Intel, a bad decision waithing to happen?

BWX · Apr 16, 2003, 02:24 AM

this is an E-mail posted at the Inquirer- here from a guy who thinks Intel's monopoly is going down the toobs. I agree with allot of it- Didn't know about some of it, But it doesn't change the views I already had. I have always liked AMD's best bang for the buck strdegy and always have thought that intel was a little overpriced. What do you think about what this guy says??? Is it true?

By The Letterman: Wednesday 16 April 2003, 00:39

A BAD DAY to be in marketing.
In this race, look who keeps falling down:

Intel, hoping to steal AMD's Opteron thunder, days before the Opteron release, produce a great new workstation chipset.

But the Processor contains a flaw...

This is typical of Intel when faced with competition. They push to get products out early and fall down every time.

AMD had a 233mmx processor, Intel had a 200mmx processor. Intel's push to get the PII released on it's proprietary slot prevented them from finding the floating point bug.

AMD had the Athlon, 50mhz faster than the PIII, at a better price. Intel needed a fast, low priced version of the i820 chipset that used SDRAM instead of RDRAM. The Memory Translator Hub had a flaw and 3,000,000 motherboards were recalled.

AMD was pushing 1.2 GHZ, Intel over clocked the 1 Ghz PIII to 1.13 Ghz but had to recall them a month later. This was a beautiful example of a paper launch, because the recall affected less than 200 customers.

With the failure of the 1.13 Ghz PIII, The Pentium 4 was pushed to early release. The processor was available for 6 weeks before any motherboards were released. Although no buggy chipsets made it to market, the delay was widely reported to be due to a flaw in the chipset.

Competition with Nvidia's dual channel nForce2 for AMD forced Intel to produce a dual channel chipset of their own, Granite bay. Granite bay was released for the holiday rush as an interim solution while waiting for Canterwood. Granite bay has a flawed AGP implementation, but no recall was offered. If you want Dual Channel with AGP 8x, you buy an Nforce2 or wait until Canterwood.

Well, Canterwood is here as a high end workstation chipset along with the 3.0 Ghz 800mhz fsb Pentium 4, and it arrived in typical Intel style, flawed. Interestingly, despite Intel halting shipments to the channel, the channel is full of 3.0 Ghz Pentium 4s. What happens to the customers that jump on it now? Do they get a replacement or is this another case of Granite bay style buyer beware? It is interesting that Canterwood is positioned as a workstation chipset. A typical product release would cover the complete market range from budget to high end solutions. Especially considering that Springdale is the same chip sans memory bypass. In retrospect, June would have been a better launch date for both chipsets from a technical standpoint since it is certainly not ready now. Perhaps Serverworks' workstation chipset for Opteron got Intel a little spooked. Marketing calling the shots instead of the engineers?

But Intel machines are much more stable than AMD machines right? Obviously not. The only good Intel chipset in recent memory is the E7501, which apparently only served to upset their previously exclusive partner, Serverworks.

But they run cooler right?

68w maximum for a Barton cored Athlon. 74w average for the 3.06 Pentium 4

But Intel is compatible with more software, right?

Yeah, sure, just take a look at Intel's list of games incompatible with another one of Intel's buggy chipsets, The 845GL. Extreme Graphics. Yeah, extremely bad graphics!

But Intel has Hyperthreading!

1 x 3.06 Pentium 4 costs $468 2 x AthlonMP 2600s cost $426

Why buy one processor that is pretending to be two processors when you can get two actual processors for less money?

But Intel has SSE2. That exclusive advantage will be gone on the 22 of April.

But, but, but. No, No, No.

Intel's monopoly has proven to be quite brittle, cracking under the slightest competitive pressure. I do not trust their technical prowess when they are under pressure because it has become so obvious that their marketing department is making technical decisions. Processors and chipsets are not like software that can be released as a working beta and patched later. Systems established in the gaming world, where the publishers call the shots and the developers jump, do not work in chip fabrication. It has to be released when it's done, not when the marketing department decides they need to sting the competition.

All this is made worse by what Intel does to the market as a whole, when they are not doing well. Intel's missteps have had a tremendous impact on the industry, destroying consumer and investor confidence. At the end of 2000, Craig Barret warned "This was a year of record annual revenue and earnings yet, slowing economic conditions impacted fourth quarter growth and are causing near-term uncertainty." He was faced with AMD going from 10% market share to 34% market share in a year. Wall street took Barret's word, as gospel, that the entire market was in decline and not just Intel's market share. Intel is a market bellwether so the market did drop, just so Intel would not have to admit that their missteps and AMD's superb execution allowed AMD to grab market share. Nasty business. Intel has a sub-standard product and they are reckless with their power.

