Iria

Source: PC World
_________
You rarely hear about a new OS causing people to panic. But IT consultant Scott Pam says that's exactly what his small-business clients are doing when they install Windows Vista on new PCs and run smack into compatibility or usability roadblocks.

JuicyBrain

I have said this before. Main people who dont like Vista is simply because they dont like change.. human nature. As this study identified XP has become and extension of this persons personality and so when they change to Vista suddenly everything "feels" uncomfortable.

Robert McClelland

I wish MS make DX 10 work with xp then it be perfect world everone be happy lol. I still don't know if I even want vista I'm happy with xp right now Iria what time you go bed? lol keep up good work.

__________________
"XTREME AUDIO IS CRAP!" "There no support for it. It's crapist card on face of the earth it should be throw into the sun"

OmegaRED

I've spent more time watching Apple ads mocking Vista than actually using my copy of Vista Ultimate

The gaming performance in Xp is the clincher for me.

__________________

ViRuS2k

hahaha source : PC WORLD lol... seeing that alone made me refuse to read the artical.

ExitiosuS

Psh, I love Windows Vista.

But, initially I was taken in by its good looks... now, I don't even really know. It's mostly about how nice it feels in contrast to XP. XP is so boring-feeling, and Aero just makes my computer go *whee*.

Anyway... aside from that, Crysis looks great in DX10. I love that too.
Going back to XP'll never happen for me... Vista's a winner, and clicking on that start menu at the bottom right, with the cute little blue bubble makes my day every day.

Yepp... I love you Microsoft.

You're so cute.... yes you are... red, green, yellow, and blue are my new patriotic colours.

Sandok

I had Vista for a long time and now... gave up. It's just too clumsy and sluggish whereas XP runs fine on my systems.

It's pretty and I liked some of the features but in the end, speed > all.

craig5320

I think Vista's experience comes down to what you're running it on, When I first bought it I ran it on an old AMD 3500+ and it seemed terrible, good in what it was trying to do, but just unwilling.

The story changed when I changed to a Core2 Duo it was like a new piece of software, but I still reached areas that trawled, no more than XP did in places tho. But now it's cruising and XP is never leaving its CD case at my house.

my2c.

Craig

__________________

Zardon

Anderson likened the reaction to XP's impending demise to what happened in the 1980s when Coca-Cola replaced its classic Coke formula with New Coke, causing massive protests by customers who had no reason to change what they drank. The protests forced the company to bring back what we now call Coke Classic. "XP has come to the point of being Coke Classic," he said, with Vista playing the role of New Coke.


That, just about sums that "article" up. classic, for all the wrong reasons. I personally would actually call Vista "Jolt supercharged Cola". Xp running eight core systems is considerably slower due to the older multicore kernal support. Vista x64 is the only OS I would use now for multicore support as well as better memory management especially in systems with 4gb+ far less fragmentation. This and the fact that a lot of the aspects of Vista people complain about can be TURNED off... I wish these industry journalists were a little more founded in the technical side of things rather than ranting on about a default out of the box solution because they can't work out how to customise it.

Veridian3

I cant remember the last time i had any sort of problem with vista. All of the systems I use run it and all of our reviews are performed on it... never causes any issues and I really think it is excellent in my everyday use.

mkk

I'm sorta glad that I can run Vista x64 even if I have to press F8 at every bootup, but while I can't say that I hate it I don't expect to truly like Vista even if the final version of SP1 is what it's supposed to be. For me it's completely understandable that XP sales have been rising over the last six months. The average user won't have the system it takes to really make Vista fly, and with all the "little" bugs and misfeatures even having such a system doesn't equal a good experience.

Zardon

why do you have to hit F8 at every bootup?

mkk

That unsigned driver block that can't be turned off anymore.

Zardon

oh yeah the 64 bit OS added extra. I am lucky I am not using any unsigned drivers mind you. which is the problem driver for you mkk?

Zelig

Unless I missed something, doesn't rivatuner still need unsigned driver support?

