RAM performance discussion

PangingJr

Edit by Grace : This is a split from this thread, which got WAY off topic:

Building new PC soon, need advice.



for Gigabyte P35 based with DDR2 motherboards, as of today BIOS's... system memory performance will be dropped off quite a lot after 416 CPU FSB, all the way to 500+, this seems the same on all of the available memory multiplier under the motherboard's BIOS. some said the memory performance start to pick up at 510 FSB, but i just can't confirm this yet.

as of now, even i'm at 500 CPU FSB the memory performance is still not good at all, this unless i use the Memset program to tweak DRAM timings in Windows. and without the Memset the best memory performance vs. system performance that i can receive from the board stock BIOS is at up to 416 CPU FSB and running DRAM:FSB 5:4.

ChaosMinionX

All boards need to be like 680i and allow for independent ram clocking and FSB...... im at 500x7 DDR2 1000 4-4-4-10 with some tight tight timings... I pull over 10k read in everest, and over 9k write/copy with like 49ns..... so far 1:1 runs fastest for me as of BIOS 0501

I would love to crank it out a bit more, but the way the divider works running DDR2 1000 at 500 requires 1333mhz strap, 1066 is reserved for 1250 and higher..... and my performance at 400x9 1066 running DDR2 1000 is far less than 500. Im hoping X38 is better, if it can clock a quadcore well, I will be dumping the P5K Deluxe, and if it cant I will be getting an Asus Blitz based mobo

PangingJr

Gigabyte P35-DS4 "BETA F5f" BIOS has now picked up some good memory performance back to the system...

i can now see the Everest's memory benches at almost 9.2K read, 8.5K write, 7.5K copy and 55ns without any DRAM timing tweaks and in only 472x7, i set in BIOS for 5-5-5-15 and choose the Turbo memory enhancement option, this's it. i think, when select this option the BIOS will pick up some DRAM timing vaules of SPD's and/or from EPP, and the DRAM timings are now better than before, the released BIOS F4 that comes with the board has been issuing some very loose DRAM timings.

ChaosMinionX

Not to jack the thread, but if you have an option between a Turbo Mem enhancer, and DRAM Static Read.....go for the static read, you will probably see more performance as I did with teh P5K Dlx

PangingJr

i believe the Turbo feature in this Gigabyte board's BETA BIOS, once selected, it grabs the vaules of SPD's, and these vaules will be optimized by the chipset (MCH), and it's now done automatically. before under the BIOS F4 this feature were not work this well.

in my case, the memory timings that has been written for the @ 400MHz 5-5-5-15 are now in use by the system, even though the memory are running at a much higher frequency, this is why i quite easily notice some of memory performance improvement.
if i always run my memory at the frequency of 400MHz (DDR2-800MHz), i probably won't notice the differences there, but i have been running them like 550MHz+ in the past week.

if you take memory timings values from the memory module's SPD and calculates for Write to Precharge and Write to read command values and then feed these values into the Memset program, then it's almost the same optimized setting that is done by the MCH with a help from the Turbo feature.
and then the Memset program can still be used for manually done system memory optimizing even more.

and in the case that the memory is DDR2-1066 CAS 5 and comes with EPP, and the system is not overclocked, then the Turbo feature will be activated automatically at the system start up for the first time, the board is also provide a 2.2V to run the CAS 5 at speed 1066MHz with the EPP spec timing.

PangingJr

ChaosMinionX,
as for the 1:1 runs the fastest... have a look at these results from my P35-DS4's and how it MCH is doing...


all of the below use this same memory timing/sub-timings.




E6300 @ 416x7 = 2,912 MHz, 1.335V
DRAM:FSB = 5:4,
Memory clock 520 MHz @ DDR2-1040, 2.1V





@ 486x7 = 3,402 MHz, 1.45V
DRAM:FSB = 6:5,
Memory clock 583 MHz @ DDR2-1166, 2.25V





@ 492x7 = 3,444 MHz, 1.45V
DRAM:FSB = 1:1,
Memory clock 492 MHz @ DDR2-984, 2.2V




anyway, i don't own Asus P35 based board, however i think Asus may tweaks the P35's MCH, but Gigabyte has conservative memory strap, and 1:1 in 1333 strap has less memory performance, and 5:6 which is also can be used, and it seems to give a better memory performance.

so on my Gigabyte P35 based... unlike the P965 based that i will use any mid speed memory modules and run 1:1,
now, on my P35 board i run 4:5 for most of CPU FSB upto 416x7, then 5:6 or 1:1 for anything above 416 to 500 CPU FSB,
however, as you can see, 5:6 has had a far better result than running 1:1, however i still need more free time to check these out again.


@ 500x7 = 3,500 MHz, 1.50V
DRAM:FSB = 4:5,
Memory clock 625 MHz @ DDR2-1250, 2.3V

ChaosMinionX

Interesting, I think Asus does alot more tuning of the MCH...DDR2 1250 on my board is 1066 strap, but i run 5-5-5-15 is slower than 4-4-4-10 DDR2 1000..... I need to play with it more and find a sweet spot.

PangingJr

compare these 2 results...

the first one is 505x7,
set in BIOS... 1:1, 4-4-4-12 DDR2-1010.
and this's checked for results before using Memset...




and this second one which was quite a good result for lower CPU FSB, imo.
416x7, set in BIOS (no Memset)... CPU FSB 416x7, PCIE 101MHz (this causes system to boot 417x7), 2:3, DDR2-1251 (3x417), Turbo, CAS 5-5-5-15 and TRD=5 (this BIOS DRAM setting, equivalent to the Performance Level in Memset program).