The market is now better, all things considered, having for the most part recovered from Craig's fraudulent statement. Everyone but AMD is posting profits again, that due mostly to Intel spending down their 10 Billion dollar cash reserve they acquired by lying to their customers and producing junk silicon. 10 Billion dollars buys plenty of predatory pricing. AMD will be fine. The industry has rallied, like it never has before, around Opteron. The future is bright with crazy fast, low priced computers, but only as long as we have two robust competitors in the processor segment. As much as I want Opteron and Athlon 64 to succeed, I would not want x86-64 to be a knockout punch for Intel's glass jaw. AMD might play nice for a while but it would not be long before the prices on their top processors climb into the thousand dollar plus range like Intel's were at the height of their monopoly. It is good to know that Intel has yamhill or *asdf waiting in the wings to insure that when x86-64 is in it's prime, Intel might have a more competent response than they have historically shown.

Jason Pippin

Vampyromaniac · Apr 16, 2003, 03:25 AM

Lol, I wouldn't start engraving Intel's tombstone just yet

They have been around for a long time,
and even with all the mistakes they've made,
still managed to keep the upper hand.
I think as long as you only see Intels inside of
IBMs, Gateways, and Dells (hehe, except for mine

),
that Intel will still be around for a long time.

BWX · Apr 16, 2003, 03:29 AM

How much longer must I have a Radeon 7200 (166/166)? . . . hehe, I have a plan in the works . . . .

I'm fanangle my way into a 9700pro tonight!! Yippeeeee!

Vampyromaniac · Apr 16, 2003, 03:40 AM

[psst . . .] as long as Amazon cooperates . . . I hope to have a shiny new card in the next few weeks [/psst]

BWX · Apr 16, 2003, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vampyromaniac
[psst . . .] as long as Amazon cooperates . . . I hope to have a shiny new card in the next few weeks [/psst]

Sweet, good luck- I just got really lucky with an RMA tonight- full refund, so putting that towards 9700pro ----I'm getting mine for 120 dollars+ shipping out of pocket- I'm so psyched

toddsmack2k · Apr 16, 2003, 09:51 AM

pssst..can you give us any more details....... I hope it works out for ya bud you deserve it!

The_Neon_Cowboy · Apr 16, 2003, 10:51 AM

Vampyromaniac · Apr 16, 2003, 09:37 PM

[psst]
I really don't wanna talk about it too much, and risk jinxing it
Happened the last time I was about to buy a new card . . .
I was all hyped up about it, and RIGHT when I was about to buy it,
I got the rug pulled out from under me
. . . hence all the whispering, hehe
[/psst]

Lol, this got off-topic real fast!

BWX · Apr 16, 2003, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vampyromaniac
[psst]
I really don't wanna talk about it too much, and risk jinxing it
Happened the last time I was about to buy a new card . . .
I was all hyped up about it, and RIGHT when I was about to buy it,
I got the rug pulled out from under me
. . . hence all the whispering, hehe
[/psst]

Lol, this got off-topic real fast!

Shhhhhh, be bewwy bewwy qwiet--- it's video card hunting season.........

toddsmack2k · Apr 17, 2003, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vampyromaniac
[psst]
I really don't wanna talk about it too much, and risk jinxing it
Happened the last time I was about to buy a new card . . .
I was all hyped up about it, and RIGHT when I was about to buy it,
I got the rug pulled out from under me
. . . hence all the whispering, hehe
[/psst]

Lol, this got off-topic real fast!

I got ya shhhh.........

merry · Apr 17, 2003, 06:32 AM

What? Can you speak up for us older folk to hear...

BWX · Apr 17, 2003, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by merry
What? Can you speak up for us older folk to hear...

SSHHH!!!! You'll scare away all the video cards!!!

toddsmack2k · Apr 17, 2003, 06:38 AM

HUH?

BWX · Apr 17, 2003, 06:53 AM

lol

merry · Apr 18, 2003, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BWX232
SSHHH!!!! You'll scare away all the video cards!!!

Ha? Video cars?

~~WyreTheWolf~~ · Apr 19, 2003, 04:04 AM

Wyre stalks out of the shadows... "shhhh... quiet down out here... you are scaring off all the game!" Wyre slowely, and silently stalks back into the depths of the shadows....

BWX · Apr 19, 2003, 04:21 AM

Even though I'm so tired I am seeing spots, let me explain-- the joke--- for merry---

me-
How much longer must I have a Radeon 7200 (166/166)? . . . hehe, I have a plan in the works . . . .

I'm fanangle my way into a 9700pro tonight!! Yippeeeee!