__________________
--

Rizen

yeah rivatuner still needs unsigned driver support, I use ready boot so i don't have to hit F8 every time. You can find it here.
Uhlikova osobná stránka - ReadyDriver (EN)

It automaticly hits F8 and turns off driver signing

Zardon

only if the drivers aren't WHQL.

Zardon

Really? thats most strange im using rivatuner with an nvidia set and I can get access to all the functions, such as fan speed etc and I don't get any alerts. Great link you shared, Didn't even know that application was out.

Sandok

That's for sure... Both my PCs are dual cores but Vista still bogs them down... And while it might be better for 8 or 16 core PCs, I think that accounts for less than 0.1% of the PC world at the moment.

It's just not as "streamlined" as I want.

Zardon

I don't agree at all, I have seen improvements with dual core and quad core cpus on many levels, and I have done extensive testing with this. If you have 2GB of ram in vista and you set it up right it can now be faster than XP (it wasn't at launch).

Underlying in Vista there are some improvements to the kernal, while vista uses more ram on startup if you hit the sweet spot with 2gb it actually manages it better than XP, there are also improvements with offloading processes to multiple cores. I could go on, but im finding that public persception on Vista is unfortunately being clouded by two groups of people. those who are quite happy with XP and unwilling to try something new and those who are reading a lot of poorly written articles on tech sites. I would love to know the percentage of these articles which are written based on illegal and poorly cracked Vista images also, I know at least 2, but ill not get into that in public either.

I agree running an old single core processor with 1gb or less of memory is not going to get the best out of Vista compared to XP but I think this particular audience on our site is very small. This is in fact why all our game testing and hardware testing is via the new OS. We need to move with the times, we all want DX10 gaming, I know I do, and that will improve across this year, ive seen some killer behind the scenes code coming to your screens in the not too distant future.

YAYitsAndrew

I upgraded to vista and I'm never looking back. I'm actually kicking myself for not getting vista on my laptop that I bought 6 months ago, opting for xp instead. I guess that's what I get for listening to news sites and know-it-alls who don't know a thing about computers or haven't touched a copy of vista for more than 10 minutes.

Lucky for me some of the more missed features, like breadcrumbs in the explorer bar, have been created as software for xp.
QuizoApps: QTAddressBar

__________________
"It is because the resistance to paying for copyrighted material, although often characterized as arising from a supposed technical burden or principled concern for the public interest, arises rather from exactly the same segment of the brain that is dominant in shoplifters."
- Mark Helprin, Digital Barbarism

So you think piracy isn't hurting anyone?
www.yayitsandrew.com

craig5320

I think vista is an operating system for the next gen, you can't expect MS to make an OS with all the bells and whistles and run's perfectly on hardware 2/3yrs old. It run's good on a dual core E6600 and above with aero, if you're running less than that then turn off aero or even go to classic and i'm sure you're sluggishness will for the best part be solved.

Vista is going to be with us for the next 8 years at least, and I'd rather have the bells and whistles so in 5 years time on my 32 core monster machine I can enjoy them.

XP is more than 7years old now, that's as old as Windows 95 when XP launched. I remember trying to run XP on my Athlon 800 and it wasn't such a happy bunny, it's no different now.

My hardware was all out a year before Vista launched and it runs Vista fine. If you have basic hardware, use Vista Basic.

__________________

BlueMak

Wouldn't that be a problem if you need to use the F8 for something else?

__________________
The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

Sandok

I was using Vista for 4 months before coming back to XP (Vista was offered with my XPS M1330 so I decided to try it out) and I gave up. My PC was correctly set up and was doing well, but the software compatibility problems and the generally slow boot I was experiencing just got to me in the end.

As I said, my laptop is a M1330 and that means I use it for the basics (such as taking notes, doing presentations and such at university). It didn't have bootloads of RAM or CPU power (given that battery is much more important for me) and as a result, Vista just bogged it down. I loved some of the advantages but honestly, it's always the SMALL things that bother me and that's what got to me in the end.

As for my main desktop, the fact that I can't "move" the My Doc folder to another hardrive without creating copies on the main hardrive (browsed tons of forums, I'm not alone in this) was just stupid. And I don't even have Vista Ultimate, only Vista Home Premium (so not as bloated with the HDD encryption thingy and such...) and I found it just annoying after a while. I loved Aero but for all the "new coding", I couldn't really see a benefit (I don't consider 1 second quicker compression in Winrar a real benefit).

