Omega vs DNA report

snake · Jan 19, 2004, 04:33 AM

As it's been said sooner, this one is really... kinda strange

http://www.dark-tweaker.com/dna-omega-ati-310-7.htm

If they're right, i would really enjoy a more stable version of their DNA drivers to fix the shitty bugs

If they're wrong, everyone is right but them, the case is closed and they're cheaters

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jan 19, 2004, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by snake
As it's been said sooner, this one is really... kinda strange
http://www.dark-tweaker.com/dna-omega-ati-310-7.htm

If they're right, i would really enjoy a more stable version of their DNA drivers to fix the shitty bugs
If they're wrong, everyone is right but them, the case is closed and they're cheaters

BTW: the way killersneak has "direct" ties to the guys that run that german website

.

Quote:

Originally posted by MonarchX
...

You been a follower of DNA religiously for quite some time. If you looking for lies you came to the wrong website. You need only to hit DNA's website to see a nice barrage of lies.

Dude do you not know what Vertical sync is/does? You apparently haven’t been in pc’s long or you’d know having Vertical sync has caused troubles since way before u can even think of. So you telling me the technology experts ( from all over the world /some that most likely built the hardware you’re using now) are wrong? Do you truly fallow killersneak so blindly?

V-sync really should only be only off when bechmarking... Do you realize that when it’s off even if a game showed 1000fps it doesn’t display any faster then your monitor can display.

CrapolaJola · Jan 19, 2004, 05:42 AM

Here's my opinion on the whole DNA/Omega thing. I admit in the earlierDNA drivers KS did copy Omegas work which was a bad choice on his part. Personally, I believe he has sense changed, last time I checked the INF files for the DNA and Omega Cat 3.10s (I've used both) they were different. I also belive that both sides of the argument are at fault for this crap. Omega lovers well KS copied Omega, but he has changed. Also, the latest comparison, on DH seems to have different results than other comparisons (We can't really say one side is lieing to bring down the other as theres no proof of the argument of lieing, so my statement about that don't mean shit lol - Also, Cowboy I'm not tryign to bash you or accuse fo lieing as your a great guy and help a lot of ppl on these forums). Also, if I had to belive one sides benchmarks over the others I'd believe yours cowboy

. In my expierence with the DNA 3.10s I haven't had one crash, error, or anything like that and they are fast (I haven't any actually comparisons, but from what the comparison showed it would appear that DNA would theoreticlly have less quality, but I've yet to see an image comparison test). Now the DNA people hmmm. Personally I don't believe the DNA are people all that bad (altho I've seen comments about Angel, but not nearly as many as Omega guys make about KS). I'd say the main problem is KS himself. The crap he puts on his webpage and in forums is jsut retarded. His attitude needs an adjustment.

Omega people: don't complain so much about KS' past mistakes and don't constantly trash talk him when some of you don't know him or haven't tried his driver.
DNA People (KS Included): First of apologize for copying Omegas back in the day (if I remember correctly you admitted to doing it then later denied, but I can't remember) then adjust your attitude, yelling and being angry with the Omega people isn't exactly making it better...
Angel and KS: Keep making great drivers! - KS make sure your drivers are fully legal when you release your Cat 4.0 set, I realize you probably jsut wanted to minimize download size/time, but follow the rules man. Omega I love Catalyst releases, but don't forget about 53.03s for my poor friends (2 of my friends have nvidia one has a ti4200 8x and other has a geforce 3 ti500). They need ur ownage drivers bad
Everyone arguing: Stop wasting your time and filling tons of great forums with DNA vs Omega crap. They're drivers people let's not start a bloody war over 2 sets of modified drivers. Also, it's opinion let me use what ever drivers they want don't bash them or start arguments with them. It's a waste of time and will jsut end up devloping hate and rivalries.

Well it's 4:45 and I'm off to bed. Also, sorry about any errors or anything, but I'm tired and when I'm tired I spell bad, forget words, make sentences that make no sense, etc.

zerodamage · Jan 19, 2004, 10:45 AM

heheheh, i just got an idea. I will test the drivers in a Virtual PC environment and see how they run.

