PCI-E frequency and overclocking questions

silentbob17

Ok so I just got a new motherboard and X800 XL and before I start overclocking my video card, I want to get the rest of my system to the settings I had on my previous setup.

I had my CPU overclocked from 2.0 to 2.4, my RAM at it's default speed and my HT (or HTT, whichever it is) at 800 (instead of 1000). I achieved this with BIOS settings by boosting the FSB from 200 to 240 (since my CPU multipliers are locked) then I lowered my RAMs speed to 166 and my HT (HTT?) multiplier from x5 to x4. I think I gave my CPU one or two of the smallest increments of voltage aswell. This gave me a pretty solid system.

I ran into problems with the RAM at first because I didn't lower it's speed because I didn't realise I was overclocking it when I boosted the FSB. This time arround I'm concerned about my PCI-E frequency. It's default is 100MHz but if I boost my FSB, it will affect that speed.

1. What does this frequency affect? and why is the range 100-150?

2. How can I do this overclock without screwing anything up?

3. I'm going from an nForce3 board to an nForce4. Is my HT (HTT?) different now or does it have a different clock rate? How can I find that out? (I noticed in the BIOS there are settings that are like 4x800 to 11x2000 or something, what do those numbers represent?)

A few side questions:

I have Hmonitor and it's telling my my CPU 2 is like 69 degrees. What does it think my CPU 2 is?

I loaded up CPU-Z (which I used to make sure my RAM and HT (HTT?) was ok during my last overclock) but it's not reading anything... is there some setup I haven't done? (it's version 1.3)

H3X4D3C1M4L

You don't want your HTT going above 1000 too too much so thats all you gotta worry about when setting that multiple.

1. That freq. affects your PCI-E slot and how fast its clocked.... like the PCI bus clock / AGP clock, most peripherals can't take it too much out of spec so best to keep it as near to 100 as possible.
2. Change divisors I assume.
3. Its the same so long as you keep it near 1000...the board should have the same multiplier settings for HTT.

AS for CPU2....I have no idea :| 69 degrees though is a high temperature for anything.

Try another utility to monitor temps and see what it says perhaps. Have no clue on that one

silentbob17

Like I said, my CPU multiplier is locked so I'll have to FSB it like I did last time, the thing about that is the PCI-E frequency will rise aswell. Is the PCI-E clock dependant on the FSB or the HTT? If it's based on the HTT, that would pretty much solve everything. It's just that I don't think I can lower the PCI-E frequency.

It's obviously not an actual piece of hardware that I have that's 69 degrees... that would be bad. I'm just wondering if anyone knows why Hmonitor reads my non-existant second CPU and gives a reading for it.

H3X4D3C1M4L

THat is entirely possible that it does falsify the reading...however for the PCI E frequency and whatnot you'd have to ask an experienced A64 OC'er, which I am not

Hope that helps though

silentbob17

So I just checked my BIOS and the only question I really have here is: what determines the PCI-E frequency? Is it directly dependent on the FSB? If so, how can I keep it low and still raise my CPU frequency (that has a locked multiplier)?

K that was more than one question but really I just need someone to explain this PCI-E business to me.

Thanks

soloz2

if you set the pcie frequency to 100mhz it should stay there. My mobo gives me the option to set the pci slots at 33mhz and then I can choose the frequency of the pcie slot. Just choose 100 instead of auto and it should stay.

silentbob17

Ah nice. I can see from your sig that you're doing the same thing as me too so that's good to hear.

silentbob17

Arg! ok I don't feel comfortable applying my settings without being able to make sure it's actually where I want it. I can't find a hardware monitor that will tell me about my HTT, RAM and PCI-E speeds. CPU-Z comes up with everything blank... what's up with that? How can I check the actual speed of these things after I've fidled with them in the BIOS?

ViRuS2k

never select auto for pci-ex bus, i have mine set to 105mhz

AMD64 3700+ @2.8ghz
DFI LP NF4 Sli-DR
ATI X850XTPE @ 620/615
2x512 Corsair XMSTwinX 3200LL

the things you have to watch out for is

1: your fsb/pci bus speeds
2: make sure you keep your HTT Hyper transoport Tech under 1000/2000htt
and also watch your temps.

amd64 cpus can run perfectly at max load of 50c
never exceed 60c or its meltdown/burnout.

i have been studying a lot of overclocking information to do with AMD64 becuse its diffrent from what i was use to being a formar AMD XP user

its recommended that if your overclocking to stick your PCI-Ex bus at 105mhz for ATI hardware and 100mhz for Nvidia Hardware graphics cards.
i cant remember where i read it but sure as hell my graphics card has been super stable.

and dont forget when you overclock your memory.
KEEP IT UNDER T1 COMMAND RATE never go to T2 COMMAND RATE otherwize it will cut your memory bandwith in half going from T1 to T2

also a good stable overclock on your memory would be trying to stick to 2.5/3/3/6 any higher and your memory will be a tad slow.

i hope all this information is usefull to you

also some programs to read your HTT/FSB/PCI would be

Everest Ultimate edition or home edition
Sysoft sandra 2005
Clockgen for Nforce 4 < great program it reads all critical settings and even lets you overclock fromwithin windows>

silentbob17

Thanks for the info!

