Vikingod

Source: AnandTech
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Business and technology are forever linked together in one inseparable mass. Technology drives business: it drives new products, it drives improvements in efficiency, it drives companies out of business. Business drives technology: it drives what gets researched, it drives what gets invented, it drives the pace of technological progress. Each drives the other, the feedback from each further changing how one or the other progresses.

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dj_stick

i tihnk if they started licensing EAX5, they may lose soundcard sales, but damn they'd bring in the royalties

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BlueMak

Am I the only one finding onboard audio CRAP compared to X-Fi sound? The article makes it sound like onboard audio is the same in terms of quality as a seperate soundcard which IMO is nothing but BS.
If you use any decent pair of speakers, even about $30-40 or a more than $15 headphones you should be able to hear the difference between an X-Fi and an onboard solution. It's like comparing FM radio to CD audio for sound quality.

I don't doubt the numbers given for sales and money, but to claim or suggest the onboard solutions are as good as seperate soundcards is very far from the truth.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

mkk

Signal quality has been and will remain the big difference using a decent soundcard, that's for sure. Since hardware acceleration has become less of an issue from the manufacturers point of view "thanks to" Vista there should be more openings for non-creative products on the market. Someone could also aim to beat Creative into providing a PCIe card. A small and essentially featureless PCIe card with decent components would be good enough for me and I think many others, screw EAX and sound altering "Crystailty/CMSS" effects.

Perhaps the market has gotten so small that none not already established actors would even think of venturing into it.

mike2h

i think my x-fi is great, but i am going to be very unhappy if it gives me problems when i finally get around to installing vista. i do have hope though ,as my wifes audigy2 has no probs with vista. & it also sounds better than the onboard sound.

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Tril

Well it's closer to the truth than it was 12 years ago. I remember that my onboard soundcard 12 years ago sounded much worse than my Sound Blaster 16 of the time. The difference in quality is smaller these days.

Right now, if you want a Creative X-Fi, I think some people would recommend a Auzentech X-Fi Prelude 7.1. You're getting a better card with better support.

BlueMak

I don't disagree with that. But to claim the sound that you get with a good soundcard is the same as with onboard audio "even" today, is as wrong as it gets. Use anything but the cheapest speakers and the difference is very easy to spot.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

BlueMak

I couldn't care less about Creative. I had problems with their hardware small and not so small for years now. Apart from the SB16 that is.
I don't know if you use headphones, but if you do then I don't see how you could say "screw CMSS". Sure, it is nothing but a better qsound of a dosen years ago, but it works and it does make 3D sound with headphones so much better.

As for EAX, while it is not the most important thing in gaming, the difference is still there. Combined with CMSS the difference is nothing less that in your face. Or something.

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The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others(Bertrand Russell)"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil,You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." - Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis
This is slavery, not to speak one's thought. [Euripides-The Phoenician Women (c.411-409 B.C.)] http://www.macedonia.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm Sic semper tyrannis.

Tipstaff

Hate to say it, but Creative is already in the PCIE market with an X-Fi Xtreme Audio PCIE card. Only issue is that just like with the PCI version most of the card is software driven.

Speaking of which, one thing I really hate about Creative is how all over the place their line of cards are, and how they never mention the fact that some of their cards are software based, and not hardware based. There is this huge assumption that all of their cards are hardware based, yet they aren't. The flak I've had to deal with because of this fact is just stupid, and it could be avoided if Creative were just honest about what each card is actually capable of.

Take the Xtreme Audio.. it is not a hardware based sound card, but in fact software driven through and through. Yes, Creative doesn't claim it is hardware driven, but they also don't say it doesn't. It just isn't mentioned on their site or the product literature at all. However, people buy this card cuz it's a dirt cheap X-Fi card, and they assume it is a hardware accelerated sound card. The amount of complaints I've read about this card, and it's crap gaming peformance is unbelievable, and it could have all been avoided if Creative had just said, "It's not for gaming. If you game on it, your performance will suck."

In any case, cards like the Sondigo Inferno, which is a much better sound card btw, or even the Auzentech X-Plosion are all selling better than Creatives cards, and Creative knows it. How is it that 2 cards that clearly have a higher CPU utilization than their cards are selling better? 2 Reasons: better sound cards, and people are fed up with Creative. Hell, if it wasn't for EAX, and now OpenAL support, Creative would be long dead and buried.