Lowfat

1:1 definately far from the fastest on a Gigabyte P35 board. If you use Mem Set you'll see with 1:1 memory ratio, the Performance Level (NB strap) is loose as can be. 5:6 and 4:5 have a much tigher strap even when over 500MHz. If you can handle a 4:5 ratio, you'll be better off, however if you want to use Mem Set everytime you boot up to tighten the strap that would work too.

Hope that makes sense.

ChaosMinionX

Interesting, I will be playing around with it tonight when I get my new scores in ....waiting on delivery of card... Anyways that looks very interesting Low&Pang... I will post results tonight.

PangingJr

i still don't understand the reason that while booting 416x7 the Memtest86 displays my memory bandwidth as 5687 MB/s,
then the bandwidth drops to 3943 MB/s when the system boot with 418x7.... and if i can recall it was only 4,xxx MB/s something at 500x7

Lowfat

Yes that has to do with the 1066 NB strap switching over to 1333, so looser internal timings.

PangingJr

i kinda figured that, it's just i didn't expect this would happen.
when i got the motherboard a week ago, after i put things together i first boot the system with default CPU clock, set up RAID and had a Windows installed,
booted into Windows once and then got back into BIOS, and set it to boot 500x7 1:1, and ran Memtest, then i saw the memory bandwidth that Memtest displays, i said to myself this was something wrong cause the bandwidth was so low, then after a few reboots into BIOS later i found the 416 (or 416+1) CPU FSB that it will give the system the most memory bandwidth.

and i didn't like what i saw when running 1:1 from the beginning, however, from all the memory modules that i got, these existing ones will give me the highest DDR2 speed, and they will only go that far as 1270MHz, and i want to back off a bit, so it must be 5:6 that i would use.
and just now i don't have a CPU with a more higher FSB wall, if there is one exist, i like to see something at around 550x7.

PangingJr

i think, an easy to get a good performance or even more than enough performance out off the Gigabyte P35 based board, you need to make sure that the processor and memory modules that you will use with the board, both are able to run on a higher multiplier. i don't think you will ever need to run the system with a very high CPU FSB at all.
you just need to set CPU FSB at something below 416, but however, the P35 based will perform best with a more higher memory multiplier (3x, 3.2x, 2.5x or even 2.4x) then just 2.0x.

ChaosMinionX

See the Asus loves FSB the most..... I couldnt get any performance outta lower fsb and dividers with ram.

Lowfat

PangingJr, have you tried MemSet at all?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=92190

With the Performance Level setting you are able to play around with the NB strap setting, so you'll be able to get much more performance with anything over 417MHz. I was able to run my Performance Level down to 7 instead of 11 with default MCH voltage.

PangingJr

i used to use Memset program on the very first day i got my board, as of now i don't need to use it at all, i can set it in the BIOS,
for CPU FSB above 470x7 to 500x7 i can boot with Performance Level 5, just by setting... 5-5-5-15 tRD=5 and select the Performance Enhance as Turbo or Extreme (this setting only work for my memory modules in some CPU FSB, but the Turbo is always work). then after booted, you can start the Memset and the Performance Level will be 5. and if you cannot boot with tRD=5 try 6 or 7 then you can try to use the the Memset in Windows later to adjust the Performance Level to 5 or 6.

in my case, the Memset won't help much at all, now, it's almost has no use for me.


============================



P35-DS4 "F5f" BETA BIOS....


--- if i set 5-5-5-15 and don't enter any value in the tRD (leave it as Auto), and Turbo option is not selected,
then system boot with 5-5-5-15 and a very loose sub-timings... and the Performance Level will be 9-10 or 11.
and this is where you will need Memset program all the ways, both the sub-timings and the Performance Level will need to be adjusted within Windows..

--- if i set 5-5-5-15 tRD=5 (and leave the rest to Auto), and the Turbo option is not selected,
then system boot with 5-5-5-15 and a very loose sub-timings, however, the Performance Level will be 5.
in this case, you can use Memset to working on all the sub-timings.

--- if i set 5-5-5-15 tRD=5 (and leave the rest to Auto), and the Turbo option is also selected,
then system boot with 5-5-5-15 and all of the the sub-timings are (by far) already optimized by the MCH,
and the Performance Level will be 5. and in this case, the Memset almost has no use, well it can still be useful, to tight up a few sub-timings, but it does not seem to help as much as before, since the Performance Level is already at 5.

PangingJr

Lowfat,

here's i just booted up Windows 507x7 with 5:6 DDR2-1217, 5-5-5-15 tRD=6 and Performance Enhance as Turbo in BIOS, then by having these settings set in BIOS, and when i was in Windows the Memset would not help much any more, and this since the Performance Level 6 was the limit on my hardwares in this CPU FSB vs. DRAM timings, so i could not lower the Performance Level any more.

now, when i change the precessor over with a higher mulitplier than 7x, then i will check it again and see if i would get at almost the same results with only something at 416 or below CPU FSB and with 2:3.



try it without Memset, Lowfat.

Grace

Don't you guys think that you got kinda off-topic here?

Let's split this to a more proper thread. You can continue the discussion here.

ChaosMinionX

All through posting that, I sorta wondered the same thing.... haha

Some more results coming on this today or tomorrow as well


DDR2 1250 5-5-5-15-4-35-4-4= blazing fast on p35 500x7 1:1

11k read/ 9.1k write/ 9.1k copy 45ns 2.25v

6512mb/s in memtest 86+ 1.7.

PangingJr

500x7 DDR2 1250 with 1:1? are you sure that is not FSB : DRAM = 4:5?

ChaosMinionX