The reason I was getting confused is that I launched the sketchy overclocking utility that came with my board just to see if it was of any use; it wasn't... but I noticed that when I raised my CPU speed (via the FSB), the PCI-E frequency went with it (not 1:1 but it looked like it was dependent on it).

But what you're telling me is that it's completely independent and that changing my CPU clock (say from 200 to 240) won't affect the PCI-E clock at all?

This isn't the case with RAM though, correct? If I set my RAM to 166 (instead of 200) then raise my CPU clock (via FSB) from 200 to 240, the RAM will end up back at 200... correct? (that's how it was with my last setup... I could check this with cpu-z, but not this time! what the heck)

So the settings I need to change for this overclock are:

CPU clock: from 200 to 240
RAM speed: 200 to 166
HTT multiplier: x5 to x4
PCI-E clock: 100 to 105
make sure RAM is set to T1

and about the RAM timings... I didn't mess with those last time since my RAM is the cheapest you can get, I'm not screwing myself by leaving them at default am I? I'd rather not get too intense about tightening the timings if I don't have to.

My temps are really low. My cpu idles just over 30 usually and I have a fan speed regulator setup in my BIOS to boost the RPM if it ever gets to 40.

ViRuS2k

Make sure you have a board that LOCKS its PCI/PCI-Ex bus`s
im unsure on that board if it has true locks.

and yes changeing your Memory from 200 to 133 will lower the clock of the memory so you can get a much higher HTT/Fsb

to test your overclock with your pci/ex clock overclock a little then go into windows
and check with the programs i said above. if your PCI/ex clock is the same as the clock in your bios then your clocks are indeed locked.

just remember to set your clock to 100-105 and not auto as auto on some boards will indeed raze the clock when you overclock.

goodluck.

also once your get that sorted run a memory testing program memtest86 in dos on your memory if after 7 hours or none errors then i consider this stable.

once that is done go into your bios and change your memory timeings to something like 2.5/3/3/6 then test the memory again with memtest keep doing this untill you get stable timeings...

safe voltages are within spec of most memory are 2.7v-2.9v
do not exceed 2.8v unless your ddr has heatspredders.

hope this all helps.

silentbob17

Wow thanks for those progs, I didn't even notice them at the bottom until you metioned them again. That ClockGen is amazing... just what I was looking for.

And for Memtest86, you just load it onto a blank disk and your computer will boot from it and do the tests? Does it matter if I format the disk in windows or will it just do its own formatting thus making anything I do before-hand irrelevant?

Update: ok so I tried all the settings with the FSB at 210 and checked the frequencies in ClockGen... everything looked good:

CPU: 2105.98
HTT: 210.60
Memory: 175.50
PCI-E: 100
PCI: 33.34

with the FSB at 215, it hangs on startup. Stops before it detects the IDE drives... what the heck. I'll try setting my PCI-E to 105 I guess and try once more but I don't know why it's haning like that.

Oh yeah my CPU voltage is 1.4v (default) should I be adjusting this at all?

Update: setting the PCI-E frequency to 105 in the BIOS gives 106.25 and setting it to 104 gives 104.69 (according to clockgen). Also I booted once at FSB 213 but it hung upon restart so I'm at 212 right now. Why is this giving me grief?

silentbob17

Ok so here is an AMD technical specifications manual showing voltages:
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/cont...ec_Rev_ENG.pdf

All I know for sure is that I have a Winchester core (not the Venice) and that on the top of my PIB there's a sticker from the place I bought it and it has "ADA3200BIBOX" on it. So should my voltage be 1.4 or 1.5? I'm going to update my BIOS once more aswell.

Also, all my RAM timings are in "T" notation, so like 8T, 11T etc.

soloz2

Yes, when you specify a frequency for your pcie it should lock at that frequency. I heard somewhere that Nvidia cards work best about 101Mhz and ATI work best about 103Mhz (it could have been 105Mhz though I'm really not sure) I haven't been willing to mess around with mine too much though. I figure a 1Mhz increase probably won't do much to help and I'm too scared to mess w/ it.

silentbob17

Thanks... I'm still dyin' here about my CPU overclock failure though... should I adjust the voltage? (Read above to know what's going on). What's the highest voltage I should avoid exceeding? (my temp isn't a problem)

Also, back to the PCI-E frequency: 105 for ATI cards... but as I mentioned above, when I set to 105 in my BIOS, ClockgGen tells me it's 106.25 and when I set to 104, ClockGen says it's 104.69... so should I set it to 105 or 104? 104 gives a closer reading so should I just go with that?

soloz2

I'd probably go with 104. But before you jump to 104 or 105 change it to 101 and run some benchmarks, then go to 102 and so on. See what works best for your mobo/ card combo

silentbob17

I guess I'll fiddle with it later, but right now I gotta get my CPU doing what I want.

