drivehard454

I am not a high end gamer, but I do like to play sometimes. I have the GTA San Andreas. I can play it with my on- board graphics, but not in very good quality. After getting about 3/4 in the game, I finally bought a better video card. It is an nVidia 5500 Geforce FX series, AGP, 256 MB.

My integrated graphics is the ATI Radeon 9100. I went to CP and deleted the ATI driver and restarted the computer. I think that when it booted up it installed the drivers again. I installed the new card, installed the driver, went to CP and made sure that the ATI driver was not showing and re-booted.

I turned the settings up and started the game. It played perfectly, for about 5-10 minutes. Then the screen froze, the computer shut down, and restarted. I tried turning the settings down, and had the same results. I tried my other games like Wolfenstien, Nascar, Diablo, And Warcraft. They all played flawlessly. However, I could play these games with the settings at max before on the ATI graphics.

I tried DriverCleaner and screwed up something and lost my windows driver and couldn't recover that windows. I have since installed a separate new HD and new windows XP PRO, had some bugs to work out and am attempting to get this new card to work.

I open Driver Cleaner and see all the ATI drivers are back. I try to re-boot in safe mode(hit F8) at start-up and all I get is a sreen asking what to boot with, either the HD or DVD drive. I cannot get to BOIS to start in safe mode.

I tried the newest Nvidia driver 93.** whatever it was, ran the game and it plays, but about the same quality as the ATI did. Something is not right. It played excellent before, when it was locking up, and now it's not locking up but won't play very well.

I know this was a lot to read, but more info, the better, right? I have my MB and Processor on the left and I have a 400 watt PSU. Can somebody offer a little help or suggestions on this issue?

Thanks

lpzml

ownage

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BlueMak

You don't need access to the BIOS to go into safe mode. As soon as the memory test ends on boot, start pressing like a wild man F8. After a while the menu appears. Unless you have a USB keyboard that might (as in my case) not work because it doesn't feel like it.

Other than that, I have no idea, apart that you should change your graphics card, the FX series suck.

Also, thank you for making me laugh, I needed it. I have lost battles before as you are losing now, and it is funny if you have not lost anything important.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

drivehard454

I understand that it is not the best card to work with. I don't have a lot of extra $$ right now and I got it new on ebay for $35.00. But it should be perfoming better than my integrated graphics. It did work very well while it was locking my computer up. I am going to try getting safe mode up and use driver cleaner to empty out the ATI drivers again and the nvidia drivers.

I think that it automatically installs the ATI drivers when I start up. Is there anyway to stop this?

Also I read threads about peple using older drivers that work better for the older cards. How do I find out about whether I should do that instead of downloading the newest driver?

Glad I could make you laugh bluemack. Wish I could just go out and get something different, but that is not an option at this time. That card is well enough rated to play the game. If I can just get it to work properly, by the time I get around to finishing the game maybe I will have $$ to get something better.

Lelisevis

My apologies, off topic but BlueMak have you enabled Bios keyboard/mouse support in funnily enough the bios? My G15 wouldnt work on boot up until I realised it was set to OS keyboard/mouse. Hope it may help

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BlueMak

oh, my keyboard works at first, for example to type any password during boot up or to enter the bios, the problem is if I want to press f8, it just doesn't care about it.


drivehard454, it was not my intention to make you feel worse, or make fun of you in any way. I have been defeated by hardware/software in the past, and it was funny then too.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

CDsDontBurn

alright, since you have an integrated ATI onboard graphics controller, you should disable it in the device manager: right click my computer > properties > hardware tab > device manager > expand display adapter (should be the 3rd or 4th option from the top) > right click on the onboard video adapter > disable > say yes to hardware changes > yes to reboot.

The reason to disable it is to not have any conflict between the ATI and NVIDIA hardware.

Once having done that, you should remove all ATI display drivers if they are already installed. Then the best performing drivers for the FX series cards are the 84.21 drivers. the 9x.xx series drivers are buggy drivers w/anything older than a 7 series card.

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drivehard454

Hey bluemak I didn't take it as feeling worse, I knew what you were getting at, thanks.

Cds' thanks for the info. The thing is I go to display properties and the only thing that shows up is the nvidia card. When I open up driver cleaner it shows that there are ATI drivers somewhere in the system. My thing is I cannot get the computer to go to safe mode, so I can run the driver cleaner. I tried a couple times. and all I get is a small window asking which to boot, either the new HD or the main dvd drive. Am I missing something there? I have been doing so much to this box trying to straighten out the damage I did, I may be forgetting how to get to safe mode.