Vamp-

[psst . . .] as long as Amazon cooperates . . . I hope to have a shiny new card in the next few weeks [/psst]

me-
Sweet, good luck- I just got really lucky with an RMA tonight- full refund, so putting that towards 9700pro ----I'm getting mine for 120 dollars+ shipping out of pocket- I'm so psyched

todd-
pssst..can you give us any more details....... I hope it works out for ya bud you deserve it

neon-
smiley's

vamp-
[psst]
I really don't wanna talk about it too much, and risk jinxing it
Happened the last time I was about to buy a new card . . .
I was all hyped up about it, and RIGHT when I was about to buy it,
I got the rug pulled out from under me
. . . hence all the whispering, hehe
[/psst]

Lol, this got off-topic real fast!

me- after the missing post that said something in really big yelling letters--

Shhhhhh, be bewwy bewwy qwiet--- it's video card hunting season.........

todd-
I got ya shhhh........

merry-
What? Can you speak up for us older folk to hear...

tod-
.HUH?

Oh F-it-- every time I look down there to take a quote the post orders are all jumbled-- you ge tthe picture- silly joke--

Be bewwy bewwy kwwiet- its wabbit season.....

remember that?

Apr 16, 2003, 02:24 AM	#1
BWX Spinal Tapped Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USNY Posts: 19,569 Rep Power: 90 System Specs	Intel, a bad decision waithing to happen? this is an E-mail posted at the Inquirer- here from a guy who thinks Intel's monopoly is going down the toobs. I agree with allot of it- Didn't know about some of it, But it doesn't change the views I already had. I have always liked AMD's best bang for the buck strdegy and always have thought that intel was a little overpriced. What do you think about what this guy says??? Is it true? By The Letterman: Wednesday 16 April 2003, 00:39 A BAD DAY to be in marketing. In this race, look who keeps falling down: Intel, hoping to steal AMD's Opteron thunder, days before the Opteron release, produce a great new workstation chipset. But the Processor contains a flaw... This is typical of Intel when faced with competition. They push to get products out early and fall down every time. AMD had a 233mmx processor, Intel had a 200mmx processor. Intel's push to get the PII released on it's proprietary slot prevented them from finding the floating point bug. AMD had the Athlon, 50mhz faster than the PIII, at a better price. Intel needed a fast, low priced version of the i820 chipset that used SDRAM instead of RDRAM. The Memory Translator Hub had a flaw and 3,000,000 motherboards were recalled. AMD was pushing 1.2 GHZ, Intel over clocked the 1 Ghz PIII to 1.13 Ghz but had to recall them a month later. This was a beautiful example of a paper launch, because the recall affected less than 200 customers. With the failure of the 1.13 Ghz PIII, The Pentium 4 was pushed to early release. The processor was available for 6 weeks before any motherboards were released. Although no buggy chipsets made it to market, the delay was widely reported to be due to a flaw in the chipset. Competition with Nvidia's dual channel nForce2 for AMD forced Intel to produce a dual channel chipset of their own, Granite bay. Granite bay was released for the holiday rush as an interim solution while waiting for Canterwood. Granite bay has a flawed AGP implementation, but no recall was offered. If you want Dual Channel with AGP 8x, you buy an Nforce2 or wait until Canterwood. Well, Canterwood is here as a high end workstation chipset along with the 3.0 Ghz 800mhz fsb Pentium 4, and it arrived in typical Intel style, flawed. Interestingly, despite Intel halting shipments to the channel, the channel is full of 3.0 Ghz Pentium 4s. What happens to the customers that jump on it now? Do they get a replacement or is this another case of Granite bay style buyer beware? It is interesting that Canterwood is positioned as a workstation chipset. A typical product release would cover the complete market range from budget to high end solutions. Especially considering that Springdale is the same chip sans memory bypass. In retrospect, June would have been a better launch date for both chipsets from a technical standpoint since it is certainly not ready now. Perhaps Serverworks' workstation chipset for Opteron got Intel a little spooked. Marketing calling the shots instead of the engineers? But Intel machines are much more stable than AMD machines right? Obviously not. The only good Intel chipset in recent memory is the E7501, which apparently only served to upset their previously exclusive partner, Serverworks. But they run cooler right? 68w maximum for a Barton cored Athlon. 74w average for the 3.06 Pentium 4 But Intel is compatible with more software, right? Yeah, sure, just take a look at Intel's list of games incompatible with another one of Intel's buggy chipsets, The 845GL. Extreme Graphics. Yeah, extremely bad graphics! But Intel has Hyperthreading! 1 x 3.06 Pentium 4 costs $468 2 x AthlonMP 2600s cost $426 Why buy one processor that is pretending to be two processors when you can get two actual processors for less money? But Intel has SSE2. That exclusive advantage will be gone on the 22 of April. But, but, but. No, No, No. Intel's monopoly has proven to be quite brittle, cracking under the slightest competitive pressure. I do not trust their technical prowess when they are under pressure because it has become so obvious that their marketing department is making technical decisions. Processors and chipsets are not like software that can be released as a working beta and patched later. Systems established in the gaming world, where the publishers call the shots and the developers jump, do not work in chip fabrication. It has to be released when it's done, not when the marketing department decides they need to sting the competition. All this is made worse by what Intel does to the market as a whole, when they are not doing well. Intel's missteps have had a tremendous impact on the industry, destroying consumer and investor confidence. At the end of 2000, Craig Barret warned "This was a year of record annual revenue and earnings yet, slowing economic conditions impacted fourth quarter growth and are causing near-term uncertainty." He was faced with AMD going from 10% market share to 34% market share in a year. Wall street took Barret's word, as gospel, that the entire market was in decline and not just Intel's market share. Intel is a market bellwether so the market did drop, just so Intel would not have to admit that their missteps and AMD's superb execution allowed AMD to grab market share. Nasty business. Intel has a sub-standard product and they are reckless with their power. The market is now better, all things considered, having for the most part recovered from Craig's fraudulent statement. Everyone but AMD is posting profits again, that due mostly to Intel spending down their 10 Billion dollar cash reserve they acquired by lying to their customers and producing junk silicon. 10 Billion dollars buys plenty of predatory pricing. AMD will be fine. The industry has rallied, like it never has before, around Opteron. The future is bright with crazy fast, low priced computers, but only as long as we have two robust competitors in the processor segment. As much as I want Opteron and Athlon 64 to succeed, I would not want x86-64 to be a knockout punch for Intel's glass jaw. AMD might play nice for a while but it would not be long before the prices on their top processors climb into the thousand dollar plus range like Intel's were at the height of their monopoly. It is good to know that Intel has yamhill or *asdf waiting in the wings to insure that when x86-64 is in it's prime, Intel might have a more competent response than they have historically shown. Jason Pippin

