Falstaff

Hey Judas...
I like that new sig...much better than the ole days with all the green ones...LOL

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Judas

green ones?

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Falstaff

yeah...remember some of your first sigs, werent they a little green?

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Judas

i recal...... 2 ... green ones..

the hulk and matrix ones.. but he matix one was more black then it was green.... or something..


or do you mean "green" as in something else?

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Falstaff

shoot....it could have a drug induced psychosis....dont know..

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Callandor

Hehehe, you guys. Thanks staff.

Edit: Just thought I would add, since I see guests is still reading this, who do you think has the longest reaching cruise missiles? India does. Along with Russia. India providing the computer guidance system, electronics and payload and Russia the propulsion system. People are so busy thinking about nuclear missiles that they don't even bother to find out who's got the furthest reaching cruise missiles, the missile is state-of-the-art even to the Tomahawk cruise missile in speed and in damage. In fact, it's supersonic. Think it's called the Scorpion missile or something, I don't remember. Now, imagine if that was fitted with a nuclear warhead instead of a standard one?
And those 7 series will only be available in China btw. And Botswana is the 2nd fastest, no, 3rd or 4th fastest now since China is now in the fray and you may not know who else may have come in since I got that information now, growing country in the world and India and any other country's involvement with that country, that's to be reckoned with. The peace and stability there it's staggering for an African country. Command and Conquer: Generals in it had America, China and the GLA, and I don't think the guys at Westwood Studios nor EA Games are stupid. The oldest remains of brain matter and ancient fabric are of ultra-ancient Red Indian origion, they were found in the wetlands of the U.S. in which these people burried their people and in doing thus almost perfectly preserved them for future generations to see them. The fabric is of a time when experts didn't even expect let alone think that anyone had fabric or knew how to make it and the brain's composition and way people were burried indicate they had a very developed society and way of life, one that even makes up to now experts question what the hell is up with history, or at least, the history they know. South Americans all through the people in Central America to the red indians in North America are all indian; they came from the North Eastern part of the world crossing into North America long time ago and down into South America before the first man who sailed the seas even thought of doing it and the oceans and seas of the earth even had formed the earth's geology as we know the earth today. In fact, one of my ex-girlfriends who is originally Bolivian loves to go to India, she grew up there and she's been all over the world now, though she wants to go back there and live there and the middle east cause she feels most at home there than anywhere else she's ever been in her travels.
First you gather the facts. If you have the facts no one will disagree with you, they'll all just shake their heads in agreement. Without the facts you have nothing, the more descrepencies you have, the more explaining you will have to do. Facts and money work alot better than most people would like to think. You just have to know how to use them properly. Then you can axiomatically be proven and you need not worry about retaliation. You'd be amazed how many things there are that you do not know in this world, you just have to look for them and you will find them. How deep you are willing to look though is the question. There's alot more to this world than what you wanted to see. Sometimes it is better to live in oblivion.
Above all things, in cases subsequent to this one remember, being subtle does NOT mean you are weak. It only means you are wise most of the time because there is no need to attract unnecessary attention. It only complicates the matter further and makes things far worse than they already may be.

And
I like that. The keyword there is share. The world's becoming a "global village" a little more and more everyday. Soon it will be impossible to tell who's from who and what's from where. I like how it's going. Even Mugabe recently appologised for all his transgressions and declared that they should let bygones be bygones and avoid reprisals and come and farm on his lands again. Pretty cool huh? LOL! The key thing is no one can do it alone, no matter what you are able to do alone and not together, you can always do something better when you work together. Two heads are better than one anyone remember? We should be pushing for more united and less divided otherwise we should fall. I'm no hipee but I'm all for diversity and putting our differences aside, heck, even I have my own favourites.

You know what would really help us now? The discovery of aliens. ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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SFOSOK

Isn't China already a world power? Last time I checked they have tons of people and lots of business, hmm.

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*Warning* - Explicit Content Preceeding



METAL!!

cozumel

Resurrection!!!!

If anyone needs more proof consider the impact on global financial markets following the crash on the Chinese stock market earlier this week...

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Alistair

Pfft wait a generation and china's labor pool will be drastically cut unless they begin accepting imigrants. The male to female ratio is getting out of control there.

