[BWX]

Yup- that's right!


~Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson (search) and Food and Drug Administration chief Mark McClellan (search) announced the ban at a midday news conference in Washington.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,106956,00.html


Allot of people will be mad when they hear this. I know I'm pissed- just more government medaling in my life- and republicans are supposed to be anti government control and big government- Whatever, this is BS is all I know.

*edit- spelling

[Veridian3]

Based on that news story, which seems unbiased, it looks like the government made a responsible decision. When the drug is proven to be safe then i'm sure that it'll go back on the market but from what i just read there are too many if's and but's to be risking people's health over, especially with the severity of those side effects. There are other alternatives for loosing weight than taking ephedra based drugs.

[krazy1]

I myself can agree with the government banning this stuff. It is pretty potent stuff. I tried Xenadrine once for a little weight loss help and let me tell you 1 pill will make your heart race like you will not beleive and you are supposed to work yourself up to 2 pills twice a day... Man my heart would have blown up. Ephedral is nothing to mess with. I agree with their ban.

[BWX]

I agree that ephedra is dangerous if abused, but so is Tylenol, aspirin, ibuprofen, alcohol, and about 10,000 other over the counter drugs. I've been taking ephedra off and on for years to combat the sleepiness that the prescription pain killers I take for my back problems always seem to give me.

Another thing is that there is no proof that ephedra killed anyone ever, not one study- in fact I think more people got struck by lightning in the US last year than were found to have ephedra in their system when they died. I'll have to check on that statistic- but I'm pretty sure it's true. Point being, the government overreacting without proof, something I think is more dangerous than ephedra.

Maybe if they did more studies, or just made the companies that made the stuff put big warning labels on the product, or be responsible for the injury to a person of it was proven that there was a link between ephedra and people dying.

The stupid corrupt government making my medical decisions and telling me what herbs I can and cannot eat just bugs me. -just one more step in them having complete control.

[Veridian3]

As it is of personal interest to you, here is another new story which provides a summary of a few studies and some statistics...

http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/12/30/ephedra/index.html

[BWX]

Originally posted by Veridian3
As it is of personal interest to you, here is another new story which provides a summary of a few studies and some statistics...

http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/12/30/ephedra/index.html

Thanks for the link, I saw it already though. It did remind me to post this though-

"Illinois and New York already have banned the sale of products containing ephedra, and Florida banned ephedra sales to minors in May."

I've already had to deal with this, because it was already banned in my state. I had to resort to buying it online, which actually saved me a ton of money. If this ban goes through I'll just tell my doctor how I take it and get a prescription for it or something similar. Then I won't be paying for it at all, but my insurance company will be paying about 1000% more than I could get it for. Oh well, I just don't trust the government at all, just the way it should be.

[blade5545]

I rememeber when I took and I am no moron when it comes supplements, took the stuff for three weeks and left side of my chest and arm started going numb my heart kept on changing speeds and I felt like my heart was going crazy i was sweating just sitting down I was also getting spasm in my legs and I kept on twiching, couple of my friends experianced the exact same effects when they took it, its about time they ban it the stuff its dangerous.

[studbagel9]

Well BWX I suppose it's good in some aspects that the government doesn't allow certain drugs on the market. Look at all these like dieting drugs and such which are out there today. Without a general supervising authority, people could put like LSD and cocaine into dieting drugs and we'd have all sorts of problems ;p. I agree it can be a pain, however the overall decisions of a public health care authority can only be for the better.

[BWX]

Originally posted by blade5545
I rememeber when I took and I am no moron when it comes supplements, took the stuff for three weeks and left side of my chest and arm started going numb my heart kept on changing speeds and I felt like my heart was going crazy i was sweating just sitting down I was also getting spasm in my legs and I kept on twiching, couple of my friends experianced the exact same effects when they took it, its about time they ban it the stuff its dangerous.

Exactly, it may not have agreed with you, and gave you side effects so you quit taking it. But you didn't die.
By the way, if you had all those negative side affects, why did you take it for 3 weeks? that doesn't make much sense.

Originally posted by studbagel9
Without a general supervising authority, people could put like LSD and cocaine into dieting drugs and we'd have all sorts of problems ;p.

That's ridiculous- coke and LSD are man made drugs. Ephedra is a supplement, an herb, that should be taken with care and not sold to children, but not treated as an illegal substance. That's the problem, no one uses common sense anymore.