BetrayerX · Jan 19, 2004, 11:10 AM

If those tests at dark tweaker are real, Catalyst Maker should hire that guy (KS). LOL

CrapolaJola · Jan 19, 2004, 11:49 AM

Good point betrayer

zerodamage · Jan 19, 2004, 03:44 PM

Anandtech.com picked up on Neon's article. Good Job neon.
There are some interesting responses to it over there.

http://www.anandtech.com/news/shownews.html?i=21336

taraquin · Jan 19, 2004, 06:31 PM

to be honest, it`s nice that you take your time to test drivers against each other cowboy, but I think it is obvious that you had a negative attitude agains the dna drivers from the start, and that`s not a good start if you intend to make that test fair.I have a laptop with a r9000m, and I have treid both omega,dna and standard modded catalysts by patje.image quality have been best with the omegas but they hav always given me problems like very low speed, crashes, bugs etc. the dna-drivers I have tried had less bugs but IQ was a bit lower than the omegas. in the end the best drivers I have tried is the standard catalysts with the mobility modder from patje

I don`t mean to start a flame with this, but when comparishing drivers you should always let a third part test them. I think the statement about people wanting better IQ is just partially true because many people can`t afford to by the newest gfx-card eveytime it hit the shelves. I for instance prefer speed to IQ just because I want it to run smooth and that`s the most important for me.

~~Crash Override~~ · Jan 19, 2004, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by taraquin
to be honest, it`s nice that you take your time to test drivers against each other cowboy, but I think it is obvious that you had a negative attitude agains the dna drivers from the start, and that`s not a good start if you intend to make that test fair.I have a laptop with a r9000m, and I have treid both omega,dna and standard modded catalysts by patje.image quality have been best with the omegas but they hav always given me problems like very low speed, crashes, bugs etc. the dna-drivers I have tried had less bugs but IQ was a bit lower than the omegas. in the end the best drivers I have tried is the standard catalysts with the mobility modder from patje I don`t mean to start a flame with this, but when comparishing drivers you should always let a third part test them. I think the statement about people wanting better IQ is just partially true because many people can`t afford to by the newest gfx-card eveytime it hit the shelves. I for instance prefer speed to IQ just because I want it to run smooth and that`s the most important for me.

He is a third party

He is not staff on DriverHeaven in any way shape or form

He is just a member here who wanted to test them out

Trust me if he has a negative attitude about the creator of these its because hes been here all the times the creator of the DNAs has created false accounts and spammed this board and threatened its members.

He has also seen how the creator of the DNA drivers has threatened the HEAD of ATi's CATALYST PROGRAM

Tell me how a man who does things like that can even be considered trustworthy? Throw in the fact that if you read over this board and rage3d you will see proof of how he ripped of Omegas tweaks and then simply made a couple of his own and gave no credit. Plus he is doing it without a license agreement which is illegal.

Trust me its not worth it. Plus Neon is completely unbiased results wise. Sure he has his opinions, but the results are all true and not skewed.

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jan 19, 2004, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by taraquin
to be honest, it`s nice that you take your time to test drivers against each other cowboy, but I think it is obvious that you had a negative attitude agains the dna drivers from the start, and that`s not a good start if you intend to make that test fair.I have a laptop with a r9000m, and I have treid both omega,dna and standard modded catalysts by patje.image quality have been best with the omegas but they hav always given me problems like very low speed, crashes, bugs etc. the dna-drivers I have tried had less bugs but IQ was a bit lower than the omegas. in the end the best drivers I have tried is the standard catalysts with the mobility modder from patje I don`t mean to start a flame with this, but when comparishing drivers you should always let a third part test them. I think the statement about people wanting better IQ is just partially true because many people can`t afford to by the newest gfx-card eveytime it hit the shelves. I for instance prefer speed to IQ just because I want it to run smooth and that`s the most important for me.

