Why? Do we use a religious oriented calender system

Maddogg6

Ok - this may open a big can of worms, but I always wondered WHY - if there are soo many people that do not beleive in Jesus' existance was of any significance - do most refer to years before and after his 'alleged' existance. (on discovery channel, I hear 10,000 B.C., or 23 A.D. - for instance)

Has any one wondered this as well.?

Does Judism refer to past years in some way I have not heard before?
How about Muslums? - do they also use a 'time refernce' system like in the 'christian' nations?...

OR - is it ONLY in science - and they simply pay no attention to such topics??

I personally always though such a system of time/history reference was unfair to those who don't beleive in Jesus. Does anyone belive such a system is an instrument of 'brain washing'? or intimidation?

Doesnt it make more sense to be FAIR - that our calender years were based on the estimated age of our planet - or the number of times the earth revolved around the sun since man started to recorded 'history' - 'officially' - and NOT when Jesus was 'supposively' around... I mean, we changed the calender system once, whould it be 'impossible' to do so again??

For instance today might be April 21, 3056 - if say first offically recorded history was 1050 B.C (?? number is not releavent, as I dont know when this was - but used it to make a point)

(note how I made NON-PARTISEN references - and completely respect OTHERS beleifs)

Razgriz

I thought about responding to this, but then i decided to not waste my time. They are dates, who cares? If it irks you so much, by all means, come up with something new the entire world can follow. Have fun!

Sandok

Well at least the days and year cycles are correct....

TJ-

lets just all live and then die. End of story.

Maddogg6

Well thanks for your opinion... As condescending as it is - I still welcome it.
I get it - 'you could care less'... that alone, would have sufficed.

AND - thanks for NOT wasting my time too. Wouldn't want you to miss any action at (insert fav game server here).

Was my topic NOT accurate? - So WHY even look, if its a waste of time?

And I belive I DID come up with an alternative system...
Which means... you didn't bother reading it, huh? - So, why click on an accurately described post, then ignore the contents, but still add any comment?? Terms like 'rude', 'disrespect' and 'childish' come to mind, as well as 'emotionally challenged' and 'lack of reading comprehension'. I'm not calling you names or anything (Cuz, thats reserved for the FWZ forum, which this is not.), its just the thoughts that I had reading your informative reply...

And FYI - it ONLY 'irks' me enough to post the topic in THIS forum, obviously, so an 'apathetic gamer' can make snide remarks about. - heh - a debate forum! Here! - and bringing up a new topic of relevance... what was I thinking?? It's clearly a 'RazGriz' world after all.

Thanks again for your 'valued' opinion. [*flushes toilet*]

Sandok

Obviously no... I mean, Rag wasn't being mean just voicing this very question from your post as was I and Zion. It's not rude or disrespect mate, just we couldn't really give much thought about it. I have lived in 3 different countries and visited TONS of em and they are all based of the christian calender... so what?

Maddogg6

Ok - understood. But.

You dont see that as being a bit biased?

LeanWolf

It's simple, back in the day the catholic church pretty much ran the civilised world (europe) and used this power to create a new calender. Europe then colonised all over the world. I know the chinese have their own calender, and muslims too i think...

If you don't care about this particular thread then you shouldn't post in it. I see tons of threads that imo are just plain stupid but I just move on. This isn't the flame warzone, we're a considerate lot (mostly ).

mkk

It would simply be too impractical to change, and since the names for months and weekdays in our western system comes mostly from pagan times, I feel quite alright with the system as a whole.

Maddogg6

According to this:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0002061.html

It seems like they may have another calender system as a secondary reference , but I alwasy thought much of the world (as it seems to indicate in that link) have 'officially' adaptded to the current.

I bring it up ONLY - because - the most recent changes (1500 - 1700's) were based on 'science' - to adjust for vernal equinox. I don't entertain the idea of changing the months of their length... But, the way we refer to the year - (I think) could be (relatively) easy to change, to eliminate any 'religious' references. Thus - less biased.

I just thought it was 'weird' to have 'freedom' of religion in the US - and still have everything we learn in school history class - have a such a seemingly 'biased' reference, reguardless of the level of difficulty in making it completely 'fair'. Convenience never seemed to be much of a factor in other 'less argued' topics. So it would seem, most of the world has accepted it by now - but I also wonder how much of the world resents this.

