Longhorn Preview

daRk_heLmet · Jul 5, 2005, 09:29 PM

The most recent build of Longhorn--Microsoft's next Windows--has some impressive visual touches, including the kinds of translucent objects found now in Apple's OS X, and more powerful ways of finding files. But it doesn't yet exhibit any breakthroughs in productivity, or promised features such as security improvements and smarter connections to handheld devices.

We tested the 64-bit version of the latest code released to developers (Longhorn build 5048) and have also viewed demonstrations of a subsequent build. The first beta version of the operating system is due for release this summer.
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Read More/Source: PC World

CDsDontBurn · Jul 5, 2005, 09:32 PM

i want an alpha version to play around with.

daedal · Jul 5, 2005, 09:45 PM

Looks interesting but it also looks very bloated. Wait and see, I guess.

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jul 5, 2005, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDsDontBurn

i want an alpha version to play around with.

well you should know where to find them...

Ulric · Jul 5, 2005, 11:37 PM

Personally, I think this project is in dire need of help. Absolutely nothing about Longhorn intruiges me, and I don't believe I'll be buying it when it's released unless there's some serious improvements made. I don't use handheld devices, I don't need a faster method of searching for files, and I don't need a translucent desktop taskbar (or whatever). Maybe I'm pessimistic, maybe I'm cynical, but I'm certainly unimpressed.

I'm sorry for my "rant"; I'll move along now.

RIV@NVX · Jul 6, 2005, 02:15 AM

PCWorld review says: "But it doesn't yet exhibit any breakthroughs in productivity, or promised features such as security improvements and smarter connections to handheld devices."
It's quite obvious that Longhorn is not a lot more than XP with a new look and lots of new things you may want to turn off after using it for some time.
I don't no, but Linux/BSD field is a lot more interesting in recent times... and GNOME/KDE (MacOS X does as well, but that's not the poin here) desktops look a lot better than this, IMHO.

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jul 6, 2005, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIV@NVX

PCWorld review says: "But it doesn't yet exhibit any breakthroughs in productivity, or promised features such as security improvements and smarter connections to handheld devices."
It's quite obvious that Longhorn is not a lot more than XP with a new look and lots of new things you may want to turn off after using it for some time.
I don't no, but Linux/BSD field is a lot more interesting in recent times... and GNOME/KDE (MacOS X does as well, but that's not the poin here) desktops look a lot better than this, IMHO.

well there was alot of long horn stuff in sp2 so it hard to compair fairly and as we all know SP2 was a massive improvement to the XP OS

RIV@NVX · Jul 6, 2005, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Neon_Cowboy

well there was alot of long horn stuff in sp2 so it hard to compair fairly and as we all know SP2 was a massive improvement to the XP OS

I can't think of anything other than Security Center and Windows Firewall, and I don't use either. Also, now I have to listen to stupid balloon popup on every startup because I have Automatic Updates turned off.
Nothing major I can think of. That wouldn't be a massive improvement for me.
Yeah, some drivers were added, but lot of stuff still requires 3rd party ones.

NUCLEARWINTER · Jul 6, 2005, 02:38 AM

Im Not Gonna Spend A Cent Of My Money On Any More Un-original Crap. Xp Is Most Certainly Better Than Me, But I Like 98 Better Than Xp. But New Developers Quit Coding For Older Os's. Really I Dont See Technology Making Strides As Fast And As Earth Shattering As A Few Years Ago. Could We Be Reaching The Pinnacle Of Technology's Growth?

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jul 6, 2005, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIV@NVX

I can't think of anything other than Security Center and Windows Firewall, and I don't use either. Also, now I have to listen to stupid balloon popup on every startup because I have Automatic Updates turned off.
Nothing major I can think of. That wouldn't be a massive improvement for me.
Yeah, some drivers were added, but lot of stuff still requires 3rd party ones.

the full service pack "unpacked" but still compressed is like 326MB,
and I'd say quite a bit was changed weather you have taken notice it or not.
For refereance the original XP full install is only 460mb, with stuff still compressed.
Then you get another 40+ mb of windows updates in patches...

It more like a XP "second edition" then just a service pack
and they even ponderd just selling it as a XP SE...

You have to use the origial XP pre any service pack fairly it to compair it to long horn.
Where as people would be going wow! as oopsed to being unimpressed by mostly cosmetic changes.

mkk · Jul 6, 2005, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NUCLEARWINTER

Could we be reaching the pinnacle of technology's growth?

The slowdown has much to do with there really being no one in the overtake lane behind Microsoft, or even on the same highway. They'll keep getting even slower as long as there is no risk of someone putting a boot in their rear. The result of the web browser war where Microsoft came to a complete standstill is a relatively insignificant but telling tale.

I like WinXP+SP2 as much as I've liked any version of Windows, but much of its good sides comes from stuff it should have had from the beginning or at least with the first service pack. That we are eventually getting some "Longhorn" features with SP3 comes as a result from that we should already have had the new operating system. But the delay of Longhorn isn't really hurting Microsoft anything since there is no real competition, like how dragging their feet with the 64bit WinXP only hurt AMD and their respective customers. Unless the eventual release of Longhorn will prove to be the catalyst for 64bit support to ramp up seriously it will be a largely uninteresting affair at least initially, and many will wonder what the heck the buzz was all about. (Have to admit I'm glad that it wasn't about .NET though.)

