This DRM business is giving me a headache...

Bellator · May 4, 2006, 05:29 AM

So I'm in the market for a new portable media player. Truth be told the Creative Zen Vision M really caught my eye. More feature-rich than the ipod and with the ability to be used as a portable HD (which as far as I know you can't do with the iPod), I was likin' what I was seein'. And I just plain hate Apple.

So all is well right? Wrong. See the Zen Vision doesn't support AAC (and conversely the iPod doesn't support WMA). Now this wouldn't be a problem, 'cept while most of my music is mp3, some is AAC and some is WMA. Quite a bit of my music actually. As a result I'm up that proverbial creek. Since no quality player supports both formats, my options are either to re-rip my audio CDs, using mp3 instead of one of the lossless codecs (what I get for experimenting with those damn codecs), or I can try converting from one format to the other.

Now I am REALLY not looking forward to re-ripping my whole damn CD collection, specially since I have not taken the best care of my CDs (you mean the passenger seat isn't a CD holder?) and they've no doubt become fairly scratched. Also I'm nervous converting, as I'm not sure how much audio quality I will lose (can anyone answer this? I've been looking at this conversion app: http://www.dbpoweramp.com/dmc.htm )

So the gist of the story is: I HATE DRM

YAYitsAndrew · May 4, 2006, 06:19 AM

DRM isn't really the issue here, it's the AAC format. I haven't seen a lot of players that support it, and if they did at one point, newer versions tend not to. Have you looked into the ogg format? A decent amount of players are starting to carry ogg vorbis support (finally).

DRM for wma is a great thing when you're using it, and it's a terrible thing if you're trying to circumvent it. That's how it should be.

Just please, under no circumstances should you buy an ipod. They're busy riding their name and delivering inferior hardware products while other companies are doing everything they can to get noticed in the market. That means more features and better quality. But yes, you can use your ipod as a portable HD, there's a checkbox after you download itunes (don't think you can own an ipod without having itunes).

Also if you really want something unique, other market players that aren't so choked by the ipod (asian countries) make our mp3 player market look like the stone age.

Bellator · May 4, 2006, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YAYitsAndrew

DRM isn't really the issue here, it's the AAC format. I haven't seen a lot of players that support it, and if they did at one point, newer versions tend not to. Have you looked into the ogg format? A decent amount of players are starting to carry ogg vorbis support (finally).

DRM for wma is a great thing when you're using it, and it's a terrible thing if you're trying to circumvent it. That's how it should be.

Just please, under no circumstances should you buy an ipod. They're busy riding their name and delivering inferior hardware products while other companies are doing everything they can to get noticed in the market. That means more features and better quality. But yes, you can use your ipod as a portable HD, there's a checkbox after you download itunes (don't think you can own an ipod without having itunes).

Also if you really want something unique, other market players that aren't so choked by the ipod (asian countries) make our mp3 player market look like the stone age.

i totally agree with your ipod critique. and while i have no doubt the asian players blow our western counterparts away... seeing as I only speak english I think I may run into some problems using them (not to mention I hain't a clue how to order one).

The question still remains. Is there anyway to convert AAC to WMA without losing (noticeable) quality?

One thing I don't get: is AAC an Apple proprietary codec? I thought it was just another lossless alternative to WMA, not necessarily owned exclusively by Apple. Would it really cost Creative or other companies an arm and a leg to support AAC?

YAYitsAndrew · May 4, 2006, 07:14 AM

I don't know much about the format. The wikipedia page mentions its popularity due to apple and itunes, not sure if they actually own it or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Audio_Coding

I'm not sure how my friend ordered his asian player; it's pretty slick though. Maybe google or forums with big portable media player nerds could point you in the right direction.

IvanV · May 4, 2006, 07:44 AM

AAC, from what I've read, isn't quite Apple's proprietary format, but few, if any, portable players other than iPod support it. Also, it's not lossless. The only lossless compression I can think of is APE, and it isn't too efficient (about 40-50% smaller than uncompressed wav).

As for transcoding AAC to WMA, there will be some loss, as WMA is a lossy codec (just like mp3, aac, etc), but it shouldn't be too noticable if the AACs are of good quality. Though I'd probably re-rip my music if I were you. And I'd stick to mp3 for compatibility. If the quality concerns you, WMA may be slightly better at 128kbps, but 192kbps mp3s should be quite good enough, and if you want to save space you can use VBR.

~~Sanafabich~~ · May 4, 2006, 08:13 AM

Where in Europe did they pass on a law against that kind of stuff? I remember something about making their codes available so players support all formats

Bellator · May 4, 2006, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanafabich

Where in Europe did they pass on a law against that kind of stuff? I remember something about making their codes available so players support all formats

France is trying to pass a law like that, but if it gets passed Apple may leave France altogether (so they don't have to share their technology secrets)