I also wonder if those references in school, at a young age, were helpfull in making catholicism the 'dominant' religion in nations that used these references. And, that Im suprised I never ever heard anyone argue of this point, which would seem otherwise a hotbed. ??

Razgriz

I was merely expressing my opinion towards the matter as you did yourself. Whilist my comment might have been "rude", "childish", or perhaps even "lacking of comprehension", i must inform you that insulting my intelligence was rather "rude" and "childish" in itself.The word that comes to mind would be hypocrit. I am by no means "emotional challenged", but it seems to me that maybe you are a tad bit? My life is filled with things i am grateful for and keep me content, as is yours i assume. Perhaps next time you post, you should follow these simple and easy to follow guidelines which i have conjured up in light of this post.

1. Read the post in front of you.

2. Read it again objectively, without prejudice, to make sure you are not jumping to any wrong conclusions.

3. Dont jump into responding. Take the time to think your response through.

4. Re-read your response to make sure it make sense, and doesnt sound like crap!

5. Make sure the words you say are what you plan to stand by, regardless of the outcome

6. Send the post and try not to get into a war of words. Make a post and maybe a followup....


Keep these rules at heart and you will all find that you see things differently. Too many of us on here jump to the wrong conclusion too fast, and say things we dont mean.....

In light of those guidelines, another suggestion i would like to make is to be more cordial and polite in further dealing with the human race. You'll find life to be more fufilling, and it will help to strengthen your relationships with fellow beings.

There is some truth to your statement however, I am apathetic towards some ideas or object moreso than i am with others. The calender system for one, i could care less about. Personally, i find the current system to be rather orderely, and time efficient. Even the pictures of swimsuit models, nature scenes, or cars are quite pleasing to the eye, and informative no doubt.

I hope you will take these suggestions into mind, and perhaps even an apology for my somewhat, though unintentional, "rude" post.


P.S. - i haven't played an online game in 8 months. I find them to be incapable of satisfying the basic needs for life.

Maddogg6

Accepted Appology - as will I offer my own - But I will say - as I read your post (a few times even) - it didnt seem like you yourself, were following rules 4 & 5, that you pointed out. So if I jumped to a wrong conclusion, for that I applogize.

As freindly advice in return...
Statements like; 'Who Cares' is better said (ie less opportunity for mis-interpitation)
- 'it doesn't matter to me' - would have been taken with MUCH 'less salt' on my part.
'Who Cares?' sounds disrespectful, because obviously - I took the time to post, so, one can conclude that at the very least, I do care.. just sounds like an insult to me.

Words like 'Have Fun' & 'If it irks you some much, go and....' - usually (read: almost always in my experience) have a condescending or sarcastic undertone. (things I won't sit idley by and accept.) could have been better stated;
'I doubt the rest of the world will change the system for this' - It sounds (or reads) much more like your honest opinion and little room for interpiting as condescention or sarcasm.

And the paragraph you posted below #5 - suggests that you 'carefully' choose words for posting to avoid flame wars - just didnt seem like you did. Again, if jumped to the wrong conclusion - I do appologize. But I'll never appologize for defending against sarcasm/condesention aimed toward me.

And, you'll notice I often use 'seems' and 'sounds like' - intentionally, to NOT offend. As I AM carefully choosing my words.

Razgriz

Indeed, your suggestions are taken into mind. Sarcasm is heard to detect in the written word isn't it though?

Thus having a debate over the internet is inheritly flawed, in that, you lack essential forms of body language, tone, pitch, etc.

on topic: interesting topic though.

Falstaff

the Mayan calender is much more accurate....

(drumming knuckles)

what?

who said that.......

dont you guys keep current with anchient history...

wait...thats an oxymoran....

crap....

Nacht

To be more "PC" nowadays, scientists and journalists often use two different terms:

CE: "Common Era"
BCE: "Before Common Era"

This keeps members of other religions from being offended, but keeps everything simple by just using the same date everybody is already used to.

Sandok

Honestly, no. Do you think it's wrong that the whole world should speak english for science and business? Do you think it's wrong that the whole world uses Celcius and the Meter? There is always one system that prevails and this one was the winner. Whether it's the best or the worst doesn't matter, it's just the system that caught on the fastest and stuck like jesus glue

Maddogg6

Interesting...
But, I don't recall hearing these references. Now, I'll at least know what they are talking about.


I suppose a single language makes sense for a 'world economy' to work - I guess I'm glad it ended up my native language.