Thanks, but as I said again and again I haven’t anything against the guy other then they way he’s is/has been acting for al long time. They were given their just chance. It seems to focus on error and differences that’s the nature of a review/comparison. The test environment was exact the results were all fair. If the installer worked fine there wouldn’t have been mention, if the drivers didn’t cause massive stability issues they wouldn’t have been mentioned.

I didn’t like that he was picking on my article before it was even completed but who wouldn’t be upset about that. The funny thing is the list of so called errors on his website I’ll shortly take the time to post response to each along with some absolute proof he’s lying yet again. Unlike killersneak when I say something I have some sort proof to back it up.

HsuGotaQ · Jan 19, 2004, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Posted by Killersneak
I like posting IP addresses of people that come here to bash the forums. As long as people (especially the ones like you from DriverHeaven) act and post normally I wont do anything. And I don't like eating routers

Anybody like to tell his ISP of what he's doing? Kinda illegal dont you think?

Link

The_Neon_Cowboy · Jan 19, 2004, 08:21 PM

It recommended leaving V-sync on unless you are benchmarking. It is commonly turned of when benchmarking so that you get higher fps and get better scores in benchmarks at the risk of IQ/tearing/artifacts. But, in real life in real games/apps etc. it recommended that V-sync be on or defaulted to on. Don't belive me? Read it for you selfs...

Quote:

V-sync: Vertical Synchronization. Also known as the vertical retrace signal. A term referring to the signal that redraws the vertical display of a CRT. How fast this signal is redrawn is referred to as the refresh rate. Usually given in Hertz (Hz), most videocards synchronize buffer swaps with the refresh rate, so framerates under these circumstances will never go past the refresh rate. Some videocards allow buffer swaps to happen without synching to the refresh rate. This will almost always result in faster framerate results, at the expense of visual quality. When a videocard renders without synching to the refresh rate, visual anomalies, such as tearing and shearing of the image, will occur. -

http://www.geocities.com/ewmpsi/dictionarytuv.html

Quote:

"Turning off V-Sync can lead to problems even visual artifacts and/or tearing."
http://www.zdnet.com/

Quote:

In Windows 2000 without V-SYNC, I get the most horrible screen lockups in D3: it'll run fine for 5 seconds at a very high FPS and then just jam on one frame for what seems like an eternity (But in reality is probably less than 300ms), and during this time the ship keeps moving, so when the screen un-locks I am often very disoriented and pointing somewhere I don't want to be pointed... It's certainly enough to make playing the game impossible, and very very frustrating. If I enable V-SYNC however, the lock-ups vanish, and the motion gets silky smooth! Don't ask me why V-SYNC fixes it - but it does! For this reason, I've dropped my D3 resolution down to 800 x 600 x 16 bit, where my refresh rate is 160Hz, so I can maximise the FPS with V-SYNC enabled. I never see more than 160 FPS as a result, but 160 is plenty as far as I'm concerned. http://www.planetdescent.com/

Quote:

Doesn't LCDs' lack of refresh rate takes tearing [explained in a somewhat different context here...] out of 3D games?

Answer:LCDs don't cure tearing. Just turn on vertical sync and nothing will exhibit tearing. LCD screens certainly can display tearing, quite badly, thanks to the 60Hz input signal that's all that many of them can handle. They don't flicker, but they're only being sent 60 full frames per second; that's the maximum frame rate you can possibly get with vsync on.The signal rate doesn't go up with vsync off, but you can see part of one frame and part of another on the one refresh; that's what "tearing" is. The lower the signal frame rate, the more noticeable this is likely to be. Signal frame rates don't come any lower than 60Hz, unless you put your modern PC away and break out the old Amiga.

http://www.dansdata.com/danletters046.htm

Quote:

However if screen glitching occurs it is recommended to enable this variable with a setting of 1 to make the game wait for the vertical sync signal from the monitor before redrawing the game screen. When this toggle is enable the maximum number of frames-per-second is limited to the vertical refresh rate of the monitor.
http://www.planetquake.com/