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- Alistair

Zelig

And still over double that of the US, same deal for India.

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BWX

Yet comparatively they are so inefficient....

[COLOR="Red"]-------------------------- GDP -------------------[/COLOR]
1 World $ 65,000,000,000,000 2006 est.
2 United States $ 12,980,000,000,000 2006 est.
3 European Union $ 12,820,000,000,000 2006 est.
4 China $ 10,000,000,000,000 2006 est.
5 Japan $ 4,220,000,000,000 2006 est.
6 India $ 4,042,000,000,000 2006 est.
7 Germany $ 2,585,000,000,000 2006 est.
8 United Kingdom $ 1,903,000,000,000 2006 est.
9 France $ 1,871,000,000,000 2006 est.
10 Italy $ 1,727,000,000,000 2006 est.
11 Russia $ 1,723,000,000,000 2006 est.
12 Brazil $ 1,616,000,000,000 2006 est.
13 Korea, South $ 1,180,000,000,000 2006 est.
14 Canada $ 1,165,000,000,000 2006 est.
15 Mexico $ 1,134,000,000,000 2006 est.
16 Spain $ 1,070,000,000,000 2006 est.
17 Indonesia $ 935,000,000,000 2006 est.
18 Taiwan $ 668,300,000,000 2006 est.
19 Australia $ 666,300,000,000 2006 est.
20 Turkey $ 627,200,000,000 2006 est.






Interesting stuff......

[COLOR="red"]---------- POPULATION ---------------[/COLOR]
1 World 6,525,170,264 July 2006 est.
2 China 1,313,973,713 July 2006 est.
3 India 1,095,351,995 July 2006 est.
4 European Union 486,642,177 July 2006 est.
5 United States 298,444,215 July 2006 est.
6 Indonesia 245,452,739 July 2006 est.
7 Brazil 188,078,227 July 2006 est.
8 Pakistan 165,803,560 July 2006 est.
9 Bangladesh 147,365,352 July 2006 est.
10 Russia 142,893,540 July 2006 est.
11 Nigeria 131,859,731 July 2006 est.
12 Japan 127,463,611 July 2006 est.
13 Mexico 107,449,525 July 2006 est.
14 Philippines 89,468,677 July 2006 est.
15 Vietnam 84,402,966 July 2006 est.
16 Germany 82,422,299 July 2006 est.
17 Egypt 78,887,007 July 2006 est.
18 Ethiopia 74,777,981 July 2006 est.
19 Turkey 70,413,958 July 2006 est.
20 Iran 68,688,433 July 2006 est.



[COLOR="red"]---------- Labor force --------------[/COLOR]
1 World 3,001,000,000 2005 est.
2 China 798,000,000 2006 est.
3 India 509,300,000 2006 est.
4 European Union 222,700,000 2005 est.
5 United States 151,400,000 2006 est.
6 Indonesia 108,200,000 2006 est.
7 Brazil 96,340,000 2006 est.
8 Russia 73,880,000 2006 est.


another interesting one--

[COLOR="red"]--------- Military expenditures --------------[/COLOR]
1 United States $ 518,100,000,000 2005 est.
2 China $ 81,480,000,000 2005 est.
3 France $ 45,000,000,000 2005
4 Japan $ 44,310,000,000 2005 est.
5 United Kingdom $ 42,836,500,000 2003
6 Germany $ 35,063,000,000 2003
7 Italy $ 28,182,800,000 2003
8 Korea, South $ 21,060,000,000 2005 est.
9 India $ 19,040,000,000 2005 est.
10 Saudi Arabia $ 18,000,000,000 2002
11 Australia $ 17,840,000,000 2005 est.
12 Turkey $ 12,155,000,000 2003
13 Brazil $ 9,940,000,000 2005 est.
14 Spain $ 9,906,500,000 2003
15 Canada $ 9,801,700,000 2003
16 Israel $ 9,450,000,000 2005 est.
17 Netherlands $ 9,408,000,000 2004
18 Taiwan $ 7,930,000,000 2005 est.
19 Mexico $ 6,070,000,000 2005 est.
20 Greece $ 5,890,000,000 2004
21 Sweden $ 5,510,000,000 2005 est.
22 Svalbard $ 5,501,000,000 NA
23 Korea, North $ 5,217,400,000 FY02