Some people have side effects from lots of other herbs and over the counter drugs, but they never get banned. People have been using ephedra for centuries- I disturbs me that people just blindly agree with the government because of a few news articles. There isn't any solid research that shows ephedra kills people, or is dangerous when taken by adults with common sense. Pretty soon hamburgers will be a controlled substance because some moronic college study they cause heart attacks.. and people will agree and think it's a good thing because there was news story about it..
I would have more freedom in Iraq right now.

[krazy1]

and people will agree and think it's a good thing because there was news story about it..
I would have more freedom in Iraq right now.

I don't agree with the banning of this becasue of what some articles are saying. I am agreeing with the ban of this from personal experience and from what I have seen friends experience. My good friend had a very similar response to what blade5545 said but for him it didn't take 3 weeks for those effects.. it took 5 days....... If you feel that the government is taking so much away from you then go live in China once or Japan where the internet is regulated on what sites you can go to, how many kids you can have is limited. The regulations our government puts on us is no where near as bad as other governments. Look at what you have rather then what you don't.

[BWX]

The more you give the more they take, that's all I'm saying. Live in China? No thanks. But the US is turning into a socialist country where government sticks its nose in every aspect of your life- If it started out like that, we would be nothing.
I agree the governments needs to regulate dangerous drugs, and has it's place. -but to make it impossible for doctors to prescribe herbs and vitamins, while at the same time promoting all these untested (long term) drugs for everything- then to start banning herbs, it's just crazy.


by the way- I wasn't talking about you guys when it comes to believing everything you see on TV about ephedra (among other things)-- I'm talking about the public in general. Obviously no one on DH is that dim.

[Malus]

I think you're getting overly emotional since you actually use ephedra.

However, I think the government shouldn't ban it though. Not only does it help some people, but it will weed out the idiots who take it despite the problems they are having. It's a win-win situation.

[Dyre Straits]

So far, everything I've read about ephreda has led me to believe that it should be banned....at least until factors can be determined as to how it can be obtained and used safely. I've felt this way for quite some time and am downright relieved that the government has taken steps to assure the safety of the citizens who may be unaware of the problems associated with its use. In this case, it's the government simply doing what it's supposed to do.

[BWX]

Originally posted by Optimummind
I work in a pharmacy and BWX is just like my Vicodin and Morphine customers. Epherine is addictive and its stimulant effects affect the mind.

Because of people like you, FDA should ban the drug. I'm sick of dealing with people becoming dependent on addictive drugs like you.

I'm not addicted to anything- you accusing me of that shows your level of intelligence.

I've had three magor back surgeries in the past 3 years and have 3 bulging discs in my neck. I quit smoking cold turkey because the my doc. told me my fusion wouldn't have as good as a chance of fusing if I was smoking. You don't know jack about me or my medical history- so STFU about ME troublemaker.


Example of something you might say:
If you're like most of the other pharmacists I know you're slow and lazy and I'm sick of people like you. <<---- sounds stupid huh?


By the way- I have not taken anything for the past 4 days, my back is feeling pretty good right now- not that it's any of YOUR business..
Optimummind- I'm reporting your insulting post.

[Vengeance]

we can still get them here in Tex! I take 4 at a time Stays up all nights yes we do

[Crash Override]

I think thats about 5 reported posts for optimum in the last month

I told you man, you gotta chill k?

[Vengeance]

Originally posted by Crash Override
I think thats about 5 reported posts for optimum in the last month

I told you man, you gotta chill k?

Me? [SIZE=x-small]Ok[/size]

[BWX]

Originally posted by Vengeance
Me? [SIZE=x-small]Ok[/size]

LOL- no- I don't think so - You didn't accuse me of being a drug addict. Read 5 posts above.




For the record, I'm cool with everyone's views, I'm glad to hear them. I'm glad people have views on subjects that matter.
I also try hard not to insult people for no reason.

[Logla]

Originally posted by Optimummind
I work in a pharmacy and BWX is just like my Vicodin and Morphine customers. Epherine is addictive and its stimulant effects affect the mind.

Because of people like you, FDA should ban the drug. I'm sick of dealing with people becoming dependent on addictive drugs like you.

Do you have Heroin addicts in the US? On a large scale like we did and still do in the UK? Over here ( I dont know what the situation is in the States ) the heroin addicts, who have decided to go clean or have been forced into going clean by the law, use methadone to help them get off the heroin - although I'm sure you already know this. These people (99.99% of the time) chose to take heroin for kicks and I reckon the pharmacists are more sick of those people (because they often choose to rob the pharmacies for whatever they can get) than they are of those who are addicted to drugs they have been prescribed by a doctor.