Quote:

DirectX Diagnostic Tool - Direct3D test may show scrambled spinning cube
The information in this article applies to the following configurations:

- ATI RADEON based graphics card
- CATALYST display driver suite
- Wait for Vertical Sync option is set to 'Always Off' in the ATI Direct3D Control Panel tab

When running the Direct3D test in the DirectX Diagnostic Tool, the spinning cube may appear scrambled or torn.The behaviour of the Direct3D test is dependent on the Wait for Vertical Sync settings located in the ATI Direct3D Control Panel tab in Display Properties. Selecting 'Always Off' disables Wait for Vertical Sync, allowing the Direct3D test to run at its highest possible frame rate, regardless of the refresh rate set for your display.Selecting 'Application Preference' or 'Always On' allows the DirectX Diagnostic Tool to synchronize the frame rate to the vertical retrace signal on your display, avoiding the tearing or scrambling appearance of the spinning cube that may occur at higher frame rates.

http://www.ati.com/support/infobase/4236.html

Quote:

...Wait for Vertical Sync

Enabling this will limit your frame-rate to the vertical sync rate (refresh-rate) of your monitor, but maintain image quality. You will want to enable this whenever possible (unless you're running performance benchmarks) as if you don't you may subject yourself to shimmering and tearing

...http://www.sharkyextreme.com/guides/hwGuides/article.php/10709_1463741__2

Quote:

....The biggest thing about the Catalyst 2.5 drivers is the "Wait for Vertical Sync" option now has an "Always On" choice, aka Forced VSync. VSync basically limits your framerate to your monitors vertical refresh rate, thereby reducing or eliminating texture tearing...

....It also has the new "Always On" option for the "Wait for Vertical Sync" slider, but it has one less option compared to the OpenGL slider. "Default Off" and "Default On" have been replaced with "Application Preference". DirectX requires an app or game to decide whether it wants VSync on or off when the application preferences slider is selected, so it wouldn't make sense to have "Default On" and "Default Off" there......

http://www.rage3d.com/content/reviews/video/ati9700p/index.php?page=8

Quote:

Wait for VSync - Setting this to "Application Preference" allows the application to treat this setting as enabled so it can match the rate at which scenes are being generated to the refresh rate of the monitor, improving quality. This is what most applications will do. But it also allows the application to generate the frame rates as fast as possible, even faster than the monitor refresh rate which is wasteful in the sense that the scene is rendered but never actually displayed on the monitor. Unless you're benchmarking, it's best to set this to "Always On" to improve quality and just change it to "Always Off" when you're benchmarking. A setting of "Always On" is also best for controller responsiveness since it helps keep the
application from wasting computer power on needless scene processing.
http://www.videocardupgrade.com/tweaking_video_card_driver_settings.shtml

Quote:

V-Sync mode. V-sync limits the highest possible frame rate to your Monitors refresh rate at any given resolution. Setting this to Auto will allow the Application/Game to determine whether V-sync is enabled or disabled (Defaulting to On). Setting this to Off will disable V-sync in all Direct3D Games/Applications, which can improve performance (Frames are rendered as fast as they can be regardless of refresh rate), although you may experience image tearing &/or input device/controller lag as a result. Setting this to On will enable V-sync & should provide best image quality (As there should be no visible tearing associated with it being disabled) & no controller lag should occur either, though the maximum frame rate will be limited as described earlier. I’d recommend leaving this set to On for best visual quality as a result unless you intend to benchmark Game performance. http://www.techspot.com/tweaks/geforce/geforce-3.shtml

There are many, many more sources you just have to look...

I'm growing tired of educating killersneak and his fans. Especially when I have to repeat me self a bloody dozen times and with proof and then you still question it it’s just a waste of my time.