[COLOR="red"]-------- Military expenditures - percent of GDP -----------[/COLOR]
1 Rwanda 13.30 2006 est.
2 Oman 11.40 2005 est.
3 Jordan 10.60 2006 est.
4 Qatar 10.00 2005 est.
5 Saudi Arabia 10.00 2005 est.
6 Israel 9.00 2006 est.
7 Eritrea 7.80 2006 est.
8 Iraq 7.50 2006 est.
9 Yemen 7.00 2006 est.
10 Mauritania 6.70 2006 est.
11 Angola 6.60 2006 est.
12 Macedonia 6.00 2005 est.
13 Burundi 5.90 2006 est.
14 Syria 5.90 2005 est.
15 Kuwait 5.90 2006 est.
16 Brunei 5.80 2006 est.
17 Maldives 5.50 2005 est.
18 Turkey 5.30 2005 est.
19 Morocco 5.00 2003 est.
.
.
.
.
27 China 4.30 2006 est
.

.
.
30 United States 4.06 2005 est.
.
.

131 Canada 1.10 2005 est.

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One Big Ass Mistake America

Socio

Actually if you think about it the next dominate world power to emerge will be Hispanic controlled Americas.

Hispanics are already dominate from Mexico down, the US has about 47 million another 40- 50 million Hispanic immigrants who will soon be granted citizenship plus another 3000 to 8000 more per day coming from south of the border. The Hispanics in the US have 3.4 percent growth rate far higher than any other race in the US including white.

So within a few short years will Hispanics be the majority in the US, it will become a one party nation (democrat) and be heavily influenced by Mexico, Central and South America, it will be a virtual puppet Goverment. Both South and North borders in the US will be desloved. Canada will eventually go by way of the US, and you will have both a vast arsenal, vast resources, and vast power from Cape Horn to Alaska controled by a United Hispanic Americas.

Sandok

That's a little extreme don't ya think?

Socio

You might think so but the reality is it is happening;

Look at this article in the Washington Post and this is from 2004 and it has gotten progressively worse since then;

http://washingtontimes.com/national/...2115-6766r.htm

Today in California it is almost impossible to pass any negative immigration legislation as a result, they have more sanctuary cities, massive debt ,the highest illegal immigration population, disappearing middle class, and rich getting richer.

It is a measuring stick for things to come for the rest of the nation.

The point I am trying to make is more they come here, the larger and more embolden the Hispanic power base becomes thus the weaker our borders become which leads to even more coming until the power base is so strong it dictates there are no more borders.

I live right on the border I am where the rest of the country will be in 20 years. the Mexican government has much more influence over my towns government than the State or Federal government does. The border here is virtually invisible, day workers come over by the 100's to work for under the table wages and go home at night, we bus 1200 plus Mexican students to US public schools, feed them free breakfast and lunch, even the 4 year college provides free tuition for many of them.

So yes United Hispanic Americas is coming however like Mexico and most other countries south of the border it will likely be to internally corrupt to ever wield it's full power potential.

Sandok

Well everything you say might be true, I dunno when I visit the US (well I stay up North), I don't see THAT many hispanic people to be hoenst but I can imagine it to be quite true.

And as your link showed, this is costing the US more than anything, not helping them much truth be told. Thus that weakens it as a world power (economics = power) and thus, it's impossible that UHA is going to be the next super power.

China and India, maybe economic powers but not real world powers because the lack of infrastructure weakens them. One day maybe, but I still think they need more than just their "good" economic growth to be a real power. Europe is still quite influential and powerful, I'd say they are the most likely major power in your scenario anyways.

Maddogg6

I think this # is impossible to know with any accuracy - 'publicly' they (the media reports) an estimated 12 Million. - I figure its more like 20M.

As, I also *know* plenty of the ones coming into the country - are 'returning'. They went back - and got 'accounted for' multiple times.