You're doing a 3200+ at 2.4GHz... what's your voltage on that? Do voltages affect the Winchester and Venice cores differently?

soloz2

I just had stock voltage to get to 2.4. I had it up to 2.45 with stock voltage and stock cooling, but I didn't try any more. I put a tt big typhon on it and ran it at 2.4 just to be safe. I'm not one to take too many risks.

I was having a memory controller problem though... which was totally independant to overclocking. I had the problem with adn without oc, and since I made the computer. I finally got to troubleshooting and figuring out what was amiss. I had to rma my cpu due to what I believe is a faulty memory controller. I'll have to see what heppens when I get it back.

But anyway, to answer your question... yes voltages will affect the winchester dn venice cores differently. Venice's are known for their ability to oc. I've seen people get a 3000+ venice to 2.7-2.8 on air and over 3.0 on water. the venice 3200+ often get to about 2.7 or higher on air.

ViRuS2k

if your temps are fine then yes up the vcore
you dont expect to overclock a cpu and stick to default vcore and expect your cpu to overclock lol

most cpu`s require more voltages to run correctly when overclocked.

if your vcore is at 1.4v up it to 1.5v then update your vdimm voltage from 2.6v or 2.7v to 2.8v

then start upping your HTT/FSB 5mhz at a time untill your unstable then once that happens take your HTT/FSB back down 5mhz untill you get stable
and down forget to run memtest86

silentbob17

I had my CPU running solidly on almost stock voltage last time. I think I incremented it by one or two of the smallest increments just to be safe but I hadn't even noticed instability before that. Is setting it to 1.5 a pretty big leap? Is that going to CONSIDERABLY lower my CPU's lifespan or will it be just like any overclocking?

Also, I have the cheapest RAM possible... I'm going to set it so that it's not overclocked at all (hence my best possible setting will be 2.4GHz for the CPU). Do you really think I should up the voltage on that? or are you saying that I have to in order to overclock this correctly? if so, are you saying to give it +.01v? Once again, I didn't add ANY voltage to my RAM last time.

Just wanna get things straight here before I start pumping too much voltage into my hardware.

Thanks for the help though

Oh and one final thing; like I mentioned before, all my mermory timimgs, like that CAS and whatnot (I haven't messed with RAM a lot) are all in "T" notation in my BIOS, so like "8T", "11T" etc. There was only one or two settings in decimal form (2.5 or whatever).

ViRuS2k

no no 1.5v wont hurt the cpu one bit just keep your eyes on the temps.
i run my 3700+ @ 1.54v at 2.8ghz
and the cpu hasnt got a single problem at all.......

also even with cheap memory 2.8v wont hurt it at all i dont recommend going over 2.9v on cheap memory though.

if you get stuck or have more questions just ask.

silentbob17

Ok so I'll try that out... the voltages and all. For my RAM are you saying set it to 2.8v or set it to +0.1v above the default setting? Then once I get that straightened out, are you saying I should do a memtest to make sure the voltage is stable with the RAM or is memtest for when I try to tighten the timings? And the last thing is; why didn't I have to adjust the voltage on my last rig? It was the same processor, an nForce3 Gigabyte mobo, the same RAM... I just find it weird that this rig hangs at 2.13GHz... it seems so low since my last rig was at 2.4GHz without any of this type of boot failure or instability of any kind.

Thanks for all the help btw

ViRuS2k

what you did with one peice of hardware doesnt mean you will get the same with another peice of hardware.

and yes memtest after you tighten timeings
adding more voltages to your memory will stablize it and if the memory cant take the tightened timeings after your up the voltage then thats about as far as that memory will go.

uping the voltage and not changeing timeings wont do anything and you wouldnt have to memtest, infact your actualy makeing the ddr use more voltage there for makeing it even more stabler under normal settings.

just remember to watch your temps when upping the htt/fsb and relax your memory timeings untill you have the htt/fsb setting you want then after that work on tightening your timeings.....

if you start off tightning your timeings on your ddr before you have even upped the fsb then its garantee`d after you get a stable timeing and you go to up the fsb/htt your goiing to run into problems becuse of that.

good luck.

ViRuS2k

Btw i reread the last bit again what you posted.

like i said every bit of hardware differs in performance and what settings you can get.
this is an example and is a true story.

i use to own a Neo 2 plat NF3 mobo before i bought this DFI mobo and the DDR i had on the plat was 2x512 corsair and 1x1024 stick of corsair same cas latency

and that gave me 2gig on my plat working in duel channel perfectly
but when i bought this NF4 DFI mobo only the 2x512 DDR worked and if i sticked in my 1x1024 stick aswell the PC wouldnt POST.
but if i removed my 2x512 and stuck in the 1x1024 the pc then posted.

it just didnt like my 3 sticks at all even though the plat loved them.
so there for im currently stuck with 2x512 untill i can buy 2x1024 DDR i had to sell the 1x1024 to make some money for the new DDR and im still saveing lol...........

it could also be that your PCI/PCI-Ex doesnt lock correctly and when you overclock its takeing them out of spec that would result in a goodpost but when it came to accsesing your HDD then thats where you would get the error with a blue/black screen.....

again goodluck you will get there by the time im finished with ya lol