HsuGotaQ · Jan 19, 2004, 08:55 PM

God damnit... I've tried time and time again to get this sneak dude to cool off, but even when I bring down you benchmark (not the benches themself, but your way of formulating things that are meant to attack someone. Note that the benchmarking and every point you've brought out clearly indicates his "problem" with his addiction for modifying Omega's drivers) and those that he has shown (One that shows that his DNA only seem to be good in 2 or 3 tests out of 15+, and another that only tests 2 games!?) he still goes on to say that it's a lie. Man... plus the thing about posting IPs... ohh.... I'd like someone to bring a freakin "MISE EN DEMEUR" (if one speaks french to say lawsuit... that means he's pissed o%*).

Neon : The whole bringing down thing was so that I could post on his site to see his reaction without being banned too fast. No hard feeling hopefully.

HsuGotaQ · Jan 19, 2004, 09:10 PM

Oh. Anybody that has there IP listed here please contact me so that I can send his ISP a letter to tell them to get Killersneak to at least respect the privacy laws and to make the according changes. (I would rather see them backslap his ass, but at least one legal method is better than nothing)

emailthatguy · Jan 22, 2004, 06:20 AM

wow i rarely post here. now i know why, this place is as bad as rage3d's forums.

toddsmack2k · Jan 22, 2004, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by emailthatguy
wow i rarely post here. now i know why, this place is as bad as rage3d's forums.

Sorry you feel that way but hey thanks for visiting us!

EcPercy · Jan 22, 2004, 10:46 AM

"emailthatguy"

People are entitled to their opinions.

DriverHeaven is not responsible for KillerSneak taking the files from the Omega Driver releases and using them in his own. This may not be going on now, but I saw the posts where KS admitted he was using some of Omega's work. At the least he should include something in the release notes saying thanks for the files and maybe email Omega asking to use them. That however is beside the point. KS is acting very unprofessional. KS seems to think that "he" created these drivers. KS did not write anything. KS is tweaking the drivers that ATI Wrote. KS is also breaking the law by distributing ATI's drivers without their permission, but the biggest thing that is against the law is that KS has removed the ATI License Agreement and Welcome Screen.

I have also browsed the boards for DNA. I would not trust the drivers that KS tweaks because of all the problems I am seeing over there. Take this one for instance http://www.dna-drivers.nl/viewtopic.php?t=387
I would not chance not being able to boot my computer because of a bug that KS can't find.

I use the Cat's directly from ATI and thats it. Don't try to sit there and act like I am in some way affiliated with DH. I am not. I am only a DH member and am offering my views on this whole thing.

Your bud, KS, needs to stop acting like a 13 year old kid. Going from place to place telling people that they can't review his drivers is silly. KS seems to think that if his "beta testers" do not provide the benchmarks they are not legit. I would not trust your opinion of the drivers. You will probably be biased as well. I would ask a very well known source in computer reviews to test the drivers and see, but then you would think that the thing is rigged as well. I will also not give KS any more publicity than he is already getting.

One last thing. I am still waiting on KS to get his drivers out the door before the Omega Drivers. Maybe if he can get this done people will believe that he doesn't copy the Omega release since he always has a release one or two days after the Omega Drivers.

digitalwanderer · Jan 22, 2004, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by emailthatguy
wow i rarely post here. now i know why, this place is as bad as rage3d's forums.

Does anyone else tend to notice a trend in the supporters of DNA/detractors of DH in this thread? None of 'em seem to know how to capitilize, punctuate, spell, or even articulate well. It's very annoying and makes it damned hard to take any of them seriously.

shortstuff · Jan 22, 2004, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by emailthatguy
wow i rarely post here. now i know why, this place is as bad as rage3d's forums.

You rarely post here? You just joined the site today. If you don't like this place then why did you even join? You can read the threads without registering or posting.

As far as this place being as bad as Rage3d I think you need to go back and read some of the threads in Rage3d's off-topic then come back and the ones here. You are sadly mistaken if that is what you think.

zerodamage · Jan 22, 2004, 01:38 PM

I think this thread has run its course. It is time to move on and continue the flaming in the flame forums. Thanks everyone for your input. It is greatly appreciated.