jihad" or holy war against U.S. soldiers and civilians in Saudi Arabia. This led the U.S. State Department to issue a warning. In speaking to an Arabic newspaper, bin Laden said, [color=#800040]"We had thought that the Riyadh and al-Khobar blasts were a sufficient signal to sensible U.S. decision-makers to avert a real battle between the Islamic nation and U.S. forces, but it seems that they did not understand the signal."[/color] Bin Laden reportedly made his militant contacts during the Afghan war. He then set up terrorist training camps in Sudan and financed attacks against the moderate governments of Algeria, Egypt, his native Saudi Arabia and Yemen.His apparent partner, Hezbollah, has a history of terror against the United States and its allies. [color=#ff0000]They are believed responsible for the 1983 attack on the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut that killed 241 Americans and more recently the 1994 bombing of a Jewish cultural center in Argentina that killed 95 people.[/color] There is growing evidence that bin Laden has struck the United States with Hezbollah's help. The evidence is said to be strong that his followers were responsible for the November 1995 terrorist bombing in Riyadh that killed five U.S. service personnel and two Indians. [color=#ff0000]It is said to be still unclear if bin Laden had any involvement in the 25 June 1996 terrorist truck bombing in Dhahran that killed 19 U.S. airmen.There is also evidence that bin Laden may had been connected to the February 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center. Ramzi Yousef, who is currently on trial for being involved in the World Trade Center bombing, is said to have received money from bin Laden's brother-in-law. [/color]According to a top State Department official, [color=#ff0000]"Bin Laden's activities were run through Islamic charities that we think extended as far as the Philippines and that is where Yousef planned out his attacks on U.S. planes."[/color] Yousef was captured in Pakistan at a guesthouse that was set up for Afghan war veterans by Osama bin Laden.

Why did Hezbollah bomb Khobar Towers, hmm maybe if you would take your fingers out of your ears you might be able to make a connection.

Pompey · Aug 14, 2006, 04:16 AM

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Why did Hezbollah bomb Khobar Towers, hmm maybe if you would take your fingers out of your ears you might be able to make a connection.

After the September 11, 2001 attacks, Hezbollah condemned Al Qaeda for targeting the civilian World Trade Center, though it remained silent on the attack on the Pentagon, presumably considering it a legitimate military target.[67] It denounced the Armed Islamic Group massacres in Algeria, Al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya attacks on tourists in Egypt,[68] and the murder of Nick Berg.[69] Nasrallah, in a 2006 interview with the [i]Washington Post, condemned violence against innocent civilians: “f there are American tourists, or intellectuals, doctors, or professors who have nothing to do with this war, they are innocent, even though they are Americans, and it is forbidden. It is not acceptable to harm them.”[67] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah

It is claimed by some that Hezbollah have links with Al-Quada, but they are nothing alike. They come from different branches of Islam; Hezbollah is comparatively liberal and from the Shia branch whereas Al-Quada is based on Sunni wahabism (sp?), a much stricter interpretation present in places like Saudi Arabia. They have a different ideology.

The attack on the US soldiers was not just targeting the US, they also hit the French. I dont know what their motives would have been (they may have viewed them as an occupation force?) but Hezbollah has still to accept responsibility. If they had bombed the barracks, they would probably have gloated IMO.

The world is not back and white and if you were willing to open your eyes and examine the circumstances you would see that not everything is good vs Evil.

Partizan · Aug 14, 2006, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pompey

The world is not back and white and if you were willing to open your eyes and examine the circumstances you would see that not everything is good vs Evil.

Completely agree with you!

Gabriel_Etranil · Aug 14, 2006, 06:23 PM

Quote:

It is claimed by some that Hezbollah have links with Al-Quada, but they are nothing alike. They come from different branches of Islam; Hezbollah is comparatively liberal and from the Shia branch whereas Al-Quada is based on Sunni wahabism (sp?), a much stricter interpretation present in places like Saudi Arabia. They have a different ideology.

So Al Qaeda has no connection to Hezbollah because they have different ideologies, you really got a weird thought process their.

Quote:

The attack on the US soldiers was not just targeting the US, they also hit the French. I dont know what their motives would have been (they may have viewed them as an occupation force?) but Hezbollah has still to accept responsibility. If they had bombed the barracks, they would probably have gloated IMO.

Why would they go to Dhahran to attack an occupying force, you really are getting on a weird range of points here. If they're so much different then Al Qaeda why do you hold them to the same expectations? Or is their no room for gray area in your opinions?

Quote:

The world is not black and white and if you were willing to open your eyes and examine the circumstances you would see that not everything is good vs Evil.

So you would define killing civilians as a gray area, as you say the world is not black and white, or do circumstances not matter?

Pompey · Aug 15, 2006, 04:10 AM

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So Al Qaeda has no connection to Hezbollah because they have different ideologies, you really got a weird thought process their.

How is it a weird though process? They have clashed (not physically of course) on many issues, as in the example Ive already used they condemned what happened on 9/11 and other incidents. A-Quada has described the Shias as an ‘enemy of the sunnis’. One group is Shia, the other Sunni and as you should know by now the two sects don’t exactly get along well.

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Why would they go to Dhahran to attack an occupying force, you really are getting on a weird range of points here. If they're so much different then Al Qaeda why do you hold them to the same expectations? Or is their no room for gray area in your opinions?

I have already said why it is unlikely that they worked together. Given Hezbollah’s stated aims there is no reason why they would have wanted to do something like that. They could have been involved, but it is extremely unlikely.

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So you would define killing civilians as a gray area, as you say the world is not black and white, or do circumstances not matter?

Israel is killing civilians too and at much higher rates. Israel still occupies Lebanese land (along with Syrian and Palestinian). Both sides had reasons for going to war.

Sandok · Aug 15, 2006, 04:28 AM

Actually, I have a REALLY stupid question so well... bare with me...

This whole yadayda with israel, hezbollah and all... Actually I tried to research a bit but didn't fall on much but well, since you guys are older, how come Israel actually exists where it does? Just was wondering...

Pompey · Aug 15, 2006, 04:56 AM

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This whole yadayda with israel, hezbollah and all... Actually I tried to research a bit but didn't fall on much but well, since you guys are older, how come Israel actually exists where it does? Just was wondering...

This is a good site IMO. You really need to be careful when looking up info related to this, most books/websites are increadibly biased towards one side or the other.
Heres my (simplified) understanding:
The Jews had a kingdom there thousands of years ago. God supposedly promised them the land. They were conquered by various empires, and many Jews were expelled because of things like revolting. That’s why the Jewish population was so dispersed. They were heavy persecuted particularly in Europe (the Holocaust was not the only atrocity committed against the Jews in Europe) and they were treated as second class citizens or worse. There was heavily migration back to Palestine during the first half of the 20th century by European Jews fleeing persecution; they wanted to establish a state in the homeland. They wanted Palestine for the obvious historical/religious reasons. This is known as Zionism.