I can't help thinking of Valve and the only thing that could spark a revolution would be a Steam powered Longhorn in 2007.

ZeroOne · Jul 6, 2005, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDsDontBurn

i want an alpha version to play around with.

A hint : Bittorrent sites

RIV@NVX · Jul 6, 2005, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Neon_Cowboy

the full service pack "unpacked" but still compressed is like 326MB,
and I'd say quite a bit was changed weather you have taken notice it or not.
For refereance the original XP full install is only 460mb, with stuff still compressed.

Let's rather not praise SP2 for beeing bloated in size. Tell me the features worth mentioning that SP2 brings. Nothing really major.

Quote:

Then you get another 40+ mb of windows updates in patches...

I never download them... they bring only uninteresting security stuff, while I rarely browse the internet from Windows so I don't care.

Quote:

You have to use the origial XP pre any service pack fairly it to compair it to long horn.
Where as people would be going wow! as oopsed to being unimpressed by mostly cosmetic changes.

I doubt I would notice any big differences.

It could be that size of SP2 or version numbers of files in it create warm fuzzy feelings for you, but that's not something that can make you say: "It's big improvement over XP.".

I agree that XP SP2 is the best Windows available. But it's just that and nothing more. The fact is: Compared to 9x, XP and 2000 are good OSes. Compared to Linux, BSD and OS X, they are all severely lacking.

Obviously, Longhorn is going to be XP + eye candy, like XP was 2000 + eye candy. Sad thing, they dropped the interesting stuff like new command line (similar to bash).

ZeroOne · Jul 6, 2005, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIV@NVX

Let's rather not praise SP2 for beeing bloated in size. Tell me the features worth mentioning that SP2 brings. Nothing really major.

I never download them... they bring only uninteresting security stuff, while I rarely browse the internet from Windows so I don't care.

I doubt I would notice any big differences.

It could be that size of SP2 or version numbers of files in it create warm fuzzy feelings for you, but that's not something that can make you say: "It's big improvement over XP.".

I agree that XP SP2 is the best Windows available. But it's just that and nothing more. The fact is: Compared to 9x, XP and 2000 are good OSes. Compared to Linux, BSD and OS X, they are all severely lacking.

Obviously, Longhorn is going to be XP + eye candy, like XP was 2000 + eye candy. Sad thing, they dropped the interesting stuff like new command line (similar to bash).

U do not half know what OS Longhorn is gonnabe, i advise U to read more carefully what Longhorn has to offer before giving your opinion.

RIV@NVX · Jul 6, 2005, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroOne

U do not half know what OS Longhorn is gonnabe, i advise U to read more carefully what Longhorn has to offer before giving your opinion.

I read. I don't remember anything I haven't seen before or anything revolutionary at all. Did I miss something?

CDsDontBurn · Jul 6, 2005, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Neon_Cowboy

well you should know where to find them...

on your public server

. lol, jk.

I'm actually quite excited about winLH. It's not for all the "enhanced/new" security features i'm interested in, but the way it will interact with the user.

I've seen a supposed feature of winLH where your desktop is a globe and you can place your icons anywhere and bring them closer or farther away from you. Your desktop will be a globe so you have the space to move around anywhere you want. I think i'm excited for winLH just for that feature

.

rssarma · Jul 6, 2005, 11:57 AM

What windows really needs is an innovative way to organize desktop clutter, especially the way some windows steal focus all of a sudden is just not right. This is something MSFT needs to look into, but they are busy building eye candy.

CDsDontBurn · Jul 6, 2005, 11:58 AM

i'm all about the eye candy.....that's the reason why i'm so hyped up on winLH

RIV@NVX · Jul 6, 2005, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDsDontBurn

i'm all about the eye candy.....

Have you ever seen OSX or a modern GNOME/KDE deskopt with a nice theme?

No_Style · Jul 6, 2005, 04:42 PM

This article is very...how can I put this delicately..... uninformative? All they talk about is one aspect of Longhorn. Its looks. There's going to be usability changes and I'm really all for that.

I'm awaiting Longhorn. It's going to be great, I don't care if it's a minor or aesthetic improvement over WinXP, it's still an improvement. It's like upgrading from Fedora Core 1 to Fedora Core 2. Not earth shattering, but there are still improvements. (Bad example, but hey). FireFox was not revolutionary, yet people jumped on it like flies to poop (Not saying that FireFox is poop, but just as an example). I do not see why Longhorn has to be revolutionary in order to upgrade.

BTW, Monad (Windows' New CLI) is already out on MS BetaPlace. It sounds very impressive and a welcome change.

CDsDontBurn · Jul 6, 2005, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIV@NVX

Have you ever seen OSX or a modern GNOME/KDE deskopt with a nice theme?

I have seen OSX and i believe i have seen KDE at one point, but i like to be able to know how to use what it is that i am using

.