Personally I think formal latin would have been the best choice for a 'common' language, AFAIK - tends to be more descriptive. Like legal and medical terms. I equate it to historical name adaptations, such as 'John the Blacksmith'. (although it didn't allow much room for carreer changes )

I'd say, same as language - a single measurement system does make sense - and metric is easier to mentally realize - as its all 10 based (10 cm to a meter, 1000 meters to a Kilometer, 0C = water freezes, 100 = boils - etc..) - the english system just, isn't very 'efficient'.

Also, in the US, its still mixed - tempetures are reported in *mostly* in F (weather reports, kitchen oven settings), Gas & milk is sold by the gallon, speed limits are posted in 'miles per hour' etc.. - For how long the metric systems been in use, its suprising how much of the imperial system is still in use.

So I guess, ultimately, my point is, I can rationalize why your points have come to be, yet the OT - to me - doesnt fall completely within that same logic, as well as, they also don't have religious reference either. They seem to be more - 'logical' for global commerce.

Pompey

Ive heard the terms CE and BCE before (it was also part of an insider joke I had with one of my creationist teachers)

I dont really have a problem with the 'time reference' of our calendar being associated with Jesus (or when he died) - it has to be something.

Our planet is too old to start our calendar from it. The Earth is around 4.5 billion years old - that’s... 4,500,000,000...i think (billion, million, thousand right?). It takes too long to write and whilst 25/12/05 is ok for everyday use its not for official use. We would have to write 25/12/45000000000!!
Our calendar also contains aspects of roman mythology and religion (and the basic structure is roman) so its not just a Christian thing.

Also the Mayan calendar was very complex, and in 6 years the date will be exactly the same as it was on the first day according to the mayan calendar! Our calendar could theoretically be infinite (although im sure in the distant future they will invent ME[modern era] or something to shorten the date).

Im a secularist, but this is a perfectly good system so I see no reason why we should change it.

The metric system is better full stop.
Oddly enough, although we (my generation) have no knowledge of the imperial system we still measure something in inches (use your imagination)
Ive heard similar things about the English language - my English teacher even said "English is a stupid, stupid language". Seriously, why do we need the 'p' in phone and why is there a silent invisible 'c' is rap?...And why does it only appear after the word "gangsta"?

Sandok

But what is wrong with the calender? One day is 24 hours and a year is 365... Both are correct since the sun does appear every 24 hours and the earth does spin around the sun every 365 days. Who cares?

Maddogg6

Yes, the english language - because of all the slang thats introduced on a regular basis - as well as all the 'stupid rules' in grammer - is reason enough that its not the 'best' choice for the 'common' language - IMHO.

PS. - not sure if you realized this or not what your teacher was saying

Gansta Rap - a particular type of music that usually contain lyrics depicting violence (rape, muder, etc)

CRAP = bad, or another word for 'shit' - So, it seems your teacher was making a joke (and expressing his dis-like for 'Gangsta Rap') by saying; 'Gangsta Crap'.. (sorry if I stated the obvious) and the 'C' is not silent nor invisible.


Back OT:
I agree - the length of a day and a year, based on astronomy, makes sense (its based on science) - and using a a year that starts with 'year 1' of the earths age would be 'less convenient' so I guess the CE and BCE make most sense for use...

I dont see any problems with how long a day, or a year is... (its based on science) but the reference of historical events - that are either A.D. (After the Death of jesus) and B.C. (Before Christ - Christ refers to 'Jesus Christ') - What I was stating is - it seems biased, unfair, and doesn't seem to promote 'freedom of religion' IMO - was my main point of my OP.

Sandok

Biggest religion... We follow the majority

dj_stick

The current calendar is slightly flawed (months are supposed to follow the cycle of the moon, there are about 13 cycles a year, and not exactly in sync with the revolution of the earth)

But then again, it was a Christian monk who devised the current calendar, based on the fact that the moon cycles were out of sync with the earth's revolution so that the crops weren't been planted/harvested at the right times, causing poor crops etc...

It's even a few years off, but that's another story.

But it's still one of the best representations of the passage of time we have, it's widely accepted, and it's only in Christian nations that BC/AD is used, as Pompey stated earlier, other terms are used in other nations and more "politically correct" situations.

Like many of our practices, it has it's roots within a specific religion, BUT, it's a means to an end, the supposed date of the birth of Jesus was simply a reference point that was taken (if you wanted to be politically correct you could also say it was based on the appearance of Haley's comet - i think it was that one)