Apr 16, 2003, 03:25 AM	#2
Vampyromaniac confutatis maledictis Join Date: May 2002 Location: somewhere dark Posts: 5,974 Rep Power: 60 System Specs	Lol, I wouldn't start engraving Intel's tombstone just yet They have been around for a long time, and even with all the mistakes they've made, still managed to keep the upper hand. I think as long as you only see Intels inside of IBMs, Gateways, and Dells (hehe, except for mine ), that Intel will still be around for a long time. __________________ *Digitalis 3.3* Athlon 64 3000 // ASUS K8V SE Deluxe // 1024MB PC3200 (2-2-2-10 1T) ATI All-In-Wonder 9700 Pro // 20" Dell 2005FPW (DVI) M-Audio Revo 7.1 + Philips Acoustic Edge // Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 320/16 Western Digital WD3200KS + 120/8 Seagate 7200.7 NEC ND-3550A 16x DVD±RW + Lite-On 52x24x CD-RW Antec Sonata case // 480W Antec TruePower personal bests \|\| Aq'3: 46796 \| 3D'01: 20461 \| 3D'03: 6336 \| 3D'05: 2677 \| PC'04: 4605 \| PC'02: 7691,9092,1250

Apr 16, 2003, 03:29 AM	#3
BWX Spinal Tapped Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USNY Posts: 19,569 Rep Power: 90 System Specs	How much longer must I have a Radeon 7200 (166/166)? . . . hehe, I have a plan in the works . . . . I'm fanangle my way into a 9700pro tonight!! Yippeeeee! __________________ One Big Ass Mistake America

Apr 16, 2003, 03:40 AM	#4
Vampyromaniac confutatis maledictis Join Date: May 2002 Location: somewhere dark Posts: 5,974 Rep Power: 60 System Specs	[psst . . .] as long as Amazon cooperates . . . I hope to have a shiny new card in the next few weeks [/psst] __________________ *Digitalis 3.3* Athlon 64 3000 // ASUS K8V SE Deluxe // 1024MB PC3200 (2-2-2-10 1T) ATI All-In-Wonder 9700 Pro // 20" Dell 2005FPW (DVI) M-Audio Revo 7.1 + Philips Acoustic Edge // Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 320/16 Western Digital WD3200KS + 120/8 Seagate 7200.7 NEC ND-3550A 16x DVD±RW + Lite-On 52x24x CD-RW Antec Sonata case // 480W Antec TruePower personal bests \|\| Aq'3: 46796 \| 3D'01: 20461 \| 3D'03: 6336 \| 3D'05: 2677 \| PC'04: 4605 \| PC'02: 7691,9092,1250

