7800 GS Decision.

Masamune_Howard · Apr 13, 2006, 12:21 PM

Forgive me if this topic is slightly played-out by now, but I'm rather confused about getting a new video card and I'm hoping I might be able to get a little advice.

Let me begin by saying I'm stuck in the dusty old AGP hardware era. I'm running a socket 478 CPU (Intel Pentium 3.2 GHz on an ABIT AI7 board), and while I'd like nothing more than to upgrade to a PCI-Express solution, I'm afraid that I simply don't have the means to buy a CPU, mobo, Memory, and a new video card that would all be to my liking. Plus, the processor and memory are holding up just fine, and are barely a year old. So in the meantime (which will be a while), while I wait for cash and such, I'm looking for the best thing to throw into my AGP slot. I'm aching for that PS 3.0 support and a few more pipelines (Running an x800 pro at the moment - a first run one from sapphire).

I was considering bumping up to a 7800 GS, either the BFG OC version, or the eVGA superclocked version. I've got an Antec 550W power supply, so I'm not too worried about the new cards pulling more power than can be delivered, but I keep reading about 7800 problems. It seems a lot of people are getting some funky 'no signal' issues where the card will die during graphically intesive activities - or even cases where their machines just won't boot. A lot of people blame the overclocked cards for this, but others seem to think that these OC versions are well within reasonable limits.

So I was wondering, is it safe to invest in an overclocked version of the 7800 GS? Are they too error-prone to merit considering? I've heard the eVGA version is more risky than the BFG, too. Thanks!

fobis · Apr 13, 2006, 04:24 PM

Honestly, I'd suggest saving a couple more hundred dollars and buying a PCI-e system. I know you said you want a new AGP card now, but it's not really worth the investment since you can basically buy a PCI-e motherboard and CPU to go along with it for just as much as that video card.
But if you really must get one, I'd say go for the overclocked ones just for the heck of it. You may as well, really, since they come pre-overclocked and are supposed to be guaranteed to work at those clock speeds. If anything goes wrong, both BFG and eVGA have lifetime warranties for their overclocked cards, so you shouldn't need to worry about your card breaking and leaving you with nothing.
That's just my 2 cents.
Good luck!

Masamune_Howard · Apr 14, 2006, 12:22 PM

Thanks! I certainly see the value of upgrading to a PCI-express solution, so I believe your advice is right. Unfortunately, due to various factors, that's not really going to be an option for a few years (!), so I'm desperate to squeeze out the last bits of life from my aging (~1 year old) system.

In terms of the 7800 GS OC, though, I keep hearing issues about the PSUs not being able to supply enough power through the 12v rail. Is there any way to know how much is required via this rail? I know my Truecontrol 550W gives 24a through the 12v, for about 288 W, but I'm not sure if this is going to cut it with the higher-power consuming cards. I'm also running 1 SATA harddrive, two DVD drives, plus standard stuff like case fans (3) and a soundcard. I'd just hate to bork a card before I buy it due to the PSU - but when I bought it, I thought it would be fairly robust.

fobis · Apr 14, 2006, 11:19 PM

That PSU sounds like it could handle the 7800GS easily.
However, might I caution you that the earlier revisions of these cards do seem to have some problems... But the newer revisions seem fine for the most part.

wiskerbizkit · Apr 16, 2006, 04:49 PM

This decision you're making sounds all too familiar. I'm ordering my 7800gs friday. I feel that any processor and pci-e vid card setup i could afford right now wouldn't be as good as im running. I'd like the dual core and all of that but thats way out of my price range at the moment. Besides i really doubt my 3.0e will be obsolete anytime soon.

Masamune_Howard · Apr 16, 2006, 07:51 PM

Just an update, particularly for you wiskerbizkit:

I went ahead and bought the 7800 GS OC, got home and plugged it in - and made sure to plug in that Molex connector secure. I turn on the rig, and everything looks okay to start up with, as the monitor is getting signal and everything.

And about three seconds later, the most hideous high pitched alarm goes off from the video card(!), like I've never heard before. The weird thing is that I'm getting signal, booting into windows, and everything looks fine, but that constant wail is telling me something is very, very wrong.