For instance - Back when I worked at LAX - Immigrations would do a sweep on all the airport employees. - 2 weeks later, the ones sent back, returned and dint even loose their job. This happened ~ every 2 years. Im sure this happens still - even on their own accord. (Visiting family etc..)
Once they learn the routes/ways - the stronger ones don't need 'help' entering (ie pay 'Coyotes'). I know (until more recently) some come and go as they please (almost).
Back OT...
China - their burst in their economy was inevitable given their policy change - once things will settle we'll have to see - can they be a 'super power' sure - the potential is there - does the US want to avoid that - I have to think so. Unless having an arch enemy (like USSR was) to ensure military spending is ones agenda in DC..??

Its seems things are already destabilizing in US/EU - China relations - and Id say with out that - their chances of 'super power' slim significantly.

Agreed - but we also need to expand - where the influence is asserted makes a huge difference.
Certainly Europe has more influence in the US here than China does - but Id say its a different story when talking about Iran.

I mean - here we are a super power - and have little influence there in Iran - we need neighboring countries cooperation for any success with trade sanctions (or other 'peaceful' pressure), when knowing that firing nukes is a trump card no wants played.
But, on that note....
The US seems to be more and more nervous in long range missile defense - as we are actively testing new defenses against it. (what happened to Ronnie Rayguns 'Star wars defense program? - ha, but thats another topic/thread)

Sandok

It's not a burst, far from it. It's just the natural economic conglemeration happening that all developping countries have (India, China, Malaysia, Taiwan, etc). In addition, given that China is communist, they're goverement has a lot of power to quickly change direction without fear of a backlash from citizens with too much free time on their hands.

And of course, the US wants to avoid such a thing because that'll mean you guys won't be number 1 forever (very bad) and America hates communism with a passion so that's just another incentive.

As for the relations, it's just the US and China recently who are having currency problems in between each other but as long as we buy their products, they'll get stronger.

Maddogg6

Hmm - I just read something about Chinas military movements making the US Pentegon nervous at some level.... so - its not just the currency thing.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...s/4837566.html

edit:
Huh? - not really make any sense here either....

Wikipedia...
Since 1978 - for a country that has history dating back to I dunno how far back - thats a 'burst' in most anyones book.
/edit

Socio

All True, however Europe has some immigration problems as well and if they are not careful they will be heading down the same road the US is currently traveling, and could very well end up being Eurabia in the next 20-30 years.

I just hope Europeans are watching the US and learning from our mistakes.

Zelig

Heh, the pentagon gets nervous when another country reaches 10% of the US military expenditure.

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Maddogg6

I cant argue that... but it can still affect trade relations none the less..

From Reuters - page 2

Sandok

Yes, the US is scared of China's growing military budget and mouvements but sa the BBC pointed out very well, the more money a country has, the more they'll spend and in this case, China is showing the world it has a bit of power.

As for the Wiki link, that's exactly what I meant by "The Theory of Economic Conglomeration" (rough translation from the French name) which says that a poorer a country the better it's growth (thus your 53% if you want). But the richer a country becomes, the slower that growth becomes (your 8%) but that prooves it isn't a "burst". A country like the US or UK will never see a large growth because they are already in the developed portion of the countries economy.

In other words, it's not a burst, it's exactly how the country should be doing

Only France has "real" immigration problems (and the UK I guess...) and don't worry, just because you have a lot of immigrants won't mean that your country will become an extension of Mexico or anything. It's a possibility, but one I doubt I'll see in my lifetime or anyone elses for that matter. Immigration was the foundation of the US, and it didn't destroy them back then. Or the Australians either you know.

Maddogg6

In case you missed my reply to Zelig above..
So, its not just about cash now, as you stated it was earlier.
You dont think Chinas military activity could lead to trade sanctions?
Not to mention...
from http://www.economist.com/printeditio...84053&fsrc=RSS

Do you actually think that - if sanctions were imposed on china, it would have a *positive* affect on their economy?

Seems your not understanding the word 'burst': to emerge or spring suddenly.

'burst' has nothing to do with 'expectations' but is about 'speed'.
Of course, *because* of chinas policy changes - their growth was expected - . The rate was prolly forecasted by someone as well. But was not the point anyway.

But ok, your arguing that chinas growth was not FAST...??
When you consider...
1) their LONG history
2) how much resources they have
To go from a poverty level of 53% in 1981 to 8% in 2001 - is an indication of FAST growth. Others seem to think so too.
From http://english.people.com.cn/200309/...3_124758.shtml

And...
from http://www.ers.usda.gov/AmberWaves/F...omicGrowth.htm

Thus, my use of the word 'burst'.