I am going to try again after this post, see if I can get anywhere.

Thanks for the link to the driver also.

drivehard454

Here is what the device manager looks like when I click display adapter:

Docmhz

Did you disable the onboard video in the bios?

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CDsDontBurn

sm bus controller is related to your MoBo's chipset. are you sure you did not unistall those by accident?

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drivehard454

Sorry for the lack of intellegence on terms. What do you mean by sm bus controller? Is that s-safe m-mode bus controller?

I do not think I would have done that. I have not deleted any thing on this new windows install. Is this something I may have deleted previously when I had my other problems?

I am told that I should switch my start up from looking at the dvd drive first, then the HD to look at the HD first, at start-up. This may then allow me to get safe mode when hitting F8?

I had it set this way when I installed the new windows and never changed it. I am at work right now, so I have to wait till I get home to try it. Does this sound like it is a possibility that is causing the trouble?

Thanks

CDsDontBurn

Since this is a new install of windows, then you may have not installed the chipset drivers at all.

as for changing the boot sequence of the drives, that wouldn't matter in the tapping F8 process. It only slows down the boot sequence, but not by much.

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drivehard454

Ok, I figured out why I couldnt get to start in safe mode. After hitting F8 and getting the boot screen, I thought that was it and just hit enterand let it load. This time I hit F8 after the screen and it took me to the page for starting in safe mode. DUH

Anyways, I ran the Drivercleaner on the ATI and the nvidia drivers, and restarted. I think it still loaded the ATI drivers as soon as it rebooted. I went to BIOS to see if I can shut off the IGP and I see nothing that says IGP anywhere is there another description that it would go by?

I ran my game and it does run better, I have to run at 1024 x 768 thogh other wise it gets very choppy. Before I could run at 1280 x 720. Plus it stutters once in a while and I have noticed that every so often I get a wavy affect, like you are looking through very hot vapors at the the screen, It only lasts for a while and doesn't affect the playing.

I know I've been told that this isn't the best card, but I know it should have no problem with GTA SA.

Did I get screwed on a bad card, or is there still a possiblity that there is other things that could be inhibiting performance?

I have not updated the MoBo chipset, not sure how to go about it, Nor the Bios.

BWX

You've answered your own questions there.. You need to turn off the integrated GFX to avoid conflicts... anyway, it will probably work a lot better if you do..

Yeah you should probably update the BIOS, but if not the BIOS, definitely the mobo chipset.. you need to do that at least- But turn off the integrated GFX first. There must be an option in there, just be careful not to change things you are not sure about.



Also, yeah that got me a few times with my new ASUS mobo- when you hit F8 it doesn't go into safe mode if you hit it too early. It goes into some stupid ASUS boot menu thing. That is a pain in the ass, I have build more computers than I can remember but that got me a few times so don't feel bad.


Oh- BTW- it sounds like since you see the driver listed in driver cleaner you think that it is on your PC or something.. that is not how it works. BE CAREFUL with DC.. just select the driver you want to clean.. and if it shows up in the list of drivers to clean next time you open DC that doesn't mean it didn't clean it.

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drivehard454

DC bit me in the ass the last time I used it. That caused about two months of problems for this beginner. I was very nervous about it this time. I only ran it on anything that was listed with the term nvidia or ATI. I also did not run cabcleaner, I am not sure if that is something that was necessary. If it lists the drivers when you open it anyways, how do I know it actually cleaned them out. Is just checking in add/remove and device manager the key to finding out if they are still active?

I honestly did not see a reference to the integrated GFX in BIOS. I do remember a listing that said integrated -something- but none of it looked like the proper device. I will look again when I get home.

I guess I need a helping hand also for updating my chipset and bios. I have never done that before. I have looked the information up, but I get lost and am not sure exactly what I need to do. Everything is a good learning experience and I am glad to see there are so many people that offer such good advice.

Thanks in advance.

BWX

yeah, you can't go doing that like that.. You will hose your system.. you need to be more precise when choosing which drive to uninstall. Sounds like you are pretty green, and shouldn't be messing around with BIOS options and powerful software like driver cleaner w/o doing some research first. Or at least reading the read-me's.