When I replaced it with my old card, everything was top-notch. I called BFG tech support, and they told me the card wasn't getting enough power. How much bloody power do these things need? I'm not sure which PSU could provide much more power, and some others have actually reported using the same mobo and PSU with this card just fine. I'm really hoping that it's just a defective card, but I guess I'll have to RMA it to find out.

fobis · Apr 16, 2006, 09:39 PM

Ouch, that stinks. I hope you get everything worked out!

wiskerbizkit · Apr 16, 2006, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masamune_Howard

J
And about three seconds later, the most hideous high pitched alarm goes off from the video card(!), like I've never heard before. The weird thing is that I'm getting signal, booting into windows, and everything looks fine, but that constant wail is telling me something is very, very wrong.

now im scared lol. i got some no name 450w psu, who knows. Im getting the evga superclock one. I should be ok dunno for sure ill definately let you know though

Masamune_Howard · Apr 17, 2006, 12:04 AM

Well, it turns out that the PSU is putting out 11.82 V on the 12v rail, and that's rated at 24 A. I called up tech support, and they said it was fine, and that the card should work with the PSU. They suggested an RMA, which is what I guess I'm going to have to do unless there's another one I can trade it in for at the store.

You may be A-OK, wiskerbizkit. This is likely just one of those bad cards Fobis was talking about!

Chanur · Apr 17, 2006, 01:04 AM

Video cards can wail?? My system only does that if I set it to for a fan failure or as a temperature alarm? Or, when I've borked some setting when overclocking and my mainboard wants to rub it in my face in addition to not letting me into the BIOS...

A 7800GS reaches about $284, sooo....

Pentium D 805 $130 + $80 mainboard + $70 of 1gb DDR2 RAM = $280. Just leaves out the video card...

Those 805's can be OCed to 3.4-3.8ghz without serious voltage changes or anything, which also fixes that FSB bottleneck in the process.

wiskerbizkit · Apr 17, 2006, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chanur

A 7800GS reaches about $284, sooo....

Pentium D 805 $130 + $80 mainboard + $70 of 1gb DDR2 RAM = $280. Just leaves out the video card...

Those 805's can be OCed to 3.4-3.8ghz without serious voltage changes or anything, which also fixes that FSB bottleneck in the process.

I know what you mean man but i dont think that would perform much better than what i have if it would at all. I'm gonna wait till next december/january to do a full upgrade. The 280 dollar thing would work but id have to skimp too much on the video card. I can stand in Ironforge and still get 90+FPS im happy with what i got. only reason im getting a 7800 is im tired of having to disable shadows in games (Nvidia's soft money whoring is taking its affect on me).

Chanur · Apr 18, 2006, 12:40 AM

Hehe, that is true... Going to try and see if I can hold out on a 9600XT until I can get my paws on a Conroe... assuming they live up to their reputation! Using an OCed Northwood core...

Please note though, I read that HDR and AntiAliasing can not both be enabled on Nvidia hardware at the same time due to how Nvidia has designed their cards, which was a bit of a surprise to me! HL2 is the sole exception as their HDR effects are calced differently than anyone elses's HDR implementations.

Masamune_Howard · Apr 18, 2006, 02:08 PM

As much as I didn't expect it, Chanur, yes, video cards can wail. It nearly made me jump out of my skin when it first happened! A long, continuous high pitched beep that started when I powered on and lasted until I killed power.

Just another update: I dropped the card into another rig with a much lesser PSU, and turned it on without problem. This is probably a PSU issue, rather than anything to do with the card. I'm worried that there's insufficient power on the 12v rail now, because I read that if you don't use the front-mount plate for the TrueControl 550 W, it operates at 95% to keep from damaging anything - and I can't adjust without a multimeter.

Now it's just a matter of hunting for the right PSU for an ABit AI7 and such. And actually finding one... I'll update again if I get things working, for all you out there looking for the 'final AGP' solution. Personally, I'm holding out for a huge overhaul myself. No need to upgrade to PCI-express just yet if I'm going to have to wait for AM2, Vista, etc. I'll need to buy everything all over again! This way, at least, I can play some games while I save money.

SSXeon · Apr 19, 2006, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chanur

Hehe, that is true... Going to try and see if I can hold out on a 9600XT until I can get my paws on a Conroe... assuming they live up to their reputation! Using an OCed Northwood core...

Please note though, I read that HDR and AntiAliasing can not both be enabled on Nvidia hardware at the same time due to how Nvidia has designed their cards, which was a bit of a surprise to me! HL2 is the sole exception as their HDR effects are calced differently than anyone elses's HDR implementations.

Yes im doing that also, and conroes will live up, the 3.3Ghz EE will need a 4GHz AMD DDR2 to even come close.

And Nvidia cant do Hardware HDR+AA ie Farcry/Oblivion but software code can enable it.