How does policy fit into that 'theory'?? It doesn't because its irrelevant. Speed and expectations of growth can only happen if policy allows it first.

So, back to the point I was making was....
Will their economic growth settle/plateau before or after they are a super power? - we'll have to see what happens. Things are very dynamic now.

Phwew - that was like arguing uniform colors at a soccer (football) game.
And why dont you post anything that supports your points???

Sandok

Of course anything can have trade consequences, thanks for telling about the obvious

And no, it won't have trade sanctions because if a country like the US can do what it wants with its military without trade sanctions, china is no different. You NEED them more than you think, the US isn't an autonomous country by far. Hell you important more than you can export, a very rare thing in today's developed world.

Trade sanctions wouldn't have any positive affects on you or on them, duh. Again, thanks for pointing out the obvious.

Obviously my books on economics, my teachers with a masters from IMD or Harvard and all is wrong compared to your links. I guess my I should stop my studies in economics and tell my teachers that websites are more correct then them. Oh, and that general economic theories are very wrong too.

Again, if you don't understand the theory, why are you trying to argue?! That's exactly what the theory suggests so either read up, google things or I dunno but don't argue for the sake of arguing. I'll scan my books if you so deem it necessary, but I doubt you can read french with sort of makes it useless no?

Maddogg6

BLA BLA BLA- says the guy who wont post anything but 'thats what my book/teachers says' - and admits to not reading entire posts...

ME argue for the sake of arguing!?! - at least I post support... all you post is your hearsay.

Bwahahahahahaha - ALL those web sites are wrong - ???? oh you are good - you messing with me.... lol


Your right - you have no need for school anymore - you have it all figured out dont you.

edit: Besides *you* chose to argue my use of the word 'BURST' not 'economic theory' - and I proved you wrong - admit it already so we can move on.

Sandok

Okay we are obviously not speaking the same language... I dunno, but my english is DEFINATELY not the same as yours oh great one.

Good riddance to this...

Maddogg6

Well - thats not my fault - English *is* my native language - and how hard is it to look up a word as simple as 'burst' sheesh - c-ya.

Sandok

There is a difference in between average joe "burst" and economic "burst". We don't use teh same one but only you are arguing that mine should be considered teh same as yours, which is strange since I've agreed with you many times but you aren't reading anything.

As for english, ya it's also my native language so please, for the love of whatever is holy, stop ASSUMING things would ya? Just makes you look more pompous than you already are.

And here, want some proof? I doubt you'll understand any of it but you wanted something, here's what all economies follow in general (very simplified but correct nonetheless).



As you can see, it levels out so the "burst" in average joe english is how you see it, seeing a good increase in the beginning and not the end. However, in "economic" terms, my use of burst is correct so please Maddogg, calm down and just try and read my post and understand what I'm trying to go for.

Maddogg6

So then show both definitions - I still know they refer to 'speed'.

You brought up the language thing.... I didn't. And isnt 'pompus' and un -allowed derogatory remark - like moron would be?? Your still a mod right?
I DO understand this - but I will say my point again. edit: that is simply stated as 'growth is 'logarithmic' in nature - Im not arguing that theory is NOY correct - just that it was irrelevant to my point and my use of the word burts - Im not gonna assume everyone reading this thread will know the differences between 'average' joe and 'economic' burst - pff - which btw - is ridiculous - as both refers to 'speed' or 'rate' in both cases. /edit.

GROWTH CAN NOT HAPPEN UNLESS POLICY ALLOWS. So you are arguing something I made no reference to.

oh economic student who should not need any more lessons.. answer me this...
Why did it take until 1979 for chinas economic growth to rapidly increase?
Or are you still arguing it was not considered 'rapid' (if you dont like 'burst') growth between 1979 and 2001?

Policy (the change of). period. that was my #1 point -you chose to argue 'burst' over.

And I thought you were done?


edit:
then wtf was this??

Maddogg6

And please get rid of the pic - its serves only 1 purpose here - to expand the screen - you didnt even comment that:
See how the growth is more rapid between A and B - compared to C&D - which - is obvious to any idiot and was never argued by me - other than its relevancy - NOT accuracy.