YOU probably uninstalled all your NVIDIA mobo drivers. Your chipset drivers, which probably included your IDE drivers, etc and hosed your system.
Did you list your system specs in this thread somewhere? What type of mobo exactly? model number etc..














No it doesn't list what your PC has on it - it lists what it has the ability to clean. You should uninstall your drivers first, and then just use driver cleaner to clean up any loose ends, etc. Don't just clean drivers that are already installed.

You should read up on it first definitely.. You will probably just continue to mess up you windows installation unless you are careful, and figure out how to properly uninstall and reinstall drivers. There are guides all over the place.. I'm not sure exactly where, but there are quite a few here at DH IIRC.

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BWX

Actually there used to be some driver installing/uninstalling guides.. but when I looked under guides
http://www.driverheaven.net/guides/





No driver installation guides..


I saw no stickies.. (I thought there used to be some sticky posts about driver installation) I looked in the vid card driver sub forums and found nothing..

But the read-me in the last driver cleaner version has a guide.. it is pretty straight forward.. it sounds like you re going overboard and just cleaning everything that says ATI or NVIDIA and hosing your system. Did you follow the read-me?






EDIT- when you find out what mobo you have, someone can point you in the right direction so you can download the correct drivers for your motherboard chipset.. which are probably NVIDIA.

So when you uninstall the drivers via add/remove you need to select ONLY the video card drivers, etc.. as well as in driver cleaner after that, if that is what you are working on. Then leave all the other Nvidia drivers that are for the mobo.

It sounds like you weren't even aware that there was such a thing as a mobo chipset driver and assumed it was a video card driver because is had the word "Nvidia" attached to it.

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drivehard454

In a way earlier post, before I screwed my sytem up, with another person, I was instructed to run driver cleaner on anything with the terms ATI and nvidia, so that is what I did this time. I did read the read-me and followed the proceedure for cleaning.

I do have my MoBo listed to the left under my log name, processor, nvidia card and RAM. I have windows xp pro SP2, and 400 watt psu, 110 GB HD space, and the integrated graphics is ATI Radeon 9100. Does that help?

I don't think I deleted anything important with DC, so I think I am ok there. Nothing seems to be working or not working out of the ordinary.

Yes I am a little green, but I do enjoy learning as much as possible, about computer systems, every day is a learning experience. Thanks for all the feed back.

BWX

They were wrong. You don't just "clean everything" with nvidia.. or ATi for example. You need to be careful and select just

the GFX driver if that's what you want.
I wouldn't even recommend cleaning out chipset drivers anyway.. sometimes it takes out files and windows becomes un-bootable- but never with just video card drivers.

That's just me.










By the sounds of it, you have deleted important mobo chipset drivers and windows reverted to defaults or something.









What about your" losing battle with the card"? I thought you said you were having problems? I thought you wrecked a windows installation and had problems for 2 months? You

said "DC bit you in the ass last time you used it" Now I am confused.















How long has it been there? I guess I didn't even see it there before.

Anyway.. you need to get the latest drivers and install them. by the looks of it you have deleted them by some over-ambitious use of DC.


http://support.asus.com/download/dow...Language=en-us




EDIT-
DAMN WTF- DriverHeaven is slow as hell lately.. it just froze for 5 minutes straight. Anyway.. looks like it is an ATI chipset..