Surely in your line of work (the one where an open mind is a productive mind, ie. science) would realise that if something works then it works. It may not work for everyone, but if it works for one person then it is doing some good at least.

After spending a couple of years in a social circle I would rather forget because of addiction (alchohol, cocaine, heroin etc etc) I realise that it is unforgiving to deny one person that which relieves their pain. I have seen this in those who choose to take addictive drugs for fun. These people became addiction through a choice they made themselves. Those, however who are addicted to a drug which was prescribed to them by a doctor or was reccomended to them by a person or persons in the medical profession do not desevere the indignity of being labled with the same distain we have for those who choose to get "spaced out".

In any case, you of all people should understand that addiction is an illness, no matter what the chemical involved and any addict is worthy of help because of the fact they are human.

Was Vicodin not sold as another wonder drug? I don't disagree that Epherine may be addictive and may have undesirable side effects, but why lable someone just because they are upset that the only drug they know to ease their pain is being taken away?

[BWX]

LOL- I don't even drink beer more than once or twice a year- I take no other substances into my body other than coral calcium and multi vitamins. I used to lift weights 3 times a week and ride my mountain bike 1200 miles a year- I used to bench 275 lbs before all my back problems. Then I get accused of being an "addict" because I say I am prescribed painkillers. I guess I'm learning self control now, cause If I said what I want to say I'd be banned in 2 seconds.

If it wasn't for all my back problems there's a 99% chance I wouldn't even be a member of this forum, or be interested in computers that much at all- or care if they banned ephedra, other than in a political sense. Logla, you are absolutely right. - but it doesn't really ease my back pain, nothing does, it just helps me stay awake when I have to take pain meds- they just put me to sleep for some reason..




**edit**



Here's what they took out of my back during my second surgery. Do you think you might take a prescription pain killer once in a while Optimummind? Would that make you an addict?

Just be glad I cleaned the bone fragments, ligaments, and blood off these before I took the pictures. Notice the broken titanium?

[Markius]

Originally posted by Optimummind
I work in a pharmacy and BWX is just like my Vicodin and Morphine customers. Epherine is addictive and its stimulant effects affect the mind.

Because of people like you, FDA should ban the drug. I'm sick of dealing with people becoming dependent on addictive drugs like you.

thats a little harsh dont you think? comments like that are just not called for, we are not even in the flame war zone for gods sake!

[Optimummind]

I made a harsh comment in response to BWX's harsh comment in his original post before he edited it.

I notice now that his original comment has been toned down a lot. Before, it was filled with violent emotions and harsh comments regarding the FDA and US supervisory roles in dealing with prescriptions.

Although BWX accuses me of jumping to conclusions, he was the one to jump to conclusions first by the comments he had made. Too bad forum readers cannot no longer read his original, unedited post. (Funny thing is, BWX states that his post has been edited due to spelling. )

When he makes such a harsh comment, he should, in the least, expect some harsh comments to come back right to him.

Besides, your original response to the news that ephedra may become banned in the market sounded like a response that may have come from an addict to a substance.

In fact, you may be addicted to it and not know it. Addiction comes in many forms--physiological, emotional, psychological, habitual, etc.

Reading your original post, one cannot help but feel that you were freaking out like an addict.

If you feel you are not an addict and have the strength to withdraw yourself away from that substance, good for you.

[Optimummind]

BWX says I jump to conclusions? How about you saying that Ephedra has no known deaths?

Read this:

------------
In a Rand Report released in early 2003, a review of about 16,000 adverse reports, the research and development company found there were two ephedra deaths, four heart attacks, nine strokes, one seizure, and five psychiatric cases found. The number of ephedra deaths will continue to climb unless the sales of ephedra-containing products are reduced or eliminated.
------------

Currently, there about about 50 known deaths related to ephedra usage.

And no, it's not like Tylenol, Motrin, and other OTC medications. They are not addictive and does not have adverse reactions as severe and unpredictable as Ephedra.

[**G.I.BRO**]

Optimummind,
your initial response was totally uncalled for. Please try to refrain yourself from such posts in the near future. This goes for everyone else as well.

If you cant post without adding such flames and such, then, i suggest you change your habbits or leave it in the flamezone.

Clear?!?
Greatly Appreciated