Apr 16, 2003, 09:51 AM	#6
toddsmack2k It Never..... Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,174 Rep Power: 0	pssst..can you give us any more details....... I hope it works out for ya bud you deserve it! __________________ [color=blue]*Bleeding From the Inside Pouring Out, The* *DriverHeaven* Spiral, We Shall Never Let Go Of.[/color]

Apr 16, 2003, 10:51 AM	#7
The_Neon_Cowboy DriverHeaven Extreme Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 16,135 Rep Power: 77 System Specs	__________________

Apr 16, 2003, 09:37 PM	#8
Vampyromaniac confutatis maledictis Join Date: May 2002 Location: somewhere dark Posts: 5,974 Rep Power: 60 System Specs	thanks, todd [psst] I really don't wanna talk about it too much, and risk jinxing it Happened the last time I was about to buy a new card . . . I was all hyped up about it, and RIGHT when I was about to buy it, I got the rug pulled out from under me . . . hence all the whispering, hehe [/psst] Lol, this got off-topic real fast! __________________ *Digitalis 3.3* Athlon 64 3000 // ASUS K8V SE Deluxe // 1024MB PC3200 (2-2-2-10 1T) ATI All-In-Wonder 9700 Pro // 20" Dell 2005FPW (DVI) M-Audio Revo 7.1 + Philips Acoustic Edge // Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 320/16 Western Digital WD3200KS + 120/8 Seagate 7200.7 NEC ND-3550A 16x DVD±RW + Lite-On 52x24x CD-RW Antec Sonata case // 480W Antec TruePower personal bests \|\| Aq'3: 46796 \| 3D'01: 20461 \| 3D'03: 6336 \| 3D'05: 2677 \| PC'04: 4605 \| PC'02: 7691,9092,1250

Apr 17, 2003, 06:32 AM	#11
merry gargouille Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 962 Rep Power: 0	What? Can you speak up for us older folk to hear... __________________ There is a war between the ones who say there is a war and the ones who say there isn't. ~~Leonard Cohen

Apr 17, 2003, 06:38 AM	#13
toddsmack2k It Never..... Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,174 Rep Power: 0	HUH? __________________ [color=blue]*Bleeding From the Inside Pouring Out, The* *DriverHeaven* Spiral, We Shall Never Let Go Of.[/color]

Apr 17, 2003, 06:53 AM	#14
BWX Spinal Tapped Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USNY Posts: 19,569 Rep Power: 90 System Specs	lol __________________ One Big Ass Mistake America

Apr 19, 2003, 04:04 AM	#16
~~WyreTheWolf~~ Wolfish Bastard Join Date: May 2002 Location: Cave; Ozark Mountains Posts: 2,111 Rep Power: 0	Wyre stalks out of the shadows... "shhhh... quiet down out here... you are scaring off all the game!" Wyre slowely, and silently stalks back into the depths of the shadows....

Apr 19, 2003, 04:21 AM	#17
BWX Spinal Tapped Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USNY Posts: 19,569 Rep Power: 90 System Specs	Even though I'm so tired I am seeing spots, let me explain-- the joke--- for merry--- me- How much longer must I have a Radeon 7200 (166/166)? . . . hehe, I have a plan in the works . . . . I'm fanangle my way into a 9700pro tonight!! Yippeeeee! Vamp- [psst . . .] as long as Amazon cooperates . . . I hope to have a shiny new card in the next few weeks [/psst] me- Sweet, good luck- I just got really lucky with an RMA tonight- full refund, so putting that towards 9700pro ----I'm getting mine for 120 dollars+ shipping out of pocket- I'm so psyched todd- pssst..can you give us any more details....... I hope it works out for ya bud you deserve it neon- smiley's vamp- [psst] I really don't wanna talk about it too much, and risk jinxing it Happened the last time I was about to buy a new card . . . I was all hyped up about it, and RIGHT when I was about to buy it, I got the rug pulled out from under me . . . hence all the whispering, hehe [/psst] Lol, this got off-topic real fast! me- after the missing post that said something in really big yelling letters-- Shhhhhh, be bewwy bewwy qwiet--- it's video card hunting season......... todd- I got ya shhhh........ merry- What? Can you speak up for us older folk to hear... tod- .HUH? Oh F-it-- every time I look down there to take a quote the post orders are all jumbled-- you ge tthe picture- silly joke-- Be bewwy bewwy kwwiet- its wabbit season..... remember that? __________________ One Big Ass Mistake America