ATI IXP200


-------------------
Socket 478 for Intel Pentium 4/ Celeron
On-die 512KB/256KB L2 Cache with full speed
Intel Hyper-Threading Technology ready
New power design supports next generation Intel Prescott CPU
Chipset ATI RADEON 9100 IGP
ATI IXP200
Front Side Bus 800/533/400 MHz
Memory 4 x 184-pin DIMM Sockets support max. 4GB
PC3200/2700/PC2100/1600 non-ECC DDR SDRAM memory
Dual Channel Memory Architecture
Note: Supports one single-sided PC3200 (DDR400) DIMM per channel only
Expansion Slots 1 x AGP8X (1.5V only)
3 x PCI
VGA - Integrated ATI RADEON 9200-based 2D/3D graphics engine
- Max. 128 MB of main memory configurable as display memory
- Integrated TV encoder and supports separately purchase TV out (AV/S) card
Storage/RAID 2 x UltraDMA 100/66
Audio ADI AD1888 SoundMAX 6-channel CODEC
S/PDIF out interface
LAN Integrated 3COM 10/100 Mbps LAN controller + Realtek PHY
USB Integrated 6 USB2.0 ports
Special Features Power Loss Restart
Support S/PDIF out interface
ASUS MyLogo2
ASUS CrashFree BIOS 2
ASUS Q-Fan technology
ASUS EZ Flash
Back Panel I/O Ports 1 x Parallel
1 x PS/2 Keyboard
1 x PS/2 Mouse
1 x VGA
1 x Audio I/O
1 x S/PDIF output
1 x RJ45
4 x USB 2.0/1.1
Internal I/O Connectors - 1 x USB 2.0 connector supports additional 2 USB 2.0 ports
- CPU / Chassis FAN connectors
- 20-pin ATX Power connector
- CD / AUX audio in
- TV-out connector
- COM connector
- Front panel audio connector
BIOS 4 Mb Flash ROM, AMI BIOS, PnP, DMI2.0, SM BIOS 2.3, ACPI, ASUS EZ Flash, ASUS MyLogo2
Support CD Support CD:
Drivers
ASUS PC Probe
Trend Micro PC-cillin 2002 anti-virus software (OEM version)
ASUS LiveUpdate Utility

Support OS:
Windows ME/2000/XP
Accessories N/A

Form Factor microATX Form Factor, 9.6"x 9.6"(24.5cm x 24.5cm)
--------------------







I have never dealt with one of those so I don;t know where the best place to get drivers for it is, the Asus website or if they have newer ones at the ATI website.. (or AMD now)? Anyway- you need to get the latest drivers. Start looking.

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drivehard454

I probably did delete them when I had my earlier problem.

Here's a quick scoop:

I got this nvidia card cheap. I new it was enough to play the current game I was playing, GTA SA. I installed it and downloaded the drivers. It played excellent for about 5-10 minutes then the screen froze up. It would stay that way for approx. 20 seconds and then shut the computer down and restart. It would do the same thing everytime I tried to play.

Doing research on the card and how to install, and problems, I found this Great site, DH. I posted my problem and that is when I got introduced to DC, and when I was told to run it. I ran it on everything I thought I needed to that accosiated with anytype of graphics. I rebooted and windows refused to start.

I posted that problem and a very generous Dyre Straits donated a new HD and instructed me to install a new windows on it and then I could get the system running. So I did. After that, I had a problem with slow reacting on "my computer" and a few other things were slow. So I posted that and was helped out and we found the problem. It was a component that was using the parallel port.

I then attempted to get programs and such to operate that I could access from the old HD. Some would work, some not. Mostly windows associated programs, (Microsoft office, Adobe, , etc. So I just gave up on getting my old windows up, xp SP3, and started to tune in the new install, get everything loaded and running.

I finally decided to try to play GTA and it still worked from the original HD. I installed the newest driver for my card and ran the game. It played worse than my integrated GFX. So I tried deleting the drivers through add/remove and device manager and downloaded the drivers again. same result, I was told that I was downloading the wrong driver and needed the quadro driver. That was terrible. So that is why I posted this thread in hopes of finding a solution.

Like I had stated, it played excellent when I first installed it, but it kept locking up. I screwed up trying to fix it and now that I got everything fixed am attempting to get it to work again. I was told to use 84.21 driver. It plays a lot better, but still stutters and once in a while gets choppy. It wasn't doing that before, when it kept locking up. So I know the potential is there, just need to figure out what is holding it back.

You are right, I probably did delete more than I should of, the first attempt with driver cleaner, and need to update everything, chipset, bios, and such. I will keep looking, and reading up on it, thanks for the low-down on my board.

drivehard454

If you are bored and curious of the steps that let up to my big crash you can read it here:

Forum > Graphics Cards > nVidia Graphic cards > nVidia Problem

sorry, could not figure out how to make a quick link.

drivehard454

Ok, I updated the chipset drivers. Hopefully I did it correctly. I just opened the zip file and let it run it's course, rebooted and and tried the game again. It still plays the same, with poor performance. I did not flash the BIOS though.

There has got to be something that is holding it back. I checked in add/remove programs and device manager again to see if there is any mention of the ATI drivers. I found nothing. I did look in BIOS again and do not see anything for integrated video to shut off, unless it would be called something I may not be familiar with.

I am still using the 84.21 driver for my nvidia card. I can play better than the ATI did, but maybe only a step better.