But as you said, an old machine would suffer this sluggishness but I have a decent rig with a new Core2Duo CPU, plenty of RAM, a good GPU and SATAII drives but still I found it slow. Maybe SP1 will make me change my mind but given that I don't have the time or money to upgrade every other day with the latest DX10 graphic cards or 8 core CPUs, I think I can live without Vista easily till SP2.

However, I agree the article is a bit whatever and I'm glad to see DH (as well as other PC sites) using Vista for their testing, which is normal in my opinion, that's how it should be.

geraldmango

Hate to argue, but the fact you are seeing SLOWER boot times with vista is already a telling sign. Vista boots considerably faster, Microsoft overhauled the dynamic DLL loading considerably. I am afraid I would point to your installation regarding this. Compatibility problems? I haven't seen any. I run all my games, all my office apps. browse the net. even code in javascript and PHP perfectly fine.

How much ram?

Who on earth stores files on the main boot drive anyway in the my doc folder? You are aware if the OS goes belly up you lose everything. set up a partition or another HD, and put all your documents STRAIGHT into it.

I have a similar system and mine boots faster than XP, looks better, and I can play DX10 games. Not sure why I would want XP on it anymore. Obviously something wrong with your installation as I said earlier.

You DONT need an 8 core pc to enjoy vista, this is ridiculous, and just because Zardon says it runs great on an 8 core system doesnt mean it wont run just as well on a dual or quad. ive one of both and after using it I wouldnt have XP near me, just like andrew said earlier in this thread. Its fine saying you dont like microsoft or vista, but im sorry, some of your comments in this thread either point to a pirated OS, or user error. I can see no other way of buttering it up nicely. If the guys on DH have their rigs on it and Zardon says he can do all his work on one, and all the testing procedures are handled with vista, thats a good indication its working fine. Just because you had issues doesnt mean there are problems. There are quite a lot of reviews on DH with vista as the main OS and the benchmark figures are exactly what I see myself.

a bit ? but this is the first sensible thing ive heard you saying today !

Methious

I run Vista with no problems on an X2 6400/8800gt rig, but I dual boot with separate hard drives for compatibility with non-Vista programs. The only time I've had problems with Vista is cross platform networking on a funky wireless network where they were using the network for internet and inter office networking.

Changing all the networking hardware to the same Vista/XP compatible wireless networking components cost them a few bucks, but solved all issues.

Vista is just a fact of life, for years to come it'll be "the operating system" for main stream users. XP support will diminish (like all others have) and Vista will have it's decade in the sun. At least it's not like the 1999-2002 period, win 98, millennium, 2000, nt and the win 95 die hards, now that was an interesting chapter in the on-going operating system evolution.

SFOSOK

Any chance of seeing a vista setup guide ? Especially how to optimize it for games. I don't have Vista yet but have dealt with it a bit. I don't really know how easy it is to set it up right but I'm sure there will be a lot of people who could benefit from a simple quickstart guide.

__________________
*Warning* - Explicit Content Preceeding



METAL!!

Zardon

Seriously man, that is an awesome idea, Stuart and myself have discussed it before as we both have an amount of tweaks we apply for the OS to get it running the way we like. Everytime we see one of these articles we pick up the phone and say "damn we really need to get something up to counter all this fud"....... Unfortunately we have a room full of hardware to test and we really need more hardware reviewers right now so that has to take priority.

Sandok

You obviously don't use the same apps as me. Kaspersky is slower with Vista and makes the boot times REALLY long (reported problem by Kaspersky themselves, apparently the next version will fix this). That's my major compbatibility problem. As for slower Vista boots, google it and browse the tons of forums that have this annoying slowdown.

1GB for my XPS system, 2GB for the other.

That's EXACTLY what I do. All my documents are on my second harddrive. However, I tell XP that that's where my document folder is and it complies perfectly (because I like the shortcut). Vista doesn't... why?