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OmegaRED

I totally got suckered into buying this card (an impulse buy) and not only would the POS not even install but I was shocked to learn it wasn't even a real X-Fi and my Audigy2 was way better. Got an exchange on it otherwise I'd have smashed it to pieces. I knew Creative were kinda sneaky but this practice makes them scum.

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Judas

Die in a car fire creative...

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Matth

I have fond memories of Creative - my old SB16 MCD ASP, and of support and getting an update sent to me on floppy.

Sadly, as they went cheaper, they went bad. They bought Ensoniq, and messed it up.

The real killer, once upon a time, you wanted sound, you needed a card - now, it is impossible to buy a motherboard without onboard sound, and unlike onboard graphics, onboard sound can be usable at anything other than professional levels.

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Mary had a little lamb,
Her father shot it dead
Now Mary takes her lamb to school,
Between two crusts of bread

Tipstaff

Anyone remember Acers AX4BE-533 and AX4GE Tube-G Tube motherboards? Expensive, but man.. what sound.. and from an AC97 audio chip to boot. Both ran Realteks RTL650 AC97 with a Soltek 6922 vacuum tube. I had the latter board, and damnit.. I miss it. Such a full and rich sound...

<sigh> Those were the days....

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Judas

RTL650?

..... never heard of either boards...

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Zelig

Except it sounds significantly worse. I'm in agreement with BlueMak here... there's a huge difference in plugging my speakers into my onboard sound vs. my Audigy 2 ZS.

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Maddogg6

I LOVED creative when I got my AWE32 for win 3.1
Their driver updates actually added features - then the SBLive came out - and so did the bloatware - I was happy to find other people making drivers for that card - I think I used creative drivers for 2 months in the 7 years I owned (still installed no less) it.

I bought my A2 ONLY because kX drivers supported it.

My next card will be pro-am audio (ASIO) and a mobo with 'ok' sound for movies/games...

Creative lost me as a customer with the reviews of the (third time today I used this term here) over hyped X-Fi.

Judas

ADI = shit
Intels own hd audio = garbage
other onboard solution = worse yet.... pwuke

Realtek HD ALC88x = pretty damn impressive....

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clicker666

It's all about the drivers and functionality for me. I decided to plug my Audigy in when Bioshock came out. Crash, crash, crash. (Vista 64) My onboard Realtek, works great, and has all the way through Vista. I know there is an audible difference in the sound, but I can't deal with the driver issues. Yes, Vista is the issue, but by now Creative should have their act together. From what I read, even with their newer high quality cards, they still don't.

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Zelig

Is it significantly better than the ALC850? I've got the ALC850 on my current motherboard, and it sounds pretty junky.

Actually, brought up the spec sheets, snr for the ALC850 is only 86. Of the ALC88x line, only the ALC889 (110 snr) and ALC885 (106 snr) are comparable to an Audigy 2 ZS (108 snr).

For comparison, some of the best consumer soundcards in terms of snr are the Auzentech X-Meridian 7.1 DTS Connect (115), Creative X-Fi Elite Pro (116), M-Audio Audiophile 192 (113), and the Razer Barracuda (117).

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Tipstaff

P4 board, 845E/845GE chipset, and came out about 4 1/2 years ago.

As for the Realtek RTL650, I know why it's not coming to mind. It's more commonly known as the ALC650. Pretty much all AC97 Realtek chips say ALCxxx, but I remember that in this case it was referred to as RTL650 on the box. This would also be about a year or 2 after Realtek acquired Avance Logic, so that could explain why it was referred to as a Realtek chip, and not ALC.

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Judas

i see... tipstaff



zelig..

the ALC850 is one of the very LAST AC'97 chips..... it isn't HD Audio at all... it's the older standard.. and i can tell you with certainty as i've had 2 boards with it.... that while it's analog isn't "to bad"..... it's nowhere near the quality of the HD Realtek Audio....

Guaranteed, each proceeding Realtek HD audio chipset is going to improve to the point that it will technically fully replace/beat out the other sound cards.... in terms of quality.... Performance is also quite excellent.. and so is functionality considering what you can do with it.. (3 seperate audio streams from a single device at the same time... AKA Front panel/Digital/Rear Analog)

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