Is there any other options that I could try? Something must not be jiving. Is there a possibility that I need to re-download the game? I am still running it off my old HD that had the crashed windows. I wouldn't think it would make a difference, because it was just the windows driver that got messed up, All the programs that I had installed still work. Will it make a difference if I put it on the new HD with the new windows? Just a thought.

Thanks for all that everybody has offerred.

Docmhz

So you are running the game from a different harddrive? And you have reinstalled windows and haven't reinstalled the game? I would think there would be some key registry entries that would be missing. Maybe I'm wrong, but I ususally reinstall my games when I reinstall windows.

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drivehard454

I guess I never thought about it until recently. My original HD is still good, But the windows that was on it got messed up. So I installed a new HD and left the old one in. I installed a new version of windows on the new HD and now can access everything on the old HD.

Ijust clicked on the game and started to run it after getting other bugs worked out, to see if I could play it now. The original problem was that it played perfectly after installing the new card but would lock up after about 5 min. or so.(not sure if you read all the posts). So while trying to fix that problem, I deleted something in windows registry and could not start the computer anymore. So after getting the system running again, I just thought I would continue trying out the nvidia card. The game no longer locks up but does not play with the same performance.

I guess I will try re-installing the game. The reason way I didn't re-install it also is because the new HD is only 30 GB and the original HD is 80 GB. I just didn't want to throw everything on the smaller HD and so I left it there. Do you think if I deleted it and re-installed on the original HD it work right, or should I go ahead and put it on the new one?

cozumel

Hi drivehard, just making sure that you've done these things:

1. In the BIOS the on-board audio is disabled if you're using a seperate PCI card
2. In the BIOS the on-board graphics are disabled now that you are using the NVidia
3. That the install is totally fresh of XP
4. Used Windows Update to update the software
5. Downloaded the appropriate up-to-date drivers from NVidia
6. That you have downloaded the appropriate up-to-date drivers for any third party Sound card that you use if applicable
7. Checked the Device Manager to see if there are any driver problems
8. DirectX is correct for the games you are using
9. That you have checked the 'readme' file and website for the game that you are having problem with to see if there are any known issues and fixes or maybe patches

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Docmhz

Yes, if you install the game to the old drive, it should work fine. I downloaded the manual for your mobo, and I could not find anywhere to turn off the onboard video, so I'm assuming by having something in the agp slot, it turns itself off. Otherwise, you would see a yellow exclamation point for an unrecognized graphic adapter in your device manager.

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drivehard454

Great Docmhz. I have been told a lot to disable the on-board graphics and i keep looking and never see anything to disable. At least I know I am not crazy. Device manager is all good too.

Cozumel-- I have verified steps 1-4. #5, I was recommended to run the 84.21 driver since the card is older. Should I try the updated driver again? I believe I did try it already, but maybe after a fresh install of the game it will work better. If I do, this, do I need to run DC or will just deleting it in the add/remove programs work just fine?


I have the newest Direct X

I did not check the game site. I will do it after I re-install the game.

Thanks for the tips

cozumel

Just checked back in the thread and if CDsDontBurn said 84.21 then he's probably right. I've never used NVidia card so I wouldn't know (although I did have a 3DFX).

With powerful programs such as DC you must be 100% confident in how to use it prior to making any changes (as I'm sure you are aware). I've never used a driver cleaner program and never really had any problems. But then I'm very methodical in maintaining my system and keeping it streamlined.

I always uninstall the drivers in the Device Manager and all other relevant software from add/remove programs or Explorer before installing any new hardware. Then I shut down and check on reboot that the 'question marks' have appeared on Device Manager. Only then do I shut down and install the new hardware. Sometimes, depending on the installation, I have to open the registry to manually delete any rogue or un-needed entries.

I believe that the process I do manually is what DC will do automatically for you and may start using it myself 'cos the above can be quite time consuming!! Just make sure you read all the literature you can on how to use DC safely on this forum and search google on methods of cleaning old drivers and installing new or updated hardware.

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cozumel

Okay, just noticed a couple of things in the BIOS.

In the Advanced>Chipset>Northbidge Configuration
There is an option for 'Init. Graphic Adapter Priority [PCI/AGP]'.
You may need to check that this is correct option.

There is another option on this page for 'AGP Aperture Size'
Maybe this could be increased to 128 or 256MB?


Additionally, on the general installation side of things, if the AGP slot is being used it might not advisible to be using PCI slot #3 as they share system resources.

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