My install is fine, please I'm not that computer illeterate. Clean install and all the official drivers but as I said, Kaspersky is causing a problem and I refuse to use a subpar AV to replace it with. As for DX10, I don't own a DX10 game and don't have a DX10 card so doesn't matter. Looks are prettier but I can live without it.

Obviously you don't need a 8 Core PC, I know but even with my dual core PCs, I fail to see many advantages. I love MS and I have plenty of products from them (Xbox 360, XP, Office 2007, Vista, etc). If you read my posts, I'm sure you'll see that I got my Vista WITH my laptop and unless Dell is evil, it's legit. As for user error, I never said I have major problems. I said it's the little things that bother me.

DH among other sites use Vista which is fine, but "I" don't like it as much as XP and the kernel changes don't apply to me or my system. Does that make me a pirating MS hater?

The OS has bugs and while it may be better than XP was at launch, PERSONALLY I don't find it fits my requirements or my needs. And judging from it's adoption rate, I'm not alone. I'll willingly switch when the kinks I dislike are fixed.

geraldmango

Ok problem solved then, the software makers who program Kaspersky are at fault, they are fixing it. Ever heard of using something free like Avast which works perfectly fine with Vista and has done for a long time avast! antivirus software - computer virus, worm and Trojan protection by ALWIL Software? If a software developer takes THIS long to get something to work with the new MS OS then I would have left them long ago.

This has nothing to do with microsoft, so stop claiming its a fault with Vista. As for browsing forums about Vista slow down problems on boot, are you really advocating that the average punter on a forum has a clue what he is talking about? These same guys did the same crap with XP when they moved from windows 98. I choose the information I read and trust, I don't believe 99% of the crap out there, thats why I frequent DH. The guys in charge here know what they are talking about.


ok, then I suggest you try SP1 and use programs that DON'T have problems like kaspersky, at least until they fix them ! seriously.

Make a shortcut on your desktop to a documents folder on another Hard drive, when you save anything put it in there, saves you the effort of even browsing for it. Surely thats easy enough?


Ok, so let me word it this way. A guy comes to you and says "dude my car sucks, its running like crap". you ask him "what petrol are you using?". he replies with "I use the stuff I know the engine doesn't like but so what? It's the cars fault!".

This is exactly what you are doing with Vista. You are running outdated, incompatible software that the company is fixing and you are blaming vista for it. Have you any idea how silly this sounds? There are LOADS of alternatives out there, ive already linked one. So before you claim you are literate, at least test the software right. So far we have found out you have ran Pre SP1 Vista (haven't even tried the new one), and have used software on it with known issues. Sorry, but that doesn't cut it. If you can't be bothered doing it right, then stop spouting nonsense on the forums.

Well at least try a few, it seems you haven't even bothered looking, amongst other things.

Are you sure you are on the right forum? really? This is Driver Heaven one of the leading tech and gaming sites. If you think like that go back to windows 98, it has less overhead, looks like crap and will do all you need. Hell it might even run Kaspersky for you perfectly.


But how can you even profess to claim this when the only time you have tested vista is with an incompatible program slowing boot times and causing probably a whole array of under the hood issues. Until you try SP1 with compatible programs and drivers your point has absolutely no meaning or ground, its just more white noise with the rest of the uneducated vista haters. Its almost as bad as me trying linux and claiming "It sucks, I cant get my XP ATI drivers to load right".

Like not making a shortcut to documents and files on another hard drive? The fact you haven't a clue what you are talking about as you haven't ran Vista in the state it was meant to be run and that you haven't even tried the SP1 build? What kind of intelligent, justified statement is this to be making on such an educated forum as Driver Heaven?

Rubbish, you don't want to like it. You haven't even tried it properly yet.

No, but it makes you something else I can't post in here or ill get banned.

Its adoption rate? what over 90 million installations to this present time? (last may it already had 20 million sold Vista adoption rate 'twice as fast' as XP's - The Tech Report) I think you are reading sites like Pcworld too much. get your head out of the sand and try things properly before you condemn them to "not suiting your needs" or "having bugs". The only bugs I see here are user inflicted.