CDsDontBurn · Jul 9, 2005, 03:19 PM

one of my co-workers showed me this about winLH. It makes me want to "pee my pants"

Quote:

Longhorn uses the Windows Graphics Foundation, or WGF. WGF 1.0 will use DirectX 9.0c as it's primary interface, but Longhorn will also have the Next-Gen 3D API build in. You can see it as DirectX 10, but it's called WGF 2.0.

One of the important features of WGF is the Longhorn Display Driver Model (LDDM). It is possible with LDDM to install a new graphics driver without even rebooting your system. LDDM will ship in two stages. The first, called basic, supports current generation graphics hardware: shader model 2.0 and 3.0 capable hardware. The second stage of LDDM, "advanced," will support hardware features that ship ar the same time or after Longhorn is released, but will work with the new features in WGF 2.0. Because of the competitive way of graphics hardware development, we'll probably see advanced LDDM capable hardware before Longhorn is released. The current Windows XP driver model is still supported, but will be frozen going forward.

Advantages of Longhorn above XP:
- run more than 15 graphical applications at the same time instead of 2
- complete control manager to optimize system resources
- every window in Longhorn will be a 3D surface (when opening My Computer you're actually watching an interactive 3D texture)
- applications can be bigger than graphic card memory currently allows
- split your monitor into four pieces and play games at the same time while listening to music with Winamp, watching a movie with Media Player and posting BS on Guru3d.com
- Longhorn uses DirectX to show the Windows Desktop
- you are able to rotate your windows in a 3D way, so you can push it to the background, put it upside down or squeeze it in a corner
- Longhorn supports up to 160 windows open at the same time
- four different graphic modes for Longhorn (2GB/256MB/128MB/64MB textures)
- new motherboard BIOS'es will be integrated into Longhorn itself
- some of the BIOS settings can be changed within Windows and you won't even have to reboot to apply the new settings
- with XP, users got a lot of freedom to configure and tweak their system but Microsoft says that with Longhorn the 'more advanced' users will get the freedom to customize and tweak even more features of Windows that wasn't possible in XP

Now some very important info about gaming on Longhorn:
- there will be NO graphical difference between an ATI or nVidia card anymore, the only difference will be speed
- WGF 2.0 allows GPU processing without CPU intervention
- The Xbox 360 uses some of the technology Longhorn will use to handle games on the PC

If you want to play a game Longhorn will disable every component of your computer that isn't needed by the graphical interface and unloads the Windows Desktop (it's like running a game in MSDOS).

While it's true that the graphics technology for Longhorn is very advanced, it's also true that Microsoft is trying to have a wide array of hardware specifications. By the time Longhorn actually ships, almost every new PC should be able to support the user interface and Windows Graphics Foundation.

That doesn't mean users will need GeForce 6800 Ultras or comparable cards. As we've seen, the user interface will support four qualities, the most basic should even run on most of today's hardware. If you want the full Longhorn experience, you'll want a heavy system and graphics hardware, and lots of memory.

Windows Longhorn will probably be released in the second half of 2006.

Recommendations:
- Don't think of buying a computer today and use it to run Longhorn next year
- Memory is the most important component for future computing (graphics and system memory)

After reading this you probably are peeing in your pants, but don't worry, you still have 16 months before you need an upgrade!

Extreme minimum requirements:
1.6 GHz processor
512 MB memory
64 MB videocard
7200 RPM HD 16 MB cache

For the full experience:
4 GHz processor
3 GB memory
1 GB videocard with WGF 2.0 support
15000 RPM HD 1 GB flash memory

Update 1: LONGHORN CHANGES PC INTO CONSOLE
Dean Lester, the General Manager of Windows Graphics and Gaming says Microsoft is making the gaming-functionality of Windows Longhorn the same as a modern game-console, but wants to keep the advantages of PC gaming like high-end graphics and sound hardware, online communities, community support and downloadable content.

Update 2: COMPUTERS WITH DIFFERENT LEVELS
Microsoft is working together with nVidia, ATI, AMD and Intel to develop pre-configured computers with different levels, low, mid and high range hardware-configurations for different sales prices. PC's with a certain configuration of CPU, videocard and memory will be split in different levels. Because of this, choosing a PC for gaming gets a lot easier, because fast computers will get a higher level. The system requirements on game-packages will have a level requirement, so you can see if the level of your computer is high enough to handle a game.

Update 3: EASY TO USE
With Longhorn Microsoft wants to eliminate the long installation procedures that PC games have. Installing and playing a game should be as easy as with a console. They too are developing a special driver manager, so you won't have any problems with different drivers. This means no problems with flickering textures, stuttering and crashing anymore, because the drivers will be fully controled by the graphics interface and because of this system nVidia and ATI can develop and test their drivers for problems within a few seconds. Updating drivers and BIOS'es will get a lot easier because Windows Update will get a special feature that automatically checks if your hardware is up to date and automatically updates your drivers, BIOS'es, the Longhorn graphics interface and even updates for the most important feature of Longhorn, WGF 2.0.

Update 4: FUTURE GRAPHICS
Microsoft is going to implement Pixel and Vertex Shader 4.0 support into the new graphics interface, so in the near future after Longhorn is